Foreign hand behind Fata unrest: Peshawar corps commander

[SMC]

Sir what he said was:

"ohh please, learn to introspect sometimes atleast, blame the " Foreign hand " and never look at what your doing wrong in the first place."

Sure, his tone might have been a little provocative but I certainly didn't interpret that as him "implying that it must be your own problem."

Basically what I gleaned from his comment was that you mustn't jump to blame others for your problems. You must try to keep an open mind as to what might be causing the problem.

Wouldn't you agree?


Regarding India, the West and what desiman has posted before: I don't quite see how this fits into your argument. Sounds like a rant to me.

Anyway mate, forget about this whole business of interpretation. I am interpreting it based on my experience but who cares, it's no big deal.

Regarding this whole business of introspection, let me tell you what we know. It's not relevant whether you think it's true or not, but it relates to why some believe what they believe. We have insider ISI and army information that confirms that India is heavily involved in supporting terrorist groups in FATA and other areas. What is happening is that the US is pressuring us to not to publicly release any evidence of Indian involvement as it will have an affect on WoT. So therefore some blame India while at the same time blaming the government for not doing anything about it.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Anyway mate, forget about this whole business of interpretation. I am interpreting it based on my experience but who cares, it's no big deal.

Regarding this whole business of introspection, let me tell you what we know. It's not relevant whether you think it's true or not, but it relates to why some believe what they believe. We have insider ISI and army information that confirms that India is heavily involved in supporting terrorist groups in FATA and other areas. What is happening is that the US is pressuring us to not to publicly release any evidence of Indian involvement as it will have an affect on WoT. So therefore some blame India while at the same time blaming the government for not doing anything about it.

That's fine by me. Only thing I would say is: How do you know that the ISI or the army has any evidence linking India to Fata insurgencies? I mean if the the proof isn't publicly available then there's no way I can be sure is there. How do I know that these claims are nothing but fabrications? Unless you are a member of the ISI or the army and you tell me that you have the evidence... Then it would be a case of whether or not I believe you.

Either way mate, logic tells me that you need the evidence, otherwise all our arguments are nothing but speculation.

 

[SMC]

That's fine by me. Only thing I would say is: How do you know that the ISI or the army has any evidence linking India to Fata insurgencies? I mean if the the proof isn't publicly available then there's no way I can be sure is there. How do I know that these claims are nothing but fabrications? Unless you are a member of the ISI or the army and you tell me that you have the evidence... Then it would be a case of whether or not I believe you.

Either way mate, logic tells me that you need the evidence, otherwise all our arguments are nothing but speculation.

Several insiders in ISI and army have confirmed this. Yes the proof isn't in public. These insiders have only told this to the people they know and trust. The proof isn't public because US has heavily pressured Pakistan to do exactly that - not make it public - as it has heavy repercussions for their WoT efforts.

Now, again, I am not here to make you believe that India is involved in terrorism, no. It would be perfectly reasonable to not accept what I am saying as there's no proof in public. But the point I am trying to make is why some people believe what they believe. The point isn't really whether you think the claims are manufactured.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Another point I would make:

“Involvement of foreign hand in Fata could not be ruled out as we have solid proof in this regard which has been submitted to the quarters concerned for taking necessary action,” he stressed.

The commander says that involvement of a third party could not be ruled out suggesting that the insurgencies are more than likely an internal issue. Then he goes on to say that they have "solid proof". Seems a bit contradictory, doesn't it?

 

[Dalai Lama]

Several insiders in ISI and army have confirmed this. Yes the proof isn't in public. These insiders have only told this to the people they know and trust. The proof isn't public because US has heavily pressured Pakistan to do exactly that - not make it public - as it has heavy repercussions for their WoT efforts.

Now, again, I am not here to make you believe that India is involved in terrorism, no. It would be perfectly reasonable to not accept what I am saying as there's no proof in public. But the point I am trying to make is why some people believe what they believe. The point isn't really whether you think the claims are manufactured.

Well that's perfect. I understand why some people believe what they believe. However I still feel that these people are naive to believe something without proof. Accusing another country of causing insurgencies in your country isn't a mundane matter.

 

[SMC]

Another point I would make:



The commander says that involvement of a third party could not be ruled out suggesting that the insurgencies are more than likely an internal issue. Then he goes on to say that they have "solid proof". Seems a bit contradictory, doesn't it?

Not necessarily. He might be referring to those who have ruled out the possibility. He might have been answering a question. There may have been a mistranslation (typical in South Asian journalism), or if he was speaking English then he wasn't great at English. It would be quite stupid to say that in a general sense.

 

[SMC]

Well that's perfect. I understand why some people believe what they believe. However I still feel that these people are naive to believe something without proof. Accusing another country of causing insurgencies in your country isn't a mundane matter.

Fair enough, but remember that it works both ways. Pakistan is accused too without any evidence, or very weak evidence (such as paid afghan informants' words). Plenty of Indians do such, yet then accuse Pakistanis of believing in conspiracy theories. I am not suggesting you're one of those, but the point is that it happens with people of your own nationality (and to an extent in the west) as well.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Not necessarily. He might be referring to those who have ruled out the possibility. He might have been answering a question. There may have been a mistranslation (typical in South Asian journalism), or if he was speaking English then he wasn't great at English. It would be quite stupid to say that in a general sense.

Point taken.

But if we start introducing these variables to every article we read, then we won't be able to say anything for sure. I was assuming that the article was a meticulously edited one.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Fair enough, but remember that it works both ways. Pakistan is accused too without any evidence, or very weak evidence (such as paid afghan informants' words). Plenty of Indians do such, yet then accuse Pakistanis of believing in conspiracy theories. I am not suggesting you're one of those, but the point is that it happens with people of your own nationality (and to an extent in the west) as well.

Well that's bound to happen isn't it. Every nation has it's fair share of ignorami.

EDIT: have a look at the second line of my signature. I find it helps a lot.

 

[SMC]

Point taken.

But if we start introducing these variables to every article we read, then we won't be able to say anything for sure. I was assuming that the article was a meticulously edited one.

If there's only a few sources reporting something then it's more likely that such thing occurs. And it's quite common in the media of Pakistan. I think it'd be unlikely that he spoke in English, considering that the seminar was aimed at army personnel.

Well that's bound to happen isn't it. Every nation has it's fair share of ignorami.

EDIT: have a look at the second line of my signature. I find it helps a lot.

Yeah, fair enough.

 

[Dalai Lama]

If there's only a few sources reporting something then it's more likely that such thing occurs. And it's quite common in the media of Pakistan. I think it'd be unlikely that he spoke in English, considering that the seminar was aimed at army personnel.



Yeah, fair enough.

Good. Shall we leave it at that then?

 

[SMC]

Absolutely. Man I really don't want to be involved in these long discussions because they take so much time, but they are so tempting that I do it anyway.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, now that Wikileaks is on the scene, all Pakistan has to do is "leak" their solid proof to ..... Wikileaks! If the USA complains, just say: "Sorry!, we couldn't help it. How about you? Could you stop the raging gusher of leaks about us?????" Anyway, I suspect that there is NO solid proof or it would have been leaked by now. Blaming the USA for not being able to name and prove the "foreign hand" is just more Pakistani Yankee-bashing, currently the 2nd favorite Pakistani national sport (after the first sport, internecine killing.)

 

[Bratva]

Seriously SMC im not arguing with you again on this, you have your opinions and I have mine. Mine might look childish to you but yours look stupid to me so lets keep it at that. Pakistan's obsession with the "Foreign Hand" is well known and im just commenting on that. Its you who comes down to personal comments to get your point across, its obvious who is real child is, please dont mention me in your post as im not interested in indulging in sort of an argument with you and wasting my time.

Mr.Desi Man, who is a more learned man, You or A man who is commanding a a division which is actually battling in that rugged areas and that man takes input from it's battling units then he made that claim, Whose argument has more weight? Argument of a arm chair general or the argument of a Real Life General?

 

[insomniac00]

afcourse just like pakistan has no hand in the struggle of kashmiris ...