Four Britons plotted to bomb British army base using toy car.

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It amazes me that Saudi propagating mosques are allowed even today in the UK when the authorities know what has happened.

Not just that, but organizations such as the Hizb-ur-Tahrir, that are openly committed to overthrowing the government in Pakistan to establish 'Khilafat', have been implicated in many plots to assassinate/kidnap senior military and civilian leaders, are allowed free reign in the UK, as is the leadership of terrorist organizations such as the BLA, BLF, in both the UK and the US.

 

[RKhan]

British Pakistanis are a breed of their own. They are more backward then the tribals. I felt so ashamed when I saw Isam4UK protestors (with Pakistanis in them) openly propagating Sharia for the UK and being proud of deaths. They need to better integrate themselves to English society. I hope I'm not generalizing, I mean there are alot of successful Pakistanis but these bad apples are tarnishing the image of Pakistan. I mean I have family there and they always complain of youth be unemployed and just acting like hoodlums.


British Pakistanis should just not attend Saudi run mosques.

 

[karan.1970]

You are correct that 'extremist organizations', such as AQ, act as enablers for Muslim men (and they are by no means 'countless', just as the incidents of American Military/contractor personnel raping and massacring innocent Muslims in occupied territories are not just a single 'lone soldier', but many) making a conscious decision to commit violence, but beyond that there is no distinction between them and the American Military personnel making a conscious decision to massacre and rape Muslims in countries under occupation. I would argue that while these military personnel may not necessarily subscribe to any particular organization, they are nonetheless motivated by a similar 'hatred/prejudice' of the 'other' (perhaps over perceived wrongs done against their nation/culture), that motivates 'extremist Muslims'.

The point I am trying to make here is that the case of an american soldier is individual (and not specific to Muslim victims). You see this in every single instance where an army operates in a foreign land.. Whether it was Vietnam, East Pakistan/Bangladesh, Kosovo, Congo .. etc etc..

On the other hand, the acts of these 4 muslim men and the acts of countless other muslims who indulge in acts of violence/terror are a small part of a world wide organizational drive that uses a distorted form of Islam to forward its agenda.

Hence the case 1 is an individual crime and case 2 is a part of global terrorism forwarded by Islamic extremist organizations like AQ

I don't care who they associate with, the fact of the matter is that if they were born and raised in the UK, the British society and system is what shaped them, not Pakistan or Pakistani society.

But there's got to be a reason that statistically significant number of such British muslims who indulge in such activities have strong/recent linkages to Pakistan.. No matter how much you categorize them as British and not Pakistani (Aryan's awesome comment about writing fire on a piece of paper), you can not erase the Pakistani linkages..

 

[JayAtl]

am i correct in assuming that most of the Pakistanis in the US are from the citys in pakistan like islamabad, karachi i.e the more built up areas, whereas the ones who went to the UK were from the poorer village type areas, like most of the people in the UK are Kashmiri - i think .





but im sure that they would have done if the UK was messing with indian affairs - which it isnt. For arguments sake lets say the UK invaded india right now for its recources (like they did iraq), your telling me that all the indians in the UK will sit quietly singing the UK national anthem? they wouldnt, also im sure that a minority of them would use violence.

Not that anyone should use violence. What theses guys in luton did was not acceptable, instead they should have voiced their anger at the UKs foreign policy in a more constructive way.

On the first part I don't honestly know to say which part of Pakistan they come from.

On the second part I have to ask are you aware of our history? UK ruled, plundered, raped and murdered India and Indians. There could not have been a more violent history than that to give Indians the excuse to attack UK citizens. By nature Indians are live and let live.

Look at the attitudes towards Pakistan. 4 wars were thrust on Indians , yet Indians will be happy to find a peaceful solution. almost two decades of terrorism from Pakistan and maybe over 50,000 dead. Yet Indians will be happy for a peaceful solution. Indians did not during Kargil go about trying to kill Pakistanis aboard or during Mumbai attacks. Hell india did not even attack Pakistan where I guarantee you if roles were reversed pakistan would have attacked india.

You are speaking of an Iraq war where more deaths, 98% of them,were muslim on muslim acts. The problem with non indian muslims is that they make every muslim their brother but with the caveat of convenience- only to extent of attacking the west but ignore massive large scale genocide committed by their own fellow muslims on muslims. Take china for example: they can massacre 1000 muslims tomorrow but because it is an ally pakisitanis won't say jack. They have rules where any muslim under 18 cannot and is not allowed to go to mosque to pray in China. A direct threat to freedom of practicing your religion you guys get up in arms up on much smaller incidents in western countries - But do they object about China or say anything? nope? So these muslims who attack britain and west do it on a convenient basis...

oh thats funny...i remember seeing a plethora of bharty shmucks on this forum lambasting the Sikhs in London and even faraway as Canada

Is that not the point here? i.e. Only if your guys could stick to lambasting and not blastin.g I mean I don't see a " oh" look on peoples face here when they find out my Indian heritage. Conversation almost always go to technology and how smart the people are. Play word association " India" and " Pakistan" anywhere in the world . there in lies your answer...

They are terrorists, just for playing with remote control toys near a military base? Talk about insecurities!

always the sympathizer, yeah? ...you actually think in the land where they allow your people to scream sharia now for UK and allow them to openly protest, spew hate speech- they would have your sense of intellect and just arrest somebody for a toy.

 

[JayAtl]

Please show me which poll shows 80% of Pakistanis supporting attacks on innocent civilians.

The polls I have seen show around the same percentage (80%) of Pakistanis opposing attacks on innocent civilians.

And the number of incidents of violence committed by US military personnel against local Muslims in occupied territories (only the ones we know of) are far more than a handful, and the perpetrators have largely gotten away with slaps on the wrist for their crimes under the American Military Justice System.

I don't care who they associate with, the fact of the matter is that if they were born and raised in the UK, the British society and system is what shaped them, not Pakistan or Pakistani society.

I will hunt for that poll. BTW I said 80% or thereabouts sympathized in some part with the terrorist manifesto, not the blowing up civilians part but their cause. It was posted here months ago...

On the second half- I posted an article here on this thread about Pakistani british community. You say the govt is to be blamed for the radicals . But it clearly shows that pakistanis live in communities far isolated from the regular brits. infact in communities where they won't even have a chance to see a " gora" as it was put in the article. Then there is thing called " parents" " personal responsibility"-- how come you are expecting the Brit govt to raise your people there? What are the parents doing there? and how come Pakistani americans are so different ? Did the US govt raise you and your siblings? NO- it is a part of your culture and people that makes them this way. Every society has that part of its people , typically in our languages you have a word for them , when translated means " low class". Just that your version of low class are an excessively destructive and violent bunch.

 

[Peregrine]

always the sympathizer, yeah? ...you actually think in the land where they allow your people to scream sharia now for UK and allow them to openly protest, spew hate speech- they would have your sense of intellect and just arrest somebody for a toy.

Well Well.....If it isn't the extremist Islamophobe! What ever the Muslims in UK do, they have the right to protest against the unjust involvement of British military in killings of innocent Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. At least they have the fortitude to confront transgression. Their protests against military oppression of Muslims, irritates you because for you and your ilk, ulterior motive is to portray Muslims in bad image. So there goes your credibility, you are found on any every ''Muslim Bashing'' thread with your spiteful rant, you are a jingoist( your verbal vomit against Britishers, outlined that) it's all because of mentality like yours that, we have so much hate in the world. Get a life and stop trying to feed your egotism with fallacy of cheap shots on internet by justifying killings of innocent civilians over perceived threats.

 

[lem34]

I feel compelled to come on here as a third generation British Pakistani and clarify a few points made on here.

1. I am concerned that some non British Pakistanis on here are so quick to disown us. We are just as proud of our roots as Italian Americans or Irish Americans of their European roots. It is not for you from UAE or American Pakistanis to suggest that we are in any way less than you Pakistanis. The reason my father took on British nationality was because when Pakistan left the commonwealth the British Govt's attitude was that we would be treated as aliens. I think it was Z Bhutto who in retaliation stated that Pakistan would allow us the privilege of dual nationals even if we were entitled and claimed British nationality. My family and I own property in UK and Pakistan. We have loyalties to both Pakistan and Britain. As it has been said you can write on a piece of paper fire a million times it will not burn. Yet a simple match is enough to light the paper. You can not simply erase the Pakistan that is etched on my heart by giving me a British passport. It would be naive and churlish for anyone to think anything else.

2. Some of you have come on here and made the point about people of British Pakistanis being less educated than American or Canadian Pakistanis. That may well have been the case for first generation British. It certainly is not true about following generations. I have over 250 second cousins in the UK and I can not for the life of me think of any that do not have at least one degree from a UK university. Along with that we have numerous professionals be they doctors, dentists lawyers etc

3. Some Indians, who I have all the answers for have also taken this as an opportunity to bash Pakistan. I used to have a relaxed view about Indians ( on a personal level I have lots of Indian friends in the UK) until I came on here on this forum and saw the hatred that some of you lot have for Pakistan. In fact I have decided to post less on here as I find your hatred revolting. Every nationality, every religion has it's share of nutters and or misguided frustrated fools. You can not take these actions as representative of Pakistanis or British or British Pakistanis. For you to do so is tantamount to racism. Let me tell you what i mean. I do not regard myself in any way an extremist. All life is sacrosanct to me. However if I am against for example the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war and am passionate that does not make me a terrorist nor a fanatic. You have to take into account that numerous polls here in the UK have shown that the majority of people of all origins were against these illegal acts. I know lots of my white English friends to hold the views that I have. Yet in their case Pakistan is not blamed.

4. And now who is to blame. About 12 miles away from Leeds there is a mosque that was funded by the Saudis in the late seventies. I think they donated about £2 million for building it. Alongside this there is also a Muslim school which they paid for as well. They made it part of the deal that would only pay for it if the teachers and Mullahs used would be supplied by them and propagate a very harsh form of Islam imo. They made a Mr Wahebs books standard. Some thirty years later to today if you go within a five mile radius of the mosque I see more women with a Burkha and men wearing Arabic dress than I would in Islamabad. This has been going on right under the nose of the British authorities. One of the London bombers I think the lead guy a Mr Siddique lived less than a mile from this mosque and was known to the people there and frequented this mosque. On top of this you can not forget that London was at one time known as Londonistan because the British govt was giving asylum to people wanted all over by their countries of origin for terrorist activities.

No one blames the British govt for its part in this. No one tries to blame Saudis but Pakistanis yes they are an easy target. Why?? Simply we are cursed with leaders hoisted on us under the name of the abortion known as democracy. Leaders who are bribed or bullied and who have assets in the west to bleed and humiliate Pakistanis everywhere.

In the excitement to blame Pakistan and British Pakistanis in particular it appears that some of you have chosen to ignore the post above. I would ask you to read it as it is the experience of a "British Pakistani that has personal experience of what some of you are trying to pontificate about that includes Indians and Pakistanis from Canada and America. It gets tedious when some of you just ignore posts that do not support your assertions.

The blame for terrorism lies with a number of countries and nationalities it is not a monopoly of Pakistanis. Anyone trying to argue this is ignorant and or racist and usually has ulterior motives.

Why are most of you ignoring the part played by the Saudi govt?

Why are most of you ignoring the British govt for turning a blind eye to what is going on in these Wahhabi mosques in the UK and as Agno rightly pointed out extremist groups in the UK?

I accept that all countries are entitled to take affirmative action and bring these perpetrators to account. But you will not get rid of terrorism simply by catching or killing terrorists/criminals. In the case of Americans I think that their collateral damage often creates fertile recruiting ground for producing more of the same.

Why have UK US the west not tried winning hearts and minds?

In this regards they could learn from the Saudis who have propagated their imo harsh version of Islam. I have spoken to Yeti who is a young Brit of Indian origin and even he has pointed out that these Wahhabis are an embarrassment to all Asians in the UK in post 41. You see Yeti unlike other Indians is not out to bash Pakistan or Pakistanis indiscriminately as some of you. In fact I think that some Indians on here in the excitement to be accepted by west support Brit American and other govts even when the populations of in particular UK do not support their own govts actions around the world.

Now I would like to add something more for some of you rather excitable Indians.

1. The mosque referred to in the above post is one of the biggest in Europe and is funded by Saudi money. In return they are propagating Wahhabism and are being ignored by the UK govt. Do not forget that the leader of the British bombers was associated to this mosque he lived less than a mile from this mosque:


Markazi Masjid

The Markazi Masjid (Central Mosque), also known as the Dewsbury Markaz or Dar ul Ulum (House of Knowledge),[1] is a mosque in the Savile Town area of Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. Accommodating up to 4,000 worshippers, it is one of the largest mosques in the United Kingdom and among the biggest purpose-built mosques in Europe.[2] It is also the European headquarters of the Tablighi Jamaat movement,[3] and houses the Institute of Islamic Education (Jamia Talimul Islam),[4] an independent day and boarding faith school for boys aged 13–19[5] and one of the two main Islamic seminaries in the UK.[2][6] The mosque serves as a centre for Tablighi Jamaat's missionary activity throughout Europe.[1]
Controversy

Tablighi Jamaat and the Dewsbury Markaz has been repeatedly accused of promoting extremist Islamism and having links with Islamic terrorism in Britain; Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the 7 July 2005 London bombers, are reported to have attended prayers at the mosque.[7][8][9][10][11] Both the allegation of extremism and specific claims that Sidique Khan or Tanweer visited the mosque are denied by its leaders.[10][11][12] In 2006 the Institute of Islamic Education was criticised by Ofsted for an 'over-emphasis' on religious study to the neglect of the secular curriculum,[4][7] leading to poor exam performance.[13][14] The latest inspection (2008) reported satisfactory improvement in this area.[15] Times journalist Andrew Norfolk has argued the school contributes to ethnic segregation in the local area.[8][9] The daughter of the former headmaster of the school, Aishah Azmi, came to public attention in 2006 after being dismissed from her position as a classroom assistant in a Church of England faith school for refusing to remove her niqab.[7]

Markazi Masjid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And now for my Indian friends the overwhelming majority of those that use this mosque are not Pakistani Muslims of Pakistani origins but British Indian Muslims of Indian origins. Most of the people pushing for Sharia laws to be implemented in the UK are also of Indian origin not Pakistani origin.

For example

Dewsbury-born mufti hates British way of life - Jihad Watch

I know the overwhelming majority are Indians (in excess of 80%) because I have been to Jumma to that mosque on a number of occasions.

So if you want to blame the actions of a few foolish people on a nation blame US, UK, Saudi, India along with Pakistan. Lets stop blaming and trying to win hearts and minds instead of cheap point scoring please

 

[JayAtl]

Well Well.....If it isn't the extremist Islamophobe! What ever the Muslims in UK do, they have the right to protest against the unjust involvement of British military in killings of innocent Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. At least they have the fortitude to confront transgression. Their protests against military oppression of Muslims, irritates you because for you and your ilk, ulterior motive is to portray Muslims in bad image. So there goes your credibility, you are found on any every ''Muslim Bashing'' thread with your spiteful rant, you are a jingoist( your verbal vomit against Britishers, outlined that) it's all because of mentality like yours that, we have so much hate in the world. Get a life and stop trying to feed your egotism with fallacy of cheap shots on internet by justifying killings of innocent civilians over perceived threats.

First, I've now on several occasions avoided to point out your horrible application of vocabulary in your posts ( given my track record of using colloquialisms and improper grammar here) , which seems like you are posting directly after reading up a new word in the dictionary.

Second , it is not about the right to protest that is in contention - rather it is the blowing up of civilians , terrorists acts that we object to. You spent a whole rant based on protest while protesting was not the issue for me. These Pakistani British were not caught for protesting !

Thirdly is it not ironical that you give an example of unjust done to Muslims in Afghanistan while you support terrorists acts that kill those very Muslims in thousands, more than any misadventure by the US /NATO forces. FYI- The Muslims in Afghanistan despise your Muslims overwhelmingly .

My advice to you is to concentrate on being less of a radical supporter, looking up the dictionary for words you think make you sound intelligent and more on reading and comprehending the objections posted correctly.

In the excitement to blame Pakistan and British Pakistanis in particular it appears that some of you have chosen to ignore the post above. I would ask you to read it as it is the experience of a "British Pakistani that has personal experience of what some of you are trying to pontificate about that includes Indians and Pakistanis from Canada and America. It gets tedious when some of you just ignore posts that do not support your assertions.

The blame for terrorism lies with a number of countries and nationalities it is not a monopoly of Pakistanis. Anyone trying to argue this is ignorant and or racist and usually has ulterior motives.

Why are most of you ignoring the part played by the Saudi govt?

Why are most of you ignoring the British govt for turning a blind eye to what is going on in these Wahhabi mosques in the UK and as Agno rightly pointed out extremist groups in the UK?

I accept that all countries are entitled to take affirmative action and bring these perpetrators to account. But you will not get rid of terrorism simply by catching or killing terrorists/criminals. In the case of Americans I think that their collateral damage often creates fertile recruiting ground for producing more of the same.

Why have UK US the west not tried winning hearts and minds?

In this regards they could learn from the Saudis who have propagated their imo harsh version of Islam. I have spoken to Yeti who is a young Brit of Indian origin and even he has pointed out that these Wahhabis are an embarrassment to all Asians in the UK in post 41. You see Yeti unlike other Indians is not out to bash Pakistan or Pakistanis indiscriminately as some of you. In fact I think that some Indians on here in the excitement to be accepted by west support Brit American and other govts even when the populations of in particular UK do not support their own govts actions around the world.

Now I would like to add something more for some of you rather excitable Indians.

1. The mosque referred to in the above post is one of the biggest in Europe and is funded by Saudi money. In return they are propagating Wahhabism and are being ignored by the UK govt. Do not forget that the leader of the British bombers was associated to this mosque he lived less than a mile from this mosque:


Markazi Masjid

The Markazi Masjid (Central Mosque), also known as the Dewsbury Markaz or Dar ul Ulum (House of Knowledge),[1] is a mosque in the Savile Town area of Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. Accommodating up to 4,000 worshippers, it is one of the largest mosques in the United Kingdom and among the biggest purpose-built mosques in Europe.[2] It is also the European headquarters of the Tablighi Jamaat movement,[3] and houses the Institute of Islamic Education (Jamia Talimul Islam),[4] an independent day and boarding faith school for boys aged 13–19[5] and one of the two main Islamic seminaries in the UK.[2][6] The mosque serves as a centre for Tablighi Jamaat's missionary activity throughout Europe.[1]
Controversy

Tablighi Jamaat and the Dewsbury Markaz has been repeatedly accused of promoting extremist Islamism and having links with Islamic terrorism in Britain; Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the 7 July 2005 London bombers, are reported to have attended prayers at the mosque.[7][8][9][10][11] Both the allegation of extremism and specific claims that Sidique Khan or Tanweer visited the mosque are denied by its leaders.[10][11][12] In 2006 the Institute of Islamic Education was criticised by Ofsted for an 'over-emphasis' on religious study to the neglect of the secular curriculum,[4][7] leading to poor exam performance.[13][14] The latest inspection (2008) reported satisfactory improvement in this area.[15] Times journalist Andrew Norfolk has argued the school contributes to ethnic segregation in the local area.[8][9] The daughter of the former headmaster of the school, Aishah Azmi, came to public attention in 2006 after being dismissed from her position as a classroom assistant in a Church of England faith school for refusing to remove her niqab.[7]

Markazi Masjid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And now for my Indian friends the overwhelming majority of those that use this mosque are not Pakistani Muslims of Pakistani origins but British Indian Muslims of Indian origins. Most of the people pushing for Sharia laws to be implemented in the UK are also of Indian origin not Pakistani origin.

For example

Dewsbury-born mufti hates British way of life - Jihad Watch

I know the overwhelming majority are Indians (in excess of 80%) because I have been to Jumma to that mosque on a number of occasions.

So if you want to blame the actions of a few foolish people on a nation blame US, UK, Saudi, India along with Pakistan. Lets stop blaming and trying to win hearts and minds instead of cheap point scoring please

Yes Yes we know its Saudi mosques but who fills those mosques? ~ How come Saudi funded mosques in the US fail? I'l tell you why- because we largely have as I've said more cultured Pakistani immigrants here vs. UK. There is sense of personal responsibility and more cohesive family unit .

You yourself espouse and have on these boards many similar thoughts as those Saudi's have. we Just need to put the word " jew" or "India" in front you and you go ballistic. Let's not pretend some faked moderation on your behalf. Even here you managed to pull in India into the blame game . NO IT's you and you people to blame for your radicalism and indoctrination of your own youth ~ no Indian Muslim, Hindu, Jew , Christian recruits them... I have seen one ( singular) cultured Pakistani British on these boards ( Zakii) , I'm sure I missing maybe another two, but I can name several US Pakistanis on these boards - whom I vehemently disagree on many occasions but never see them as radical sympathizers as most you Pakistanis british are. That's the harsh truth.

 

[lem34]

Wow seems British army is very unpopular at home. Seems like the War on Terror had earned them a bad rep and a target on their back.

I think it is sad that people take it out on the soldiers most who are ideologically neutral from whichever country they come from. In the case of the UK I am able to confirm that polls show that British regimes (govts) often take actions that most British people are against. This of course is given the garb of legitimacy in a flawed democracy

60% think Iraq war was wrong, poll shows | World news | guardian.co.uk

These are not terrorists,

they are wannabes: nothing less and nothing more..........

Regarding bringing more embarrasment to nation, I think this is no more embarassment or new thing.

But British security agencies have to show that they are delivering

They are not Pak nationals they UK citizens and probably by birth since they were youngish kids. This organization they belong to, HuT, Pakistan has been crying foul about them for so long and urging the UK to close down their cells. They operate like a club in the UK! Imagine that, open terrorism clubs.

disowning all British Pakistanis cos of the actions of a few foolish and frustrated people is unfair and flawed. None can take away their origins

But still dont you think these guies bring a bad name for Pakistan ???
And what you say is truth then imagin how will UK behave to Pak origin people after that. Public opinion will also play major role in that. It will be hard time for people specially students from Pakistan going to UK for business or study. It will definately not help the other people in UK who already have citizenship

Why? All countries or religious persuasions have criminals. The whole concept of blaming wholesale communities for individual actions is flawed

What is going on with the British Pakistani youth.

Why not have a honest discussion about it here. We even notice the British Pakistanis ( Not all ) here, seem to be quite radical in their ways. We have read articles about the Pakistani British youth having high numbers involved in drugs , crimes or being radicalized in UK. We have read several other Pakistani British posters here confirm this state of affairs to us here. AGAIN my question is what is going in UK- it is beyond anecdotal now, it seems like a community is in trouble.

In Glasgow most criminals and undesirables are overwhelmingly Scottish- not Pakistanis. Your going from thread to thread cos of your hatred for Pakistan and trying to damn over a million people is flawed. But then education or intellectual prowess has never been your forte has it. Lets talk about Indians like you who hate Pakistanis and come on here to slag off Pakistanis. This is not a healthy obsession you have young man

lol....
they may well be messing about with an RC car....and somebody got paranoid.
obviously no explosives were found in their posession.....and the great british army got scared of "le toy car"
height of bravery

as I said earlier all agencies have to be seen to be doing something

Luton terrorist plot: 4 British suspects 'plotted to use little toy car to attack Territorial Army base' | Mail Online

Yep the mail is known for being a right wing rag that promotes anything with racist undertones and are often critical of Asians Indian and Pakistanis. any excuse to sell a few papers and take blood money and then people slag of Press TV when they do the same

It's funny how the media, especially Indian, tampers the words and headlines. Immaturity and sheer hatred.

.

whats new the a lot of Indians that come on here have a complex about Pakistanis. Why else come on this Pakistani forum to wind people up

She does.. And I dont mind feeling proud of people who are originally from my country even after they migrate to another country.. But then the same should apply for their failings too..

You want me to hold India and all Indians responsible for Indian origin criminals?? Get a life

It's like forcibly being tagged to Pakistan. These guys quit Pakistan accepted UK nationality. Affiliation with Pakistan remains familial and personal from that point on, not national. Moreover the issue of name spoiling is secondary, they are harmful to Pakistan. Their radicalization is happening in the UK, they have money as they earn in Pounds, bring that money to Pakistan and give it to our own radicals. Their money is spent on terrorism in Pakistan.

UK must crackdown on just one thing, the organization that calls itself HuT. Rest of British Pakistani are fine and should not be harassed for the actions of a group the British are allowing to fester and grow. They aren't totally militant yet, but that's mostly because of a lack of opportunity. Their money however flows to the violent militants in Pakistan.

I have addressed the matters you raise adequately in my substantive post. We do not need to defend Pakistan or Pakistanis for criminal elements

Men appear in court charged with plotting to attack Territorial Army with model car - Telegraph

Yet if you read most posts on here you would forget the Benagali and or Bangladesh. I don't see anyone taking issues here with Bangladesh

I saw many Pakistani takes credit of Pakistani origin British Boxer Amir khan for his accomplishments. If you own Amir Khan then you own these wannabe terrorists. After Mohmaad amir, Yousuf and Butt jailed in England jail these guys have bring bad name for Pakistan.Regards.

your reasoning is flawed and has been exposed earlier. What you doing here Indian? obsessed with Pakistanis

These men are British, not Pakistani or Bengali. Read the article.

Yep it's a shame that such radicals exist in the UK (and there's quite a few of them).

Radicals live everywhere. So what?

Indians ke logic pe yaan tu banda hansta hey yaan rota hey

When British born Indian doing anything "oh he is individual and NOT Indian... he belongs to Indian Family BUT 1st he is British National and also Individual not representing whole Nation"

When British born Pakistani doing anything "oh he is belongs to TERRORIST country.. he is PAKISTANI ... 1st he is PAKISTANI thn TERRORIST and representing Pakistan and Terrorist nation bla blaa non-sense bullshits!"

banda tumko LITAR he maray!

You are right I think some of these Indians have issues.

................

Thats it troll very clever. make a troll remark get a thank you from on of your mates and then delete it before you get an infraction. Are all Indians devious or just you?

Not trying to be a troll here.

Here in UK we also have VERY LARGE Arabian, Iranian, Bangladeshi, Indian, Indonesian, Bruneian, Afghans, Kurdish Muslim communities.

But why is it that EVERY TIME all these 'home grown terrorists' find their roots back in Pakistan? Not just UK the same case with US.

Have you ever thought that some press in UK might have their own agenda and ulterior motives??

Maybe born in Britain, but NEVER British. Or English.

An American lol. Well you can't get more racist can you. I think on some other thread you were talking about your Scottish roots. But then you can become whatever you want

it's an irrelevant question....the suspects are British citizens. Apart from their elders, they have no connection to Pakistan whatsoever. They talk british, act british, dress british, and have british passports.

incidentally, there have been terrorist suspects of indian, bengali, north african as well as irish background/origin as well

why are you feeling the need to defend the actions of one individual even if he has Pakistani connections. Just cos a few Indian trolls want to tar the whole of Pakistanis?? They will anyway they will find other excuses they have an agenda that is self serving

You will not like me saying this - The point is they themselves identify themselves as Pakistani British, hence the media did. They themselves belong to the Pakistani British community. I totally get that you want to say these guys are not your citizens, but they are influenced by the actors in your country. They yearn to be trained there.

Go to UK, you won't even see a 2nd generation Pakistani not identify himself first as Pakistani British. .

There have been several articles I've read here, documentaries I have seen elsewhere ( because such honest and frank discussions get deleted or banned here- as we can see on this very thread) - that speak to the alarming rise of radicalism of the Pakistani youth in UK.

90% of terror plots executed or caught in Britain involve Pakistani British that at some point you have to go " let's call a spade a spade , the Pakistani community is in need for help and facing a crisis among its youth"

You have a snapshot of the Pakistani British here on these boards. you have less than 5% of them who are moderate and you read the rest of them espousing most radical views, supporting radical approach, sympathizing with the radical agenda .

We know you have an ulterior motives and agenda. After all why would an Indian come and post a thread on here about gay sexuality on a Pakistani Defence forum????? As you have done here?? What does that say about you?? You are so full of hate Indian you need to see a doctor

MY mind forbids me rather from making excuses. The first reaction of your mind is to try and disassociate yourself and somehow hope others fall for it. Then make excuses for them to be radicalized. There is no reason to be radicalized- none what so ever. India has had 10 perhaps 20 times more deaths from radical extremist Muslims from Pakistan. You don't see Indians going about trying to kill Pakistanis in foreign lands.

I highly doubt all the " effort" is put into catching these ' tourist' - but that was not really my contention.

Tell me about Hindutva and BJP and India being known as the epicenter of Hindu terrorism eh eh??

Luton is infected with wahabi mindset fundies they really are a shame on all asians in UK

thank you Yeti. At least we have one Indian on this thread that actually knows whats going on here.

The problem is Shariah4UK is on par with the neo-nazi groups like BNP/EDL they are both as bad as each other but I must add the majority of UK Pakistanis do not adopt their message or mindset they are a small % but one that is hell bent on causing tension with other ethnic groups.

Actually Yet the majority of Sharia 4 UK advocates are British Muslims of Indian origin. But hey look I am not blaming you or all India lol

There have been no " massacres" in any of those countries as sanctioned , planned or executed by the united states. Prove it. I hear these accusation , especially on Iraq, that US killed millions civilians ( absurd number), or even thousands- that is a fabrication. Most i.e. 98% civilians that were killed were muslim on muslim terror acts in Iraq. The rape and murder was a criminal act and not an act as a part of institutionalized jihad.

Go and do your own research Pakistani hater. How sad you are.

 

[lem34]

The problem with British Pakistanis is that they were mostly uneducated laborers who came to England in 1960s and 1970s to work in Textile Mills and thus they are not smart enough to diffrentiate between nonsense and the proper teachings in Islam.

The Pakistanis in Canada and USA are educated and middle class people and thats why they are better integrated than our crazy cousins in England.

You need to realise the worse part of a superiority complex is in reality and exaggerated inferiority complex. You need to do some research. I could well make comments generalising about Pakistani Americans but then I am not out to knock Pakistanis wherever they may be

40% british muslims support sharia law imposition in britain according to polls.They have been heavily radicalized,so this is hardly surprising.On youtube u can see several videos of these people and their karname.I am yet to see a single video of street rallies conducted by moderates condemning the radicals.Yet u see several radical street rallies.So how is one to know about majority/minority?This creates insecurity/phobia and leads to the creation of neo fascist groups like the EDL now active in UK.
This is sad reality though i know many will disagree.

60% UK public against Iraqi war I suppose they have been radicalised as well??

what about the sikhs who protested in london in support for Balwant Singh Rajoana who is said to be a terrorist? i remember asking a sikh guy at work if he thought of him as a freedom fighter or a terrorist and he said that he was a freedom fighter.

Yea well didnt you know this bad naming the entire community only applies to Muslims and Pakistanis??

 

[JayAtl]

60% UK public against Iraqi war I suppose they have been radicalised as well??

How many of them where behind 7/7? I know that your brethren from leeds where..

 

[lem34]

Doesnt USA and the West in general do the same too?

Then why is it the headline is always of a British Pakistani involved in a terrorist plot?

Propaganda?? And there are for more of us here than you lot in Canada. Not to mention most of you are mangoes and are fresh of the boat whilst we are third generation Brits

Ooooh you're back I was begging to miss you you know.

Begging???

British Pakistanis are a breed of their own. They are more backward then the tribals. I felt so ashamed when I saw Isam4UK protestors (with Pakistanis in them) openly propagating Sharia for the UK and being proud of deaths. They need to better integrate themselves to English society. I hope I'm not generalizing, I mean there are alot of successful Pakistanis but these bad apples are tarnishing the image of Pakistan. I mean I have family there and they always complain of youth be unemployed and just acting like hoodlums.


British Pakistanis should just not attend Saudi run mosques.

You are so ignorant without the prequisite research you choose to condemn all of us here. Do you not know a majority of the Sahria brigade in UK are of Indian origin Muslims

and perhaps the Brit Govt should stop Saudi funding of these institutions

First, I've now on several occasions avoided to point out your horrible application of vocabulary in your posts ( given my track record of using colloquialisms and improper grammar here) , which seems like you are posting directly after reading up a new word in the dictionary.

Second , it is not about the right to protest that is in contention - rather it is the blowing up of civilians , terrorists acts that we object to. You spent a whole rant based on protest while protesting was not the issue for me. These Pakistani British were not caught for protesting !

Thirdly is it not ironical that you give an example of unjust done to Muslims in Afghanistan while you support terrorists acts that kill those very Muslims in thousands, more than any misadventure by the US /NATO forces. FYI- The Muslims in Afghanistan despise your Muslims overwhelmingly .

My advice to you is to concentrate on being less of a radical supporter, looking up the dictionary for words you think make you sound intelligent and more on reading and comprehending the objections posted correctly.



.

Your education and intellectual qualities or the lack of them and your hatred for Pakistanis prevents reasonable debate with you

Yes Yes we know its Saudi mosques but who fills those mosques? ~ How come Saudi funded mosques in the US fail? I'l tell you why- because we largely have as I've said more cultured Pakistani immigrants here vs. UK. There is sense of personal responsibility and more cohesive family unit .
.

Why are you selective in what you read. The biggest mosque of this affiliation has in its midst 80% Muslims of Indian origin but you try to make it a Pakistani issue?? Why are you so blinded by hate for Pakistan?? Have you had a bad personal experience??

 

[Abii]

well, the Brits are reaping what they sow.
As other members have said, saudi run wahabi mosques shouldn't be allowed to run and Pakistani and Indian muslims should not be attending them in the first place.

 

[lem34]

You yourself espouse and have on these boards many similar thoughts as those Saudi's have. we Just need to put the word " jew" or "India" in front you and you go ballistic. Let's not pretend some faked moderation on your behalf. Even here you managed to pull in India into the blame game . NO IT's you and you people to blame for your radicalism and indoctrination of your own youth ~ no Indian Muslim, Hindu, Jew , Christian recruits them... I have seen one ( singular) cultured Pakistani British on these boards ( Zakii) , I'm sure I missing maybe another two, but I can name several US Pakistanis on these boards - whom I vehemently disagree on many occasions but never see them as radical sympathizers as most you Pakistanis british are. That's the harsh truth.

Get a life lots of British people of all origins are supportive of my views. For example the Brit govt went to war in Iraq against the wishes of a majority of people here in the UK. But its sad little Indians like you full of hate for Pakistan that anyone that disagrees with White man govt you feel you have to ingratiate yourself to them. I am confident as a Britis Pakistani able to disagree and voice my opinions. In fact you are the one that is racist as you call me out as Pakistani for having my views. Political thoughts are not absolute they are realtive. To Hitler British liberal democrats were left wing. So I suggest you look at where you stand. I am not and can not be described as an extremist yet you choose to try to censor me or drown me with the insulting personal attacks that I am an extremist etc.

^^^ He is on his " its never our mistake, its those jooz , 's, yindoos , ,Christians , white , Saudi , Buddhist , dalia lama and others fault" tour . This is the British Pakistani I speak off.

Yea sad Indian full of hatred coming on Pakistan forum to down Pakistanis what a way to pass time. As I said Hitler thought liberal democrats are communists lol. You part of the Hindu epicenter of terrorism??

How many of them where behind 7/7? I know that your brethren from leeds where..

And so what?? that makes all Pakistanis and Pakistan bad. Are you lot so thick that you blame the criminal actions of individuals to paint an entire community. btw your hatred for us comes shining even though you try your best to hide it

well, the Brits are reaping what they sow.
As other members have said, saudi run wahabi mosques shouldn't be allowed to run and Pakistani and Indian muslims should not be attending them in the first place.

thank you Aby. The Brit govt should not allow Saudis this brainwashing. In fact UN should deal with it as Saudis are doing this in many countries

 

[junk]

thank you Aby. The Brit govt should not allow Saudis this brainwashing. In fact UN should deal with it as Saudis are doing this in many countries

the damage has already been done sir with years of un-noticed funding by the house of Al-zionist saud, the bright side to it is more people are waking up to the reality everyday, but yes you are right UN should help & curb these fundings from GCC which comes in the name of charity.

well, the Brits are reaping what they sow.
As other members have said, saudi run wahabi mosques shouldn't be allowed to run and Pakistani and Indian muslims should not be attending them in the first place.

you are right, brits need to check the nationality of these preachers in the mosques if they are from GCC they should be packed back to where they belong.

may be they should ban this HUT what ever it is called.

To make this very very clear Mosa has already justified the funding of Wahabi/Salafi Ideology in previous threads with the twisted logic stating Wahabi/Salafi ideology has brough more converts.