FP22 Frigates deal expanded

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Chinese Frigates for the Pakistan Navy

China and Pakistan worked out a $750 million loan to help Pakistan build four F-22P frigates (The News International, September 16, 2004). In 2004, Pakistan negotiated this non-commercial (i.e. low-cost) loan with China for the joint manufacture of naval ships. China and Pakistan have since moved fast to begin work on this project. They have now expanded the original deal to build eight F22P frigates respectively at Hudong Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai, China, and Karachi shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW), Pakistan. The manufacturing cost of each F22P Frigate, which is an improved version of China’s original Type 053H3 Frigate, is $175 million. At this rate, the cost of eight frigates will run at about $1.4 billion.

The first Chinese-built F-22 frigate, named PNS Zulfiqar (Arabic for sword), was delivered to Pakistan on July 30 (The Nation, July 31). A month later, the ship was formally commissioned in the Pakistan Navy fleet in September. Soon after its arrival in July, the ship participated in the Pakistan Navy’s SeaSpark exercises. Of the original four frigates, three were to be built in China and one in Pakistan (Asia Times, July 11, 2007). After the delivery of PNS Zulfiqar, the remaining two ships that are being built in China are expected to be commissioned in the Pakistan Navy fleet by 2010. The fourth ship being built in Pakistan’s Karachi shipyard will be ready by 2013 (Asia Times, July 11, 2007).

The Pakistan Navy describes the F-22P frigate as a Sword Class ship that is equipped with long-range surface-to-surface missiles (SSM) and surface-to-air missiles (SAM), depth charges, torpedoes, the latest 76mm guns, a close-in-weapons system (CIWS), sensors, electronic warfare and an advanced command and control system (The Nation, July 31). The ship has a displacement of 3,000 tons and carries anti-submarine Z9EC helicopters. China has already delivered the first batch of two such helicopters to Pakistan. Although the Pakistan Navy has Sea-King helicopters for anti-submarine operations, it is now acquiring Chinese Z9ECs to enhance its operational capabilities (The Nation, July 31). In addition to building eight frigates, the Sino-Pakistan defense deal includes the upgrading of the Karachi dockyard for indigenous production of a modern surface fleet. The frigates deal is the first of its kind between China and Pakistan, which forges their two navies into a high-level collaboration for boosting their surface fleet.

Ref:
J-10: The New Cornerstone of Sino-Pakistani Defense Cooperation - The Jamestown Foundation


FP22 (4 was origional Number)
We had 6 ships before , and 1 we got from US , and we should get another 2 from US


According to this news we will be getting 4 more from china so we should have

F-22P Zulfiquar class
F-251 PNS Zulfiqar (commissioned)
F-252 PNS Saif (launched)
F-253 PNS Shamsheer (Delivered 19Dec, 2009)
F-254 (under construction)
(4 MORE FRIGATES from China coming in to make total to +8)

F181 PNS Tariq
F182 PNS Babur
F183 PNS Khaibar
F184 PNS Badr
F185 PNS Shah Jahan
F186 PNS Tippu Sultan (+6)

US USS McInerney (FFG-8) (2010)
1 More frigate is to be delivered to us next year ) (+2)

And we have already applied for 6 more ships from USA ...

I think with 16-frigates we should be in good shape , if we can add the German/French subs in deal it would be great

 

[Penguin]

Chinese Frigates for the Pakistan Navy

China and Pakistan worked out a $750 million loan to help Pakistan build four F-22P frigates (The News International, September 16, 2004). In 2004, Pakistan negotiated this non-commercial (i.e. low-cost) loan with China for the joint manufacture of naval ships. China and Pakistan have since moved fast to begin work on this project. They have now expanded the original deal to build eight F22P frigates respectively at Hudong Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai, China, and Karachi shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW), Pakistan. The manufacturing cost of each F22P Frigate, which is an improved version of China’s original Type 053H3 Frigate, is $175 million. At this rate, the cost of eight frigates will run at about $1.4 billion.

The first Chinese-built F-22 frigate, named PNS Zulfiqar (Arabic for sword), was delivered to Pakistan on July 30 (The Nation, July 31). A month later, the ship was formally commissioned in the Pakistan Navy fleet in September. Soon after its arrival in July, the ship participated in the Pakistan Navy’s SeaSpark exercises. Of the original four frigates, three were to be built in China and one in Pakistan (Asia Times, July 11, 2007). After the delivery of PNS Zulfiqar, the remaining two ships that are being built in China are expected to be commissioned in the Pakistan Navy fleet by 2010. The fourth ship being built in Pakistan’s Karachi shipyard will be ready by 2013 (Asia Times, July 11, 2007).

The Pakistan Navy describes the F-22P frigate as a Sword Class ship that is equipped with long-range surface-to-surface missiles (SSM) and surface-to-air missiles (SAM), depth charges, torpedoes, the latest 76mm guns, a close-in-weapons system (CIWS), sensors, electronic warfare and an advanced command and control system (The Nation, July 31). The ship has a displacement of 3,000 tons and carries anti-submarine Z9EC helicopters. China has already delivered the first batch of two such helicopters to Pakistan. Although the Pakistan Navy has Sea-King helicopters for anti-submarine operations, it is now acquiring Chinese Z9ECs to enhance its operational capabilities (The Nation, July 31). In addition to building eight frigates, the Sino-Pakistan defense deal includes the upgrading of the Karachi dockyard for indigenous production of a modern surface fleet. The frigates deal is the first of its kind between China and Pakistan, which forges their two navies into a high-level collaboration for boosting their surface fleet.

Ref:
J-10: The New Cornerstone of Sino-Pakistani Defense Cooperation - The Jamestown Foundation


FP22 (4 was origional Number)
We had 6 ships before , and 1 we got from US , and we should get another 2 from US


According to this news we will be getting 4 more from china so we should have

F-22P Zulfiquar class
F-251 PNS Zulfiqar (commissioned)
F-252 PNS Saif (launched)
F-253 PNS Shamsheer (Delivered 19Dec, 2009)
F-254 (under construction)
(4 MORE FRIGATES from China coming in to make total to +8)

F181 PNS Tariq
F182 PNS Babur
F183 PNS Khaibar
F184 PNS Badr
F185 PNS Shah Jahan
F186 PNS Tippu Sultan (+6)

US USS McInerney (FFG-8) (2010)
1 More frigate is to be delivered to us next year ) (+2)

And we have already applied for 6 more ships from USA ...

I think with 16-frigates we should be in good shape , if we can add the German/French subs in deal it would be great

You are forgetting that the Tariq and consorts are old and will be paid off as new ships come online. There will be no expansion untill the current fleet has been renewed.

 

[pak-yes]

why is pakistan purchasing more and more frigates.pakistan should persuade china to supply us with more subs.

 

[abbasniazi]

Surface ships are as important as subs, besides this, its better to get german and french technology instead of chinese as far as subs are concerned.

We heard that pakistan had transferred the technology to build Agosta 90B from france but i wonder why they didn't built any after the initial three as per agreement.

 

[Conqueror]

Surface ships are as important as subs, besides this, its better to get german and french technology instead of chinese as far as subs are concerned.

We heard that pakistan had transferred the technology to build Agosta 90B from france but i wonder why they didn't built any after the initial three as per agreement.

I had asked this question sometime some time back and I was replied by somebody senior that Pakistan does not have infrastructure to hold TOT of Agosta, although was were provided that but we are still dependent on France for the production of lots of parts.. that means the Production Cost would be approaching close to the better and stealthier subs we are intending to purchase from Germany. Its about Cost-Benefit analysis I guess.

 

[Rank]

Wow! lov it man Pakistan must ask for Hawk Helicopter for Navy + Ships from US....

we need Nuclear Sub also.. So Pakistan also go for Nuclear sub! but State of the Art nuclear sub....

 

[haawk]

just out of curiosity!!!!!some time back there was a post asking if f22p was a bad decision by PN ,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/31387-f-22p-bad-decision-pn.html


the f22p frigates were actually considered as replacements for the f21p

and one of the posts (post 6)in the thread goes as


According to the F-22P's history, The 053-series frigates is China's most successful export warship. To date, one 053H1 was sold to Bangladesh, two to Egypt, and four 053T/053HT were sold to Thailand. Customer assessments of these ships were generally poor. The 053H1 (Jianghu I) ships sold to Bangladesh and Egypt were used and had equipment problems. The stabilizers didn't work, the ship either did not have air conditioning, or those equipped with air conditioning had to be used sparingly to save the generators. The 100 mm gun was hand-loaded and did not have a working fire-control radar. The SSM's were Chinese copies of the Soviet Styx missile, which was obsolete.

When Thailand ordered four new 053 frigates in 1990, China built them to the (then) latest 053H2 (Jianghu III) standard. Two were modified with helicopter decks in the back. Although the price was excellent (2 billion baht each, compared to 8 billion baht for western ships), the Thai Navy complained of quality issues. The interior wiring was exposed and had to be re-wired. The ship's battle damage control system was very limited, with poor quality fire-suppression system and water-tight locks. It's said that if the ship's hull was breached, rapid flooding would lead to loss of ship. The Thai Navy had to spent considerable time and effort to correct some of these issues.
The harsh criticisms lead to many improvements in China's shipbuilding industry.

Type 053 frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


then why are you guys buying 8 more of them instead of buying something with a bigger punch.......

just a question regarding the decision to buy 4 more f22p's......can someone enlighten me on this!

 

[zagahaga]

^^^ i am with him f 22p has hq 7 which is old we should get hq 9 and they are alot more stuff as well that are out dated in it we should at least cut the order of 1 f 22p and put in hq 9 in all of them

 

[TaimiKhan]

For the time being there is no confirm news for expanding the current F-22P deal, rather the rumors from some reliable sources are for bigger frigates compared to F-22P, and the recent Chinese Type-054A to Karachi gave a message that it may be a contender as this is the newest and most hi-tech Chinese frigate in service, with 8 currently built and more coming into service at a fast pace. And this is much capable then F-22P, plus PN won't be putting 8 eggs in just one basket, it will like to diversify its capability.

Plus for those who say F-22P is a bad choice or does not meets PN specifications, well if that had been the case, the keel for 4th ship won't have been laid a week back, as it would have been delayed till modifications had been done, plus PN guys were fully involved in the testing phase in China, they would have delayed the delivery if it had not met their expectations, or even the 2nd F-22P would have delayed to ask China to make improvements or corrections, rather in a few months time the 3rd one will be handed over to PN also. So if it had faced any prb by now, PN would have delayed the 2nd one frigate till modifications done. Plus F-22P is different then the 053 which were built in 80s, early 90s, more then a decade old. China made a lot of improvements and introduced new technologies in the last one decade, making their ship building capability at par with any good manufacturer and their weapon systems and other combat systems have improved a lot too, thus making F-22P different and much better then the decade+ old 053s.

So comparing decade old machines is not the way to go.

 

[jalip]

just out of curiosity!!!!!some time back there was a post asking if f22p was a bad decision by PN ,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/31387-f-22p-bad-decision-pn.html


the f22p frigates were actually considered as replacements for the f21p

and one of the posts (post 6)in the thread goes as


According to the F-22P's history, The 053-series frigates is China's most successful export warship. To date, one 053H1 was sold to Bangladesh, two to Egypt, and four 053T/053HT were sold to Thailand. Customer assessments of these ships were generally poor. The 053H1 (Jianghu I) ships sold to Bangladesh and Egypt were used and had equipment problems. The stabilizers didn't work, the ship either did not have air conditioning, or those equipped with air conditioning had to be used sparingly to save the generators. The 100 mm gun was hand-loaded and did not have a working fire-control radar. The SSM's were Chinese copies of the Soviet Styx missile, which was obsolete.

When Thailand ordered four new 053 frigates in 1990, China built them to the (then) latest 053H2 (Jianghu III) standard. Two were modified with helicopter decks in the back. Although the price was excellent (2 billion baht each, compared to 8 billion baht for western ships), the Thai Navy complained of quality issues. The interior wiring was exposed and had to be re-wired. The ship's battle damage control system was very limited, with poor quality fire-suppression system and water-tight locks. It's said that if the ship's hull was breached, rapid flooding would lead to loss of ship. The Thai Navy had to spent considerable time and effort to correct some of these issues.
The harsh criticisms lead to many improvements in China's shipbuilding industry.

Type 053 frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


then why are you guys buying 8 more of them instead of buying something with a bigger punch.......

just a question regarding the decision to buy 4 more f22p's......can someone enlighten me on this!

f22p is an improved version its totally a different platform most of the equipment it used is latest and china is using them on their latest destroyers and frigates 1990 was the time when china was at initial stages of their ship development know its 19 years at least give them some credit of their over all technological development pakistan did not Purchase it from shelve.
F22p was designed by keeping the requirements of Pakistan in mind Pakistan in future will only go for type 54 frigates might not go for type 54 A and these ships will be built in Pakistan

 

[Destructlord]

Gratz to our brothers in Pakistan! I hope one day we gonna have joint cooperation in this sector!

 

[TaimiKhan]

f22p is an improved version its totally a different platform most of the equipment it used is latest and china is using them on their latest destroyers and frigates 1990 was the time when china was at initial stages of their ship development know its 19 years at least give them some credit of their over all technological development pakistan did not Purchase it from shelve.
F22p was designed by keeping the requirements of Pakistan in mind Pakistan in future will only go for type 54 frigates might not go for type 54 A and these ships will be built in Pakistan

Type-54 is less capable compared to Type-054A, plus Type-54 are now not being built, also Type-054 had a lot of Russian weapon systems and combat systems, while Type-054A has wholly Chinese indigenous weapon & combat systems, and the capabilities of Type-054A are much more suited to PN & superior then anything we have or will be getting in future.

F-22P can be said to be the little brother of Type-054 as a lot of weapons systems are same, HQ-7 and AshM are same, with Russian CIWS, Russian Radars, plus China itself has just 2 ships in service, rest 6-8 are Type-054As in service or being inducted at a very fast rate.

Type-054A is one mean machine in its class, if it gets a SAM of about 100+KM range, it will be one hell of an option for PN and will multiply the capability of PN. Current SAM is said to be 50-60KM range.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Gratz to our brothers in Pakistan! I hope one day we gonna have joint corporation in this sector!

I wish we start from now onwards, Iran, Pakistan & China, will be a major boost for Pakistan & Iran.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

WE JUST NEED TO BRING SOME NEW UPGRADES ON OUR F-22P FRIGATES.....OTHERWISE THE SHIPS ARE VERY MUCH COMPARABLE TO MOST OF THE ADVANCED FRIGATES IN THE WORLD TODAY

 

[Destructlord]

I wish we start from now onwards, Iran, Pakistan & China, will be a major boost for Pakistan & Iran.

I'm sure people in Iran military will be very happy but, I think it's mostly up to Pakistan if they want to cooperate with us or not? But we have good experience in building fast-attack boats, and frigate (Moudge 1&2 class) and also a destroyer (Jamaran)


Anyway to me the above picture is frigate!