Formation of All Pakistan Muslim League

[razgriz19]

APML Official logo

THE SHAHEEN!!!!

 

[Tayyab1796]

^^ this looks more an american eagle then a local Pakistani falcon... think about it

 

[Patriot]

Nice logo.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Pir Pagara is related to PM Gilani (his grandaughter is married to Gilani's son) also majority of these politicians are related with each other in some cases one brother is in PMLQ , other is in PMLN and the sister is in PPP , I don't think the Sun of power ever sets in their household. One certain thing is these politicians were a failure in the past and they will be a failure in the future . We need someone like Imran , with new blood . But an honest politician is a very very rare commodity in Pakistan and not many people can afford .

Here comes Pagara...Mr. Pagara...
What a shame!!!!!!

 

[SandsofTime]

^^ this looks more an american eagle then a local Pakistani falcon... think about it

How does it look American? I thought American eagles are bald. Did this chap immigrate to America Maybe it needs a head shave

 

[Tayyab1796]

How does it look American? I thought American eagles are bald. Did this chap immigrate to America Maybe it needs a head shave

This eagle had a hair transplant done and a paintjob on the beak to make it look local . American eagle usually has a golden beak.

 

[TechLahore]

Some observations:

1) Pir Pagara has always been helpful to the GHQ. Always. If he is at the center of this news, it would not be a stretch to imagine that the unification initiative was not 100% his.

2) Sheikh Rasheed and Mushahid Husain are similarly aligned and have been a part of numerous changeups in line with the GHQs preferences. To a lesser extent, the Chaudhry brothers are the same way. If they are all getting together, something is definitely afoot. Add to this, the Leghari and Chattha groupings and you can begin to see an alliance being cobbled together that can command quite a few seats in parliament, especially in light of the current government's performance.

3) Rehman Malik issuing the statement about Musharraf and militant groups is basically a veiled threat. Musharraf and the Army will not react kindly to this approach, but it does expose Rehman Malik's desperation. Frankly, I see this guy fleeing the moment a change in government is on the horizon. In any case, the current government cannot sustain any further on-the-ground opposition, which Musharraf's return will definitely create. They have possibly the lowest approval of any government in Pakistan's history.

4) Imran Khan is not a significant factor in an election, but he is certainly very popular in many quarters. I think he is generally seen as being honest viz handling of money, even if pig-headed in other ways. That said, I don't see the aforementioned group of politicos uniting under Imran Khan. I don't think they hold a serious enough view of him. Could he have a role in a future government? Absolutely. Could he be at the helm of affairs? Very, very unlikely. On the other hand, Musharraf is the "former boss" so he has already shown that he is capable of sitting atop a setup comprised of the Chaudhrys, Sheikh Rashid, MQM, PML-F, PML-Q, numerous independents and so on.

I still think the most likely scenario for change is a reconfiguration of allegiances within the parliament, or a mini-rebellion against Zardari. If that doesn't happen for some time, then the bottled up forces of change will eventually burst out with greater vigour and perhaps the Parliament will be at risk too. So, the better approach would be for the currently elected parliamentarians to realize this and relieve the pressure before it poses a danger to their own position.

 

[Rafael]

Some observations:

1) Pir Pagara has always been helpful to the GHQ. Always. If he is at the center of this news, it would not be a stretch to imagine that the unification initiative was not 100% his.

2) Sheikh Rasheed and Mushahid Husain are similarly aligned and have been a part of numerous changeups in line with the GHQs preferences. To a lesser extent, the Chaudhry brothers are the same way. If they are all getting together, something is definitely afoot. Add to this, the Leghari and Chattha groupings and you can begin to see an alliance being cobbled together that can command quite a few seats in parliament, especially in light of the current government's performance.

3) Rehman Malik issuing the statement about Musharraf and militant groups is basically a veiled threat. Musharraf and the Army will not react kindly to this approach, but it does expose Rehman Malik's desperation. Frankly, I see this guy fleeing the moment a change in government is on the horizon. In any case, the current government cannot sustain any further on-the-ground opposition, which Musharraf's return will definitely create. They have possibly the lowest approval of any government in Pakistan's history.

4) Imran Khan is not a significant factor in an election, but he is certainly very popular in many quarters. I think he is generally seen as being honest viz handling of money, even if pig-headed in other ways. That said, I don't see the aforementioned group of politicos uniting under Imran Khan. I don't think they hold a serious enough view of him. Could he have a role in a future government? Absolutely. Could he be at the helm of affairs? Very, very unlikely. On the other hand, Musharraf is the "former boss" so he has already shown that he is capable of sitting atop a setup comprised of the Chaudhrys, Sheikh Rashid, MQM, PML-F, PML-Q, numerous independents and so on.

I still think the most likely scenario for change is a reconfiguration of allegiances within the parliament, or a mini-rebellion against Zardari. If that doesn't happen for some time, then the bottled up forces of change will eventually burst out with greater vigour and perhaps the Parliament will be at risk too. So, the better approach would be for the currently elected parliamentarians to realize this and relieve the pressure before it poses a danger to their own position.

The only problem I see in your observation is the highlighted part. In my personal opinion Musharaff's come back, even if by general elections will not be seen as a positive development specially in Balochistan and to some extent in KP as well. Therefore Army/ Establishment will have to be very careful while making such a move as this can result in complete anarchy and law and order break down in these provinces.

 

[TechLahore]

^^ I think you give too much credit to the people. Unfortunately, our people have never been sufficiently bothered to launch a full fledged mass agitation just to unseat a leader. Yes, they will attend rallies when you give them Rs. 300/man/day, transportation and two square meals, but they won't organize themselves and look out for their own interests on their own.

Just cast a glance at the situation today. Wouldn't you think the present government is less popular than Musharraf ever was? There is no mass agitation against them either. Nor will there be. Once the powers-that-be decide that the game is up, you will see jalsas and juloos, but these will all be organized, funded and carried out by a small cadre of political/establishment players. They are not spontaneous movements organized and executed by the masses. Have you not seen that cartoon, "Horn zor say na bajaien. Ye qaum so rahi hay."

In the words of that devil, Zia-ul-Haq, the people here are like sheep. As far as domestic issues go, they bleat faithfully and follow whoever has the stick. This is obviously a very cynical characterization, but history does bear out the refusal of our populace to organize themselves sufficiently and launch a real movement against the status-quo.

So you will see, just like Zardari was in jail one moment, and in the Presidency the next. And Nawaz Sharif was in self-imposed exile with sweets being distributed at his departure, and is now sitting pretty in Raiwind Palace, so too can Musharraf return. Why? Because the people here are not really capable of influencing the turn of political events. It is a series of understandings, deals, compromises etc. that determine who occupies the Aiwan-e-sadr.

To a lesser extent this happens in western democracies too, but obviously, the magnitude of this effect is larger in Pakistan.

Net-net, anyone that thinks there will be any real, sustainable mass protest at Musharraf's return doesn't understand a darn thing about politics in Pakistan.

 

[Rafael]

^^ I think you give too much credit to the people. Unfortunately, our people have never been sufficiently bothered to launch a full fledged mass agitation just to unseat a leader. Yes, they will attend rallies when you give them Rs. 300/man/day, transportation and two square meals, but they won't organize themselves and look out for their own interests on their own.

Just cast a glance at the situation today. Wouldn't you think the present government is less popular than Musharraf ever was? There is no mass agitation against them either. Nor will there be. Once the powers-that-be decide that the game is up, you will see jalsas and juloos, but these will all be organized, funded and carried out by a small cadre of political/establishment players. They are not spontaneous movements organized and executed by the masses. Have you not seen that cartoon, "Horn zor say na bajaien. Ye qaum so rahi hay."

In the words of that devil, Zia-ul-Haq, the people here are like sheep. As far as domestic issues go, they bleat faithfully and follow whoever has the stick. This is obviously a very cynical characterization, but history does bear out the refusal of our populace to organize themselves sufficiently and launch a real movement against the status-quo.

So you will see, just like Zardari was in jail one moment, and in the Presidency the next. And Nawaz Sharif was in self-imposed exile with sweets being distributed at his departure, and is now sitting pretty in Raiwind Palace, so too can Musharraf return. Why? Because the people here are not really capable of influencing the turn of political events. It is a series of understandings, deals, compromises etc. that determine who occupies the Aiwan-e-sadr.

To a lesser extent this happens in western democracies too, but obviously, the magnitude of this effect is larger in Pakistan.

Net-net, anyone that thinks there will be any real, sustainable mass protest at Musharraf's return doesn't understand a darn thing about politics in Pakistan.

What you have said was true up till March 2007 but the situation is getting better and we have seen at least two example, specially the long march of 2009, where a large number of people took to streets without getting influenced by their affiliation with respective political parties and the movement largely consisted of lawyers and civil society which included doctors, students, teachers etc. (No denying the fact that PML-N and PTI were actively involved but still you could find number of people who were ordinary citizens). However I agree that there is still a lot left to do in this regard.

My point is that why would establishment re-instate a "tainted" ex- president when they could easily find some one else to do the job and who is relatively cleaner? Another problem with Musharaff is that as soon as he lands in Pakistan, he shall be dragged into courts by several political parties mainly PML-N, which then could open the pandora box and create problems for the army.

 

[TechLahore]

Posting from my phone, so this won't be long.

Musharraf is the only or who has produced real economic results. PPP and PMLN have both tried and failed.

Musharraf also represents a moderate social position and is violently opposed to the mullahs who have sunk the country. This makes him preferable to Imran, for example, who is soft on WoT issues. NS has been way too involved with the Saudi worshipping cleric crowd that is at the root of radicalization in Pakistan to really be a serious alternative.

As for cases etc. this is the very chief justice who took oath under the lfo and happily served mr Musharraf for many years. It was only after his corruption (illegal placement of son etc.) was found out that he developed an issue with the government. Nawaz Sharif sat in Saudi Arabia and funded the lawyers movement. He also developed a back channel with the CJ. This guy as a judge is a bloody joke. In no civilized system would a man so politicised be allowed to hold this office.

The long march included some civil society types, but it was by and large a pmlN affair. And notice that everythig was defused in 2 hours by the ghq. All this shobdabazi is a joke. These political actors don't rely on the public, just as the public only shows up at their rallies for the food and 'attendance fee'

No mainstream political leader really commands the public's allegiance. Musharraf atleast has the mullah haters, army, mqm, pmlf/q, chattha, leghari, khurshid Kasuri and numerous others as his constituency. Not to mention a significant support base in urban centers and in rural areas that were developed during his tenure (count the number of miles of road in Baluchistan before and after Musharraf)

The situation is fast approaching a breaking point. Someone who can hit the ground running is required. And as for the religious nutcase opposition to him, perhaps it's a good thing. Draw em out and kick their a$$ good and proper. And I say this without qualification as to who is in power... The religious right has to be wiped out completely and the zia inspired mental indoctrination needs to be undone. Without that we will go from one crisis to another.

 

[razgriz19]

This eagle had a hair transplant done and a paintjob on the beak to make it look local . American eagle usually has a golden beak.

lol i think its a peregrine falcon (which is a symbol for PAF too)

btw its the fastest living thing on planet!!!

 

[Rafael]

Posting from my phone, so this won't be long.

Musharraf is the only or who has produced real economic results. PPP and PMLN have both tried and failed.

Musharraf also represents a moderate social position and is violently opposed to the mullahs who have sunk the country. This makes him preferable to Imran, for example, who is soft on WoT issues. NS has been way too involved with the Saudi worshipping cleric crowd that is at the root of radicalization in Pakistan to really be a serious alternative.

Yes, Musharaff's tenure has been fruitful for Pakistan as far as economy is concerned and most Pakistanis give credit to his government but at the same time Musharaff also gave a clear chit to BB and Zardari along with their thousands of corrupt colleagues under US pressure and trying to save his presidency, which are now creating havoc in the country and they have also destroyed the economy so that nullifies whatever he was to be credited with.

As for cases etc. this is the very chief justice who took oath under the lfo and happily served mr Musharraf for many years. It was only after his corruption (illegal placement of son etc.) was found out that he developed an issue with the government. Nawaz Sharif sat in Saudi Arabia and funded the lawyers movement. He also developed a back channel with the CJ. This guy as a judge is a bloody joke. In no civilized system would a man so politicised be allowed to hold this office.

The Cheif Justice was not removed due to his corruption (if there was any), rather it was the selling of profit-making state institutions such as steel mills at the cost of peanuts which CJ took notice and thankfully saved.

Can you provide me with some links or evidence that Nawaz Shareef financed that movement? And how about Musharaff himself? In no civilized world an army chief would take over a country and send its elected prime minister to jail, promise elections in 3 months and then take a U-turn, promise to take off his uniform and then again regret in
the so called "larger interests" of the country and last but not the least allow a criminal to return back, hand him over a clear chit for looting national wealth and run a campaign for presidency. Musharaff himself has done enough wrongs to be denied of any public office, let alone the presidency!

The long march included some civil society types, but it was by and large a pmlN affair. And notice that everythig was defused in 2 hours by the ghq. All this shobdabazi is a joke. These political actors don't rely on the public, just as the public only shows up at their rallies for the food and 'attendance fee'

No mainstream political leader really commands the public's allegiance. Musharraf atleast has the mullah haters, army, mqm, pmlf/q, chattha, leghari, khurshid Kasuri and numerous others as his constituency. Not to mention a significant support base in urban centers and in rural areas that were developed during his tenure (count the number of miles of road in Baluchistan before and after Musharraf)

The situation is fast approaching a breaking point. Someone who can hit the ground running is required. And as for the religious nutcase opposition to him, perhaps it's a good thing. Draw em out and kick their a$$ good and proper. And I say this without qualification as to who is in power... The religious right has to be wiped out completely and the zia inspired mental indoctrination needs to be undone. Without that we will go from one crisis to another.

The long march only came to an end after GHQ/govt. promised to restore the deposed judges. And regarding the support of the mqm/q-league/kasuri etc. what you have easily neglected is that Musharaff is no longer in power and these parties/politicians do not/ will not support him as a civilian leader. History has taught us that politicians and parties only support dictators when they are in power. Once they are gone, they are gone.

 

[TechLahore]

^^ You may not have noticed that one of the most significant contributions made during Musharraf's recent flood fundraising telethon was by Khurshid Kasuri. Sheikh Rashid, Pir Pagara, Mushahid Husain and others will be back in Musharraf's camp in 5 seconds if they feel the GHQ is supportive. And Musharraf is smart enough to orchestrate things in a way that he has the Army's support.

 

[DGMO]

Sheikh Rashid, Pir Pagara, Mushahid Husain and others will be back in Musharraf's camp in 5 seconds if they feel the GHQ is supportive. And Musharraf is smart enough to orchestrate things in a way that he has the Army's support.

Given GHQ is keeping its role in politics at a distance, do you honestly feel the PPP / PML-N and perhaps the judiciary will allow for their meddling?

Sheikh Rashid is non-committal to the idea of joining ranks and has said he doubts what impact he can make given he's not in Parliament. Of course he's a big name, but when you're no longer winning elections in your back yard, can you be considered an all-important powerful ally?

Then we come to the Chaudary's and likes of Mushahid. These are comments made by Chaudary Shujaat yesterday regarding Musharraf:

“Pervez Musharraf made three major mistakes - the Lal Mosque operation, the sacking of chief justice of Pakistan and the Balochistan operation that lead to the killing of Nawab Akbar Bugti,”​

LINK

Does that sound like a man looking to support Musharraf? I would like Musharraf to come back. But I feel he's isolated and exposed. The people are not with him, because he has no foot soldiers on the ground championing his causes, or campaiging for him or his party. Therefore he has to rely on the characters we mention above, but they aren't getting into bed with him.

We're 11 days away from the official and grand launch of the APML in London. Yet he has no significant backing in political circles in Pakistan. His party launched in Islamabad today, and where was the fanfare? Where was the backing or media exposure?

He has to fight court cases galore, and therefore a judicial mess to walk through before he can even think of campaigning and winning the people over.

In short, it's not a worthwhile exercise as he looks to be fighting a lost cause.

He can look back with pride on a lot of achievements he had. But by coming back, looking pretty hopeless, it's going to damage him further. I personally don't want to see that.