Foreign Secretary Jaishankar visits China ahead of NSG plenary in Seoul

[Laozi]

Foreign Secretary Jaishankar visits China ahead of NSG plenary in Seoul
China has been strongly opposing India's membership at the premier club arguing that it was not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty

Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar made an unannounced visit to Beijing in order to discuss India’s NSG bid with China which has been vehemently opposing it. (Source: Express file photo by Renuka Puri)

Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar made an unannounced visit to Beijing on June 16-17 to enlist support for India’s bid for membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group which is being opposed by China.

Jaishankar’s visit came a week ahead of the plenary meeting of the 48-nation atomic trading bloc scheduled to be held in Seoul on June 24 where India’s membership is likely to be discussed.

“Yes, I can confirm Foreign Secretary visited Beijing on June 16-17 for bilateral consultations with his Chinese counterpart. All major issues, including India’s NSG membership, were discussed,” External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Vikas Swarup said on Sunday
China has been strongly opposing India’s membership at the premier club arguing that it was not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

Earlier in the week, China’s official media said India’s NSG membership would “jeopardise” China’s national interests besides touching a “raw nerve” in Pakistan. The Chinese Foreign Ministry had said a week back that members of the NSG “remain divided” on the issue of non-NPT countries joining it and called for “full discussions”.

India has been reaching out to NSG member countries seeking support for its membership of the bloc whose members are allowed to trade in and export nuclear technology.

The US has backed India and asked various NSG members to support New Delhi’s bid.

It is understood that a number of countries including Turkey, South Africa, Ireland and New Zealand were not in favour of India’s entry into the NSG.

India had managed to secure support of NSG members Switzerland and Mexico during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s recent visit to these two countries as part of a five-nation tour. Mexico and Switzerland were known to have strong nuclear proliferation concerns and were not in favour of allowing NSG membership to countries which were not signatory to NPT.

The NSG works under the principle of unanimity and even one country’s vote against India will scuttle its bid.

India’s access to the NSG, a body that regulates the global trade of nuclear technology, is expected to open up the international market for India’s domestic nuclear energy programme.

India has been campaigning for membership of the bloc for last few years and had formally moved its application on May 12.

The NSG had granted an exclusive waiver to India in 2008 to access civil nuclear technology after China reluctantly backed India’s case based on the Indo-US nuclear deal.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...china-ahead-of-the-nsg-plenary-seoul-2862376/

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So what is India offering besides the reactor deals and the industrial park deals?

Please don't tell me you with pay us with "goodwill" again. Next time you have to pay your taxes, try paying with goodwill and I'm sure they will accept it.

 

[Piper]

So what is India offering besides the reactor deals and the industrial park deals?

Please don't tell me you with pay us with "goodwill" again. Next time you have to pay your taxes, try paying with goodwill and I'm sure they will accept it. Maybe try selling your house in exchange for goodwill.

The biggest thing India can offer to China is support on SCS, officially Indian and Chinese position at UN align as both India and China are against FONOPS in territorial waters but India has been playing a double game by temporary backing the US. This is a huge concern for China as outside of Russia they have no backers among major powers. Also the UNCLOS verdict is coming soon and with Indian support they can wither ensuing storm diplomatically.

However the downside to India is that if it supports China then public and political opinion in US is quick adverse and US is most likely to take adversarial position when it comes to defense supplies and it's aspirations at UNSC.

Best case scenario for India would be to abstain as it did on Crimea but abstention is unlikely to get them Chinese backing in NSG

 

[Fireurimagination]

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The biggest thing India can offer to China is support on SCS.

Ehhh.... rather have something with monetary value.

What will India backing us in the SCS achieve? Nothing. America has already threatened to take "action" against China if we do not stop island building. (Of course we have not stopped island building).

How would India siding with us there, have changed the outcome?

It's like paying your electricity bill with goodwill. No monetary value.

 

[Piper]

Ehhh.... rather have something with monetary value.

What will India backing us in the SCS achieve? Nothing. America has already threatened to take "action" against China if we do not stop island building. (Of course we have not stopped island building).

How would India siding with us there, have changed the outcome?

It's like paying your electricity bill with goodwill. No monetary value.

Lol! China is not lacking in monetary heft for which they would need India. What China lacks is diplomatic support and stands to get isolated out and thus picked off.

China all said and done is still a export driven country and you are beginning to see the contours of protectionist policies in both US and Europe which are China's biggest money making bases. When orders of steel, automobiles, electronics, electrical goods start tapering off, China is going to feel the heavy pinch and all it's trillion dollar reserves is going to drop off pretty quickly.

In such a scenario China needs another cash cow! and India well it is a land of cows isn't it

But carry on! Piss off India and no one would be happier than me!! You would be doing our work for us.

 

[Panther421]

I don't think he can convince china..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Lol! China is not lacking in monetary heft for which they would need India. What China lacks is diplomatic support and stands to get isolated out and thus picked off.

China all said and done is still a export driven country and you are beginning to see the contours of protectionist policies in both US and Europe which are China's biggest money making bases. When orders of steel, automobiles, electronics, electrical goods start tapering off, China is going to feel the heavy pinch and all it's trillion dollar reserves is going to drop off pretty quickly.

In such a scenario China needs another cash cow! and India well it is a land of cows isn't it

But carry on! Piss off India and no one would be happier than me!! You would be doing our work for us.

LOL this is realistic geopolitics, nothing to do with intangible concepts like "good will" and "pissing off".

The only thing that matters is, does it serve our national interests?

Tell me, will India help us to build islands in the SCS when America warns again of "severe action"? Obviously not, India imports most of their weapons from the USA, they can't afford to get cut off.

It was never going to happen.

As for trade, no one is buying from China because of "good will", they are buying from us because we are the most competitive. And they want to sell their products to us, because we have the largest number of consumers.

Why do you think America never sanctioned China when we seized territory from the Philippines in 2012, despite America having a full mutual defence treaty with the Philippines? You think they are doing us a favour? No, like everyone else, they work for their national interests.

 

[Devil Soul]

Jaishankar made 'unannounced' China visit to woo Beijing for NSG membership: report
DAWN.COM — UPDATED ABOUT A MINUTE AGO
NEW DELHI: Indian Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar visited Beijing last week to discuss Chinese support for entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), Indian diplomatic sources confirmed on Sunday, according to a report on The Hindu.

Indian Foreign Office Spokesman Vikas Swarup said Jaishankar had discussed "all major issues, including India’s membership to the NSG during his visit to Beijing" on his visit to Beijing from June 16-17.

A meeting between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping may also be on the cards at an upcoming Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) summit in Tashkent, Uzbekistan this week.

The NSG is a 48-nation club dedicated to curbing nuclear arms proliferation by controlling the export and re-transfer of materials that could foster nuclear weapons development.

The group's membership has signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty but India has refused to do so.

India already enjoys most of the benefits of membership under a 2008 exemption to NSG rules granted to support its nuclear cooperation deal with Washington, even though India has developed atomic weapons and never signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the main global arms control pact.

Opponents argue that granting it membership would further undermine efforts to prevent proliferation.

China has led the opposition to a push by the United States (US) and other major powers for India to join the main club of countries controlling access to sensitive nuclear technology,

Last week, Indian media quoted a state-run Chinese daily as saying a US-backed move to make India a member of the NSG will be good neither for Pakistan nor for China, and would set off nuclear instability in South Asia.

The paper’s op-ed commentary, titled "India mustn’t let nuclear ambitions blind itself", feared that New Delhi’s NSG membership would set off a nuclear confrontation in the region.

Earlier this month, a New York Times (NYT) editorial said India's membership of NSG is "not merited until the country meets the group's standards".

If India is successful in gaining entry to the group, it could keep Pakistan from gaining membership because group decisions are made through consensus.

"That could give Pakistan, which at one time provided nuclear technology to North Korea and Iran, new incentives to misbehave," the NYT editorial said.

However, the NYT said, China's opposition to India could doom the India's bid for membership "for now".

The editorial goes on to say that India should be required to meet the NSG's standards, "including opening negotiations with Pakistan and China on curbing nuclear weapons and halting the production of nuclear fuel for bombs".

 

[Laozi]

Please don't tell me you with pay us with "goodwill" again. Next time you have to pay your taxes, try paying with goodwill and I'm sure they will accept it.

It's like paying your electricity bill with goodwill. No monetary value.

You seems to be very materialistic and regard goodwill worthless

I hope Chinese Government does share your views

In case everyone in China thinks the way you do, then Pakistan who is lately generating a lot of goodwill for China will feel like a mighty loser

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You seems to be very materialistic and regard goodwill worthless

Obviously goodwill matters in your personal life, but NOT in geopolitics.

America has a lot of "goodwill" for the Philippines. They have a full "mutual defence treaty" with the Philippines, the Philippines is a former American colony as well as one of their oldest allies in the world.

Now tell me, where was America... when China seized the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012?

What happened to the "mutual defence treaty"? Where are the sanctions?

The goodwill was worth nothing at all, America abandoned their mutual defence treaty as their ally was losing territory, then they sent Hillary Clinton to ask China to loan them more money.

Same when Vietnam lost the Paracel islands to China. Same when the Ukraine lost Crimea to Russia. Same when Georgia lost half their territory to Russia.

In case everyone in China thinks the way you do, then Pakistan who is lately generating a lot of goodwill for China will feel like a mighty loser

Why would Pakistan be upset? They have CPEC which is actually a real tangible thing, not flowery words and political fluff.

 

[Laozi]

Obviously goodwill matters in your personal life, but NOT in geopolitics.

America has a lot of "goodwill" for the Philippines. They have a full "mutual defence treaty" with the Philippines, the Philippines is a former American colony as well as one of their oldest allies in the world.

Now tell me, where was America... when China seized the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines in 2012?

What happened to the "mutual defence treaty"? Where are the sanctions?

The goodwill was worth nothing at all, America abandoned their mutual defence treaty as their ally was losing territory, then they sent Hillary Clinton to ask China to loan them more money.

Same when Vietnam lost the Paracel islands to China. Same when the Ukraine lost Crimea to Russia. Same when Georgia lost half their territory to Russia.

Thank you for making your point amply clear. I hope that our neighbour will understand your subtle message that she is on her own and not to rely on other shoulders to shoot.

Why would Pakistan be upset? They have CPEC which is actually a real tangible thing, not flowery words and political fluff.

Again thank you for letting the world know that CPEC is not some kind of gift or a friendly/political goodwill gesture but a tangible Business opportunity for China

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

So what is India offering besides the reactor deals and the industrial park deals?

Please don't tell me you with pay us with "goodwill" again. Next time you have to pay your taxes, try paying with goodwill and I'm sure they will accept it.

I don't think- India would want Chinese reactors- What version are you talking about ? Candu ? we already make Candus and have run one of these for a record period- May be Infrastructure deals- Industrial parks would also be a big no even If GoI wants- Environmentalists will never allow Chinese Industrial parks especially given the bad record of these Industries when It comes to environment elsewhere and even in China- and I don't think China has the capability to reach them out- It can pay some of them and bribe them but It reach will be limited-

Coming to NSG- India's entry doesn't bring much benefit- We are already doing business with major NSG members- at best It is an entry into an elite club which was formed to isolate India back in 74 when we did our 1st Nuclear tests-

Now the Chinese opposition to India's entry would find them alone- Just today I saw Putin expressing support to India and saying he will ask China why they are opposing India- now this is big after US now Russia too is standing behind India on this openly- It is a great diplomatic win for India- It has already isolated China- Which again is insulting to China- India is no US or Japan- It's a mere regional power 1/5 of China's economic muscle yet It managed to do that- Something is very wrong with Chinese diplomats- What are they waiting for next ? Vietnam and Philippines to isolate them- I understand China is a 10 trillion USD economy with 3 trillion in reserves but such diplomatic losses won't go well with Its world image of a rising power- Even Soviets had Warsaw pact and India with them Who are with the Chinese ? Pakistan ? North Korea ? and at what benefit from Pakistan- and does Pakistan has option to question China ? Last time China blocked India's request to ban a terrorists- What image are your diplomats trying to bring out of China is today's world-

I doubted Pakistan's diplomatic capabilities and thought US were a little stupid- but now when I see the Chinese- I would really applaud their skills- they way they make Superpowers dance to their tunes is truly amazing-

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I don't think- India would want Chinese reactors- What version are you talking about ? Candu ? we already make Candus and have run one of these for a record period- May be Infrastructure deals- Industrial parks would also be a big no even If GoI wants- Environmentalists will never allow Chinese Industrial parks especially given the bad record of these Industries when It comes to environment elsewhere and even in China- and I don't think China has the capability to reach them out- It can pay some of them and bribe them but It reach will be limited-

Coming to NSG- India's entry doesn't bring much benefit- We are already doing business with major NSG members- at best It is an entry into an elite club which was formed to isolate India back in 74 when we did our 1st Nuclear tests-

Now the Chinese opposition to India's entry would find them alone- Just today I saw Putin expressing support to India and saying he will ask China why they are opposing India- now this is big after US now Russia too is standing behind India on this openly- It is a great diplomatic win for India- It has already isolated China- Which again is insulting to China- India is no US or Japan- It's a mere regional power 1/5 of China's economic muscle yet It managed to do that- Something is very wrong with Chinese diplomats- What are they waiting for next ? Vietnam and Philippines to isolate them- I understand China is a 10 trillion USD economy with 3 trillion in reserves but such diplomatic losses won't go well with Its world image of a rising power- Even Soviets had Warsaw pact and India with them Who are with the Chinese ? Pakistan ? North Korea ? and at what benefit from Pakistan- and does Pakistan has option to question China ? Last time China blocked India's request to ban a terrorists- What image are your diplomats trying to bring out of China is today's world-

I doubted Pakistan's diplomatic capabilities and thought US were a little stupid- but now when I see the Chinese- I would really applaud their skills- they way they make Superpowers dance to their tunes is truly amazing-

The problem with all of that, is that we don't care what foreigners think.

We're over that. India still seems to be in that phase where they make decisions based on what Westerners want.

For us, all that matters is our national interests. If India doesn't want to play ball, we can veto their entry into the NSG and the UNSC without thinking twice.

India has underestimated China before, to their detriment. And what they lost was a real tangible thing, a large chunk of territory.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

The problem with all of that, is that we don't care what foreigners think.

We're over that. India still seems to be in that phase where they make decisions based on what Westerners want.

For us, all that matters is our national interests. If India doesn't want to play ball, we can veto their entry into the NSG and the UNSC without thinking twice.

India has underestimated China before, to their detriment. And what they lost was a real tangible thing, a large chunk of territory.

Yes India Underestimated China then- But China didn't- It quietly walked back behind to pre- 1962 position- leaving all that land for India once again- And that was smart of them-

But when I see you saying- We don't care what foreigners think- I hope Its not the current mental state of your bureaucratic diplomatic officers and leaders- No country in the world is over that- Even If there were to be country on Mars and people here on earth knew about It even then that Martian country would definitely be keen on what us foreigner think about them-

Every country has their own national interest- I doubt blocking India is your National Interest or vetoing bans on dreaded terrorists- I heard Just recently there was a terrorist attack there- It seems China too is like west- It won't realize unless the problem hits the door with a bang- no country is immune to It- US thought it was before 9/11 happened-