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France angry with Poland after it scraps Airbus deal

Vergennes

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LMAO,what a bunch of backstabbers.
We always knew they wanted the american one because of political reasons.
The Caracal was chosen as it was the helicopter that met most of the criterias imposed by the poles.
Airbus with ToT,was ready to open a local plant to produce the helicopters for the polish army's needs and international needs. Airbus opened in Lodz a research center. Their reasons are just B.S.
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The poles were among the one pressuring us not to deliver the Mistral ships to Russia and that our chances to win this tender were lower. And we are asked to deploy aircrafts,troops to Poland and to "die for Dantzig" in case the russians attack.
European defense,cooperation,my @ss. @Taygibay @Louiq XIV
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France reacted angrily on Friday after Poland scrapped a multi-billion-dollar helicopter deal with Airbus, warning it would review defense cooperation with its NATO ally and cancelling a presidential visit to Warsaw.

Poland had agreed to buy 50 Airbus utility helicopters in April 2015 for 13.5 billion zlotys ($3.5 billion) as part of efforts to modernize its military at a time of tensions with Russia.

Its previous centrist government, beaten by the Law and Justice (PiS) party in elections last October, had agreed the provisional deal, but on Oct. 4 the new authorities said they were scrapping the contract altogether.

Members of the new euroskeptic government have said they would rather see the deal awarded to a company that could build the helicopters locally.

"The Franco-Polish bilateral relationship will undeniably be extremely affected by this decision," a French source close to the matter said.

"The contract's cancellation will force us to review all the defense cooperation that we have with Poland and see what can be maintained and sadly what can't in the current context."

Without indicating which investments, the source added that the French government, which holds roughly 11 percent in Airbus, would advise the firm to review its strategy in the country, including investments that had already been made.

A source in the French presidency had earlier said President Francois Hollande had decided to cancel a visit to Warsaw next week for intergovernmental consultations, in protest.

In a speech on Friday, Prime Minister Manuel Valls took a swipe at Poland at a time when the European Union is trying to reinforce its common defense policy in the face of growing concerns over Russian foreign policy, Islamic militancy and the refugee crisis.

"Poland is a big country, but questions need to be asked of Poland, notably its defense industry, after the choices that have just been made," Valls said.

"As far as France is concerned, we're worried because negotiations had started, but also for the very concept of European defense."

Polish media has reported that Warsaw has already begun negotiations with U.S. firm Lockheed Martin's Sikorsky, manufacturer of locally-produced Black Hawk helicopters that could be purchased by the Polish army as soon as this year.


As well as boosting Poland's defense industry, buying Sikorsky helicopters could further strengthen Warsaw's ties with Washington, already its closest ally.

"Before we had a center-right platform that understood it was in Poland's interest to go beyond the U.S. axis and have a bilateral relationship with France and Germany," a French diplomatic source said.

"But clearly the PiS doesn't understand the benefits for Poland, which are frankly huge in its European arena."

Poland’s government spokesman and the defense and economy ministries were not immediately available for comment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-airbus-france-idUSKCN1271ZB
 
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LMAO,what a bunch of backstabbers.
We always knew they wanted the american one because of political reasons.
The Caracal was chosen as it was the helicopter that met most of the criterias imposed by the poles.
Airbus with ToT,was ready to open a local plant to produce the helicopters for the polish army's needs and international needs. Airbus opened in Lodz a research center. Their reasons are just B.S.
-
The poles were among the one pressuring us not to deliver the Mistral ships to Russia and that our chances to win this tender were lower. And we are asked to deploy aircrafts,troops to Poland and to "die for Dantzig" in case the russians attack.
European defense,cooperation,my @ss. @Taygibay @Louiq XIV
-

France reacted angrily on Friday after Poland scrapped a multi-billion-dollar helicopter deal with Airbus, warning it would review defense cooperation with its NATO ally and cancelling a presidential visit to Warsaw.

Poland had agreed to buy 50 Airbus utility helicopters in April 2015 for 13.5 billion zlotys ($3.5 billion) as part of efforts to modernize its military at a time of tensions with Russia.

Its previous centrist government, beaten by the Law and Justice (PiS) party in elections last October, had agreed the provisional deal, but on Oct. 4 the new authorities said they were scrapping the contract altogether.

Members of the new euroskeptic government have said they would rather see the deal awarded to a company that could build the helicopters locally.

"The Franco-Polish bilateral relationship will undeniably be extremely affected by this decision," a French source close to the matter said.

"The contract's cancellation will force us to review all the defense cooperation that we have with Poland and see what can be maintained and sadly what can't in the current context."

Without indicating which investments, the source added that the French government, which holds roughly 11 percent in Airbus, would advise the firm to review its strategy in the country, including investments that had already been made.

A source in the French presidency had earlier said President Francois Hollande had decided to cancel a visit to Warsaw next week for intergovernmental consultations, in protest.

In a speech on Friday, Prime Minister Manuel Valls took a swipe at Poland at a time when the European Union is trying to reinforce its common defense policy in the face of growing concerns over Russian foreign policy, Islamic militancy and the refugee crisis.

"Poland is a big country, but questions need to be asked of Poland, notably its defense industry, after the choices that have just been made," Valls said.

"As far as France is concerned, we're worried because negotiations had started, but also for the very concept of European defense."

Polish media has reported that Warsaw has already begun negotiations with U.S. firm Lockheed Martin's Sikorsky, manufacturer of locally-produced Black Hawk helicopters that could be purchased by the Polish army as soon as this year.


As well as boosting Poland's defense industry, buying Sikorsky helicopters could further strengthen Warsaw's ties with Washington, already its closest ally.

"Before we had a center-right platform that understood it was in Poland's interest to go beyond the U.S. axis and have a bilateral relationship with France and Germany," a French diplomatic source said.

"But clearly the PiS doesn't understand the benefits for Poland, which are frankly huge in its European arena."

Poland’s government spokesman and the defense and economy ministries were not immediately available for comment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-airbus-france-idUSKCN1271ZB
They actually need Political Support that America can provide. Many European Companies lose contract in spite of having better products due to Powerful US backing of its companies.
 
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LMAO,what a bunch of backstabbers.
We always knew they wanted the american one because of political reasons.
The Caracal was chosen as it was the helicopter that met most of the criterias imposed by the poles.
Airbus with ToT,was ready to open a local plant to produce the helicopters for the polish army's needs and international needs. Airbus opened in Lodz a research center. Their reasons are just B.S.
-
The poles were among the one pressuring us not to deliver the Mistral ships to Russia and that our chances to win this tender were lower. And we are asked to deploy aircrafts,troops to Poland and to "die for Dantzig" in case the russians attack.
European defense,cooperation,my @ss. @Taygibay @Louiq XIV
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Your country and Germany have to start with unified defence first, others will trust and join in after that. Until then all these fringe countries bordering Russia will trust the US more than the EU.

Only between France and Germany there's over 200 ships, over 1000 aircraft, over 250k men. You lot start your cooperation, the others will fall in.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/8O...-it-is-so-big-that-it-doesnt-need-the-wo.html
India is lucky that it is so big that it does not need the world.
 
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Wow, that was not nice.
 
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European defense,cooperation,my @ss. @Taygibay @Louiq XIV
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I agree with you. This shows what Europe is all about : COMPETITION ! and nothing else.

We don't need unified defence right now we are strong enough anyway. I don't see any possibility for a conflict between Europeans countries soon and if things were to turn bad with a country elsewhere we would gather immediately whatever the defence agreement we may have.

As we say in French "nécessité fait loi".
 
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Poland allready manufactures Black Hawks in the country so it's an obvious choice.

Plus,a few day ago I just say a few inside pictures of the Russian Armata tank...with a Thales Catherine thermovision image LCD

ZxajB.jpg


Plus the German Northstream 2....So...here we are...you know....trust and all...there is none with Western European partners.

And cancelling an official state visit in a fellow EU country over arms deals ? Tht sounds like arm twisting to me...
 
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Told you 9 months ago dont be happy with right wing government they a bit crazy:yay:I was nearly shure they will scrap the deal looking how they wanted to stop all deals of previous government.

That is the real face of the poles, my friend.They done that just to show their love to US, I guess you are not ''anti - Russia'' enough in their eyes.

Yes and the real face off russia is to seend green men backstabe from inside and shot down passenger planes:welcome:

The poles were among the one pressuring us not to deliver the Mistral ships to Russia and that our chances to win this tender were lower. And we are asked to deploy aircrafts,troops to Poland and to "die for Dantzig" in case the russians attack.

Oh please stop this i know after ww2 how you help allies we would be better joining hitler than UK France alliance:omghaha:
 
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Poland allready manufactures Black Hawks in the country so it's an obvious choice.

Plus,a few day ago I just say a few inside pictures of the Russian Armata tank...with a Thales Catherine thermovision image LCD

ZxajB.jpg


Plus the German Northstream 2....So...here we are...you know....trust and all...there is none with Western European partners.

And cancelling an official state visit in a fellow EU country over arms deals ? Tht sounds like arm twisting to me...

i agree with my friend flamer on this one.
Poland already produces black hawk helicopters locally. so it was long a viable choice for them to purchase this locally made proven helicopter. In fact, it should have been a non event.

Additionally, we all know Poland feels threatened by Russia probably more than any E.U country at present and they generally resent Russian influence and actions in the balkans, Ukraine, georgia etc. They know that if shit was to ever hit the fan with Russia,then i dont think France and Germany will be forthcoming in supporting Poland unconditionally against Russia, since France and Germany have no real conflict of interests per se towards Russia and they also have huge economic interests in Russia, contrary to eastern European countries and U.S(or even U.K). Obviously Poland will prefer the U.S anyday for strategic and security reasons. Cant blame them, any country in their shoes will do the same, including France.:agree:
all about national interests dude. That's how Geo politics works.

Plus cancelling official visit because they lost a military deal is kinda childish to be honest. Even though its understandable, as emotions often run high when you lose a huge defence deal. similar to how or PM,political and defence establishment/media felt when we lost the Indian MMRCA deal. Angry Monkey modeeeeee.....lool :taz:
 
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Poland allready manufactures Black Hawks in the country so it's an obvious choice.

Plus,a few day ago I just say a few inside pictures of the Russian Armata tank...with a Thales Catherine thermovision image LCD

ZxajB.jpg


Plus the German Northstream 2....So...here we are...you know....trust and all...there is none with Western European partners.

And cancelling an official state visit in a fellow EU country over arms deals ? Tht sounds like arm twisting to me...

If they are willing to source parts for their latest tank from the "evil" West instead of from their "friend"' China...that tells me who they are REALLY worried about.
 
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Poland allready manufactures Black Hawks in the country so it's an obvious choice.

Plus,a few day ago I just say a few inside pictures of the Russian Armata tank...with a Thales Catherine thermovision image LCD

ZxajB.jpg


Plus the German Northstream 2....So...here we are...you know....trust and all...there is none with Western European partners.

And cancelling an official state visit in a fellow EU country over arms deals ? Tht sounds like arm twisting to me...

Bud,list me major equipments we sold to Russia a part from some Thales sights ? Submarines ? Tanks ? Missiles ? Aircrafts ?

Oh please stop this i know after ww2 how you help allies we would be better joining hitler than UK France alliance:omghaha:

If you could answer to these questions ;

Look at the geography of Poland,how can french and british armies get to Poland ?
How do we do to keep our troops supplied ?
How did you expect french and british forces to be in the middle of the soviet and german war machines ?
How do we retreat our troops in case everything goes wrong ?

Not adding the reluctance to go to war for many reasons such as the WW1 experience.

So,you see.

And what the US did for you ?
It's not the US that are giving you billions of €,right ?
 
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Bud,list me major equipments we sold to Russia a part from some Thales sights ? Submarines ? Tanks ? Missiles ? Aircrafts ?



If you could answer to these questions ;

Look at the geography of Poland,how can french and british armies get to Poland ?
How do we do to keep our troops supplied ?
How did you expect french and british forces to be in the middle of the soviet and german war machines ?
How do we retreat our troops in case everything goes wrong ?

Not adding the reluctance to go to war for many reasons such as the WW1 experience.

So,you see.

And what the US did for you ?
It's not the US that are giving you billions of €,right ?


calm down mon pote Vergennes. Losing a defence deal doesn't means the end of the world.There will be many others to come elsewhere.
You forget as i said before that countries are always after their national interests FIRST AND FOREMOST. Poland and almost all eastern European countries have different set of interests with that of France and Germany. Its also for this reason we always argued that this E:U Army fallacy will NEVER EVER WORK.
If Russia(hypothetically) was to pull another Crimea or Ukraine on say Poland/Romania or Bulgaria, You think France and Germany will risk intervening UNDER a so called E.U Army? lol France and Germany have no real interests in doing so, In fact if not for U.S and British massive pressure, France and Germany would never have sanctioned Russia over its actions in Crimea and eastern Ukraine(both countries are still the ones pushing the most for even those minor E.U sanctions to be lifted) in the first place, much less take an aggressive military posture towards Russia under an E.U Army. lol It wont be much different under an illusionary E.U army. lol:lol:

Don't get me wrong though, i am not blaming France and Germany for this, since they are only after their own national interests, which is normal as a country, i'm just making a point that different sets of countries with radically different set of interests cant be part of a unified common military structure for a long period of time, its bound to fail and we know it, reason we have been the most vocal opponent against this fallacy which will only duplicate and undermine NATO who has been the cornerstone of Europe's defence for over half a century. If anything E:U countries should put more resources/effort in boasting their NATO presence/contribution and commitments. :) If they cant even do that in NATO then what chance have they even got of doing so under an E.U army? lol It will just be an opportunity for E.U Bureaucrats to build another lavish fancy building to chill and get on with their bureaucracy. lol
 
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Bud,list me major equipments we sold to Russia a part from some Thales sights ? Submarines ? Tanks ? Missiles ? Aircrafts ?

It's the little things that make the world go round and French parts in Russia's new tank sends a powerful message.As for the German North Stream and North Stream 2 these are betrayals of monumental importance ,gravely affecting Poland's national security.

Now,the US has the missile shield in Pol and Rou.Apart from that ,the new NATO brigade in Romania will be formed from Rou,Bulgarian,Polish and......ofcourse,US troops.French/German troops....well,..."crickets".

You have to see this from our perspective to,and it's not a pretty image.Also, did you know that recently Germany asked for the exclusion of Romania in the future talks with Russia about Transnistria and Moldova?.Another slap and danger to our national security.
 
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It's the little things that make the world go round and French parts in Russia's new tank sends a powerful message.

It's been a long time since the russians are equipping their tanks (T72M3,T90 and now Armata) with Thales sights.
If I am not wrong,they produce it under license.
I didn't hear Poland complaining about it. It's not the kind of strategical equipments or things endengering Poland's existance or their sovereignty. While the Mistrals,probably yes. They were the one leading the "anti mistral fanclub" to make us suspend the delivery of these ships.

Now,the US has the missile shield in Pol and Rou.Apart from that ,the new NATO brigade in Romania will be formed from Rou,Bulgarian,Polish and......ofcourse,US troops.French/German troops....well,..."crickets".

No offence to our eastern euro friends,but with 34.000 soldiers mobilized for operations at home and abroad,or those stationed abroad and those maintaining our sovereignty over our overseas territories,we are busy with other things,not really having the time to play in eastern Europe and to wait for an hypothetical russian invasion.
Do you think the russians are scared or impressed by 1 brigade ? Maybe by 4 divisions,but not 1 brigade.

It doesn't mean we don't fill our commitments toward our 'allies' when it's our turn.

Mirage2000s deployed alongside polish Mig29 as part of NATO air policing mission in Malbork.

ml.jpg


France is actually policing baltic state's airspace til 2017. 4 Mirage 2000-5F have been deployed from the airbase of Luxeuil-Saint Sauveur to Lithuania.

pop.jpg


Even if countries like Poland or baltic states are nowhere to be seen when France asked for EU countries help...
 
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