Forget Stealth: Russia's Su-35 Is the Plane the Air Force Should Worry About

[Tps43]

When is canada buying Su 35?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

When is canada buying Su 35?

Canada buy America planes because politics. Just like Algeria buy Russia planes because politics.

Russia would never sell arms to Canada because of Russia Canada relations.

 

[Tps43]

Canada buy America planes because politics. Just like Algeria buy Russia planes because politics.

Russia would never sell arms to Canada because of Russia Canada relations.

How about u lead a lobby in canada for buying russian hardware?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

How about u lead a lobby in canada for buying russian hardware?

Canada and America demographics changing to non white. It won't matter in the future anyway.

 

[Tps43]

Canada and America demographics changing to non white. It won't matter in the future anyway.

But If u don't start from today u gonna wait for centuries!!!!!!
So u must start building ur lobby

 

[CriticalThought]

Simple is relative. Su-35 is hardly a simple machine. It is so complex only a select few countries have the technology to make it.

Anyone who understands stealth knows what it takes to make something like the F-22. Instead, the Russians played to their strengths, and built on top of the existing Flanker platform by identifying the characteristics which they need to improve in order to beat the F-22. Simple indeed.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Anyone who understands stealth knows what it takes to make something like the F-22. Instead, the Russians played to their strengths, and built on top of the existing Flanker platform by identifying the characteristics which they need to improve in order to beat the F-22. Simple indeed.

Simple? Try make Su-35. It's one of the most complex pieces of machinery ever built by mankind. Don't underestimate it.

 

[CriticalThought]

Not a good comparison. The US only used M16. Russia used AK-47 and Dragunov combo. AK-47 is short range. Dragunov is medium range. In terms of accuracy, Dragunov trumps M16.

If you don't know about the famous AK-47 vs M-16 rivalry, you have been living somewhere in a cave. There is no need to drag the Dragunov into the discussion, and there is no need to go off on a tangent in a thread on SU-35. Stick to the topic and don't try to act too smart.

Simple? Try make Su-35. It's one of the most complex pieces of machinery ever built by mankind. Don't underestimate it.

You have serious comprehension issues. Go learn English.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

If you don't know about the famous AK-47 vs M-16 rivalry, you have been living somewhere in a cave. There is no need to drag the Dragunov into the discussion, and there is no need to go off on a tangent in a thread on SU-35. Stick to the topic and don't try to act too smart.

AK-47 and Dragunov were a combo. You cannot compare AK-47 without Dragunov.

Anyway, modern AK-12 is as accurate as M16A4. Su-35 is not counterpart of AK-47. Su-35 is counterpart of AK-12.

AK-12 and Su-35 are complex machines, not simple machines.

 

[CriticalThought]

AK-47 and Dragunov were a combo. You cannot compare AK-47 without Dragunov.

Anyway, modern AK-12 is as accurate as M16A4. Su-35 is not counterpart of AK-47. Su-35 is counterpart of AK-12.

AK-12 and Su-35 are complex machines, not simple machines.

*facepalm* In addition to learning English, take a course in logical reasoning or discrete maths.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

*facepalm* In addition to learning English, take a course in logical reasoning or discrete maths.

You are the one who says Russian machines are simple. I'm the one who says Russian machines are complex. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[CriticalThought]

You are the one who says Russian machines are simple. I'm the one who says Russian machines are complex. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

No, I have nowhere stated that Russian machines are complex. I am saying the Russian design approach is simple. Two different things.

 

[SQ8]

The contention between Soviet philosophy and American philosophy is famous. AK-47 vs M-16. KGB vs CIA. Now, there is a design war shaping up between Russia and America. And this time, the Russians have hindsight to guide them.

In continuation of Soviet philosophy to keep things simple, the Russians have avoided overly complicated stealth that gives less benefits as radar technologies mature. The article is a very balanced presentation. What it doesn't discuss is the final trump card that F-22 wields today: LPI radar. If the Russians can either jam it, or spoof it, or use limited stealth to subvert it, then F-35 backed by A-100 will be a deadly combination. I am truly hoping that PAF is keeping on top of these developments.

@messiach @Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777

The article takes piecemeal scenarios rather than the entire picture. Modern air combat is about connected assets looking for earlier detection and shooting from longer ranges. The design of the F-22 and F-35 all but guarantees first look first shot. So while supermaneuverability may be useful in dodging missiles, against the F-22 and F-35 fielding the aim-9x it holds no advantage. As recent airshows have shows as well, neither of lockheed’s offers are slouches in the air.

Today’s air combat is a game of chess spread out over hundreds of miles and not the furballs of yesterday.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

No, I have nowhere stated that Russian machines are complex. I am saying the Russian design approach is simple. Two different things.

You compared AK-47 to M16A1. I compare AK-12 to M16A4. You say Su-35 is like AK-47, simple. I say Su-35 is like AK-12, complex. You and I do not agree on the eras of the machines.

The article takes piecemeal scenarios rather than the entire picture. Modern air combat is about connected assets looking for earlier detection and shooting from longer ranges. The design of the F-22 and F-35 all but guarantees first look first shot. So while supermaneuverability may be useful in dodging missiles, against the F-22 and F-35 fielding the aim-9x it holds no advantage. As recent airshows have shows as well, neither of lockheed’s offers are slouches in the air.

Today’s air combat is a game of chess spread out over hundreds of miles and not the furballs of yesterday.

Today's combat is system vs system, not plane vs plane. F-22 and F-35 still need airbases. Airbases are vulnerable to ALCM. You won't find Su-35 alone. You won't find F-22 alone. They are both part of huge complex battle systems spanning land air sea space.

 

[CriticalThought]

The article takes piecemeal scenarios rather than the entire picture. Modern air combat is about connected assets looking for earlier detection and shooting from longer ranges. The design of the F-22 and F-35 all but guarantees first look first shot. So while supermaneuverability may be useful in dodging missiles, against the F-22 and F-35 fielding the aim-9x it holds no advantage. As recent airshows have shows as well, neither of lockheed’s offers are slouches in the air.

Today’s air combat is a game of chess spread out over hundreds of miles and not the furballs of yesterday.

The A-100 has a detection range of 600 km. Paired with a VLRAAM on Su-35, it is a deadly combination for which F-22 and F-35 have no answer - by design. And if the Russians can jam the AMRAAM, it's game over for the Americans. Furthermore, supermaneuverability means the aircraft can exhibit unexpected flight patterns to throw off radar locks. In close combat, the SU-35 will have definite potential energy advantage. The Flanker will be looking to gain height so AIM-9X will be less effective. But let's not forget that Mig-29s introduced HMD/S to the world of dog fighting. The Russians are no slouches either.

The point is, the Russians have a formidable fighter, and it would be imprudent on our part to completely ignore the Russian philosophy.