For those planning on Moving to Pakistan

[Dr-who]

Most here actually dont live in Pakistan. I live in Pakistan and am telling u that only a dumb idiot would move to Pakistan. The only ppl that can vome here maybe the ones that are rich and have incomes from properties and businesses abroad and have a foreign passport handy, so just in case can buy a ticket and go. If u r this rich and have foreign nationality, i would still recommend NOT to move to Pakistan with family. Why? Because here ud have to put ur kids in school, there is no safety, u or ur kids could be abducted for ransom. Heck you could be killed by a moron in a road rage or due to moronic driving by those transport drivers. You can be abducted by the state for expressing ur views too loudly. If you r rich, u certainly will be monitored and followed by our lumber 1 mafia, not for ur peotection but for their own purposes. Heck the lumber 1 might hand u over to abductors and claim their commission. Every deppt, every office, hospital etc ud havt to pay rishwat to get through, id have to deal with each n every type of corrupt. You cant even trust ur household workers and chowkidars, they might sell u off to an abductor and get a cut. In the end a mullah is always there to declare u kafir or gustakh and u may not be able to take the land that u pay for.
So only a delusional dumb idiot with no grasp on reality will move to Pakistan.

Your absolutely correct
But residing in Middle East with prospect of citizenship and aging parents back at home is the main reason thinking of going back

Or could try for PR Canada, at least parents get dependents visa

 

[Imran Khan]

What if family wants to move back and you don’t?

Btw, I heard that waiting time for visa in some embassies is relatively longer than usual. Someone i know wanted to come to eu on visit and est time is 3-4 months. Previously he used to get that within a month max

Then ether let them go and face it or take them short trip to see situation

 

[313ghazi]

Heck you could be killed by a moron in a road rage or due to moronic driving by those transport drivers.

@AlKardai - another point - you'll never enjoy driving in Pakistan. They drive like savages, so much unneccasary stress.

 

[Tamerlane]

I was told a story about an engineer from Lahore who went to Karachi for a consulting assignment at a factory. He hired a taxi for a few days for his trips to the factory and became friends with the driver.

The driver told him that his job is to inform people who work for Zardari every detail of well off people who ride with him, including their address etc. Then they abduct the person and get ransom. But since they were friends he won’t inform on the engineer.

The engineer moved to Canada.

Almost all crime in Pakistan is controlled by the people in power. Money moves this way:

Victim (you) —> Criminal —> Police —> Politicians —> Army officers

 

[xyxmt]

If you decided to move to Pakistan, first thing you need to do is get your head examined

 

[VCheng]

Children are screwed anyway, raising them in US mean kids will have low self-esteem, American Born Confused Desi (ABCD). Always trying to fit in, which will F’up his overall personality. Raising them in Pakistan means lack of opportunities but he will know da faq he is all about and won’t get easily bullied when back in US.

Best bet is solid connection with home country, yearly vacation or few years in home country with solid grasp of family and relationships and when it’s time for higher studies and job; back to US.

I have both types (cousin from different Aunt/Uncles ) in my family and I can observe the difference.

I would contend the opposite, but I would not like to take this thread off-topic. Let me just say that the ABCD stereotype is only a manifestation of the failure of the prior generation in ensuring that their children do not pay the price of their parents inadequacies in adapting to an entirely new environment. A similar process can happen with the reverse move, as shown by the equally confused creatures found in Islamabad pretending they are in Miami, and failing spectacularly, just to keep it on topic here.

 

[AlKardai]

Wapis wohi log atay hain which were from a higher society, went there, earning in USD or GBP or whatever, and then have a fallback as well. The reason is mostly so that their children can learn Urdu and grow up in a Pakistani environment.

Jo log apna sab kuch laga kar Pakistan say jatay hain and have a new life abroad, aur jin ko kuch bahar nay hi banaya hota hai, they seldom come back. At least in my experience.

The reason will be to protect the Iman of my future children and the culture of our family.
I have seen the state of the new generation here and they are awfully close to losing their religious identity, almost entirely.
I understand that Western culture and immorality has seeped into Pakistan at its lowest levels, but I aim to properly protect my family from this and to live according to true Muslim values.

Invest in US, get safe passive income and live a luxurious life in Pakistan. Buy a house in posh area, and get a 4x4 suv. People will respect you automatically. House help and food is cheap.

I would say, once luxury vehicles like SUV and house in upscale neighborhood is secured. Than $4k -$5k per month will suffice you enough to living and travel every other month to Mideast or every 6 months to US.

That was my overall idea. I was originally scanning through DHA valley properties due to the safety and close proximity of education and healthcare, but I am seriously reconsidering this now.

Reason most people (99%) don’t move back to Pakistan; is because their source of income is hooked to their 9-5 job.

Everyone intend go back when they first arrive to a foreign country than life happens and 9-5 slavery to pay bills.

That has been the case for pretty much the entire previous generation. They came to the foreign countries, sent money back to build their lives, but their children wished to stay within the foreign countries.
That's why you have so many starkly empty mansions within Pakistan, which only act as holiday homes for the first generation.

@AlKardai if you plan to live in AJK be prepared for a decrease in the things you take for granted.

There is no real job market so have skills and a client base abroad where you can provide a service and earn in $, £ and €. Say for example you have your own company providing IT solutions.

Alternatively invest in businesses in PK that run on expat money. Shops, restaurants, wedding halls, car hire - but don't trust any partners - you will get fleeced. You could do some research and invest in micro manufacturing of products for export. Definitely learn e-commerce before you jump.

Yes, I'm planning on running a very independent ship when I get over there. Many people I know have been fleeced good and proper, even when trusting expat businesses.
I have a good couple of contacts and I hope I can make a couple more within the Institutions. (My family already have some contacts in different places)

Farmland is useful. Grown your own food, cattle, milk, fruit veg. This way you won't be impacted as much by food shortages.

You won't have decent electricity so setup solar in your home and places of business.

No more German cars, buy a hilux or a land cruiser. Ideally take one over with you if you plan to stay - they're much cheaper in the UK. With the toyota at least the parts and expertise is available locally.

Healthcare is a joke compared to the NHS. Serious illness needs treating in Islamabad - ambulances have to be hired and nobody has a medical record. Google what doctors give you - they give out anti biotics like candy.

AJK is just an option for me, as I have family there. But as with all things, I can't really trust them very much, nor do I really wish to live around them due to their own greed.
I was definitely considering importing a land cruiser or two over there, seeing how much they cost in Pakistan.
Solar Panels and backup generators is definitely something that I am already planning, as well as buying farmland as a small set of consumable aid for my household.

Send your kids to private schools where they learn o-levels and a-levels. Start building businesses for them and get them business savvy early. There are no jobs and no decent middle class lifestyle.

If it were me - I'd live in Islamabad and get some farmland nearby. Punjab is more fertile than AJK anyway.

Absolutely, I was planning on continuously expanding the abroad real estate, whilst making sure that my children have a Pakistani upbringing instead.

Also make links with people and be prepared to pay bribes. You need the links for the bribes to be effective.

Also get a gun licence, be armed, setup cctv and don't keep your guns a secret. People may come for your money - less likely if they know your packing.

As someone who has experienced this kind of thing straight up, I definitely know the value of good security.
If I wish to remain in AJK, I don't think I will stay there with just my own family, but probably persuade more expats and relatives to come over and properly build our own community there, as I have met quite a few like minded people who would do this if more people were planning on doing so.

Another major reason why people don’t go back is because of family. When you live abroad and your kids are born there, they don’t want to have anything to do with Pakistan any more. Most of the time wives also don’t want to go back. Only old men go back.

Watch this BBC documentary about old men returning to Pakistan alone and building large homes. When they die their kids come back, sell the house and go back.

It’s a fallacy to imagine that if there’s a good government all the overseas Pakistanis will return. Maybe from the Middle East where they don’t have nationality, but not from the West.

I definitely know people who would be more willing to return if they see a good government in place, or even if they start seeing other people who have taken the plunge and made the best out of it.

I think I seen this year ago, this situation arises when you already gave birth to second generation and they are grown up. I am talking about those who immigrated from Pakistan hoping to return back in year or so than life happens.

These people build houses from their 9-5 job abroad. Let suppose they had the opportunity of building house with passive income while living in with family, even as a vacation home few months every year, than these kids would have memories and friends in the area. Now their kids have no reason to return.

The final paragraph really hits home with me. Many people I know have sprawling mansions in Pakistan, and their families only visit them once or twice, but otherwise they are left to rot and be stolen from. People in my family especially, have tens of houses just lying there- the problem of miserliness is very real,

Good thread, but first and foremost the question here is;

1. Are you coming back with significant means to support yourself - perhaps enter agriculture or commerce?

2. Are you seeking gainful employment?

If it is the latter, I would strongly recommend you do comprehensive research prior to committing. Perhaps do a dry run and come and stay for a month or so, rent is expensive so ideally you want to purchase your own property- if you purchase a large property and have a small family, you can rent out a portion of your home to a professional family for extra cash.

If you have significant means, there is no better place to live than Pakistan. Trust me on that.

1) Yes, as I am slowly beginning to transfer to investable real estate assets in the UK and am considering pitching large-scale real estate within Pakistan, although not at the moment given the plummeting value of the rupee.

Children are screwed anyway, raising them in US mean kids will have low self-esteem, American Born Confused Desi (ABCD). Always trying to fit in, which will F’up his overall personality. Raising them in Pakistan means lack of opportunities but he will know da faq he is all about and won’t get easily bullied when back in US.

Best bet is solid connection with home country, yearly vacation or few years in home country with solid grasp of family and relationships and when it’s time for higher studies and job; back to US.

I have both types (cousin from different Aunt/Uncles ) in my family and I can observe the difference.

I definitely feel that a western upbringing is detrimental to both the faith of children and the general strength of character. A pakistani upbringing will probably make them stronger, as well as decreasing the risk of them losing their Iman.

Overall, the general plan is to do what many elites do in Pakistan, such as the sharifs and bhuttos etc.
Give them the pakistani upbringing, send them to the west or Europe for higher schooling and then aim for them to come back and continue the businesses.

 

[Olympus81]

I think this ABCD is more prevalent in kids living in Pakistan.

There are alot of things you take for granted abroad where you have to plan for in Pakistan. Eg. Security, New dresses for your wife for every God damn weddings, Putting up with your relatives asking for money or trying to scam you with a new business idea.

My extended family own textile / construction industries. They say it all looks good from the outside especially for non resident Pakistanis when we only come for a short while, to enjoy weddings and being guests.

For rich people, you have to be low profile. You get calls, letters for bhatta from Zardari’s frontmen which you can’t avoid. Sometimes the association receives it as a group so all the members have to chip in.

Living in DHA Karachi you have to arrange for a water tanker. Again army’s and ppp collusion. Can you imagine calling for a tanker on a weekly basis while your children are stuck in the bathroom.

Think carefully.

 

[AlKardai]

Long story short for anyone who wants to move to Pakistan:

The "money is no object" approach will likely work in the short run, but will be damaging in the long run, as the amount of problems that it brings will probably not make it worthwhile at all. (elite meddling, people coming after your money, scams and other political threats)

The best solution, seeing from the people here, is to stay in the west.

If you really wish to move to Pakistan, do not fully commit to the country unless you wish to start moving down classes.
Without foreign assets and offshore companies, you are limited to the startups within the country, as well as your own dwindling funds that will only become more pressing as the startups you invest in begin to fail due to terrible exchange rates and a largely devalued currency.
If you wish to move to Pakistan, stay well defended and within a bubble of people who you have known for your entire life.
Created a small gated community if you can, aiming to be self-sufficient.
Don't trust other businesses within Pakistan, as you can be fleeced easily and do not have the adequate legal ability to exact justice.
Don't trust the cheaper services for cars and household repair, as they could scout your house out and sell on the info to someone else, as well as potentially screwing your car over and making you pay monstrous sums of money for a proper repair. If you need a repair, a well-esteemed repairmen within Islamabad is your best bet, although it would be valuable if you had the repair skills yourself.

If, at the end of all this, you still want to go for it but do not have the funds required, the military will be a good option to invest your children within

 

[Genghis khan1]

The reason will be to protect the Iman of my future children and the culture of our family.
I have seen the state of the new generation here and they are awfully close to losing their religious identity, almost entirely.
I understand that Western culture and immorality has seeped into Pakistan at its lowest levels, but I aim to properly protect my family from this and to live according to true Muslim values.

That was my overall idea. I was originally scanning through DHA valley properties due to the safety and close proximity of education and healthcare, but I am seriously reconsidering this now.

That has been the case for pretty much the entire previous generation. They came to the foreign countries, sent money back to build their lives, but their children wished to stay within the foreign countries.
That's why you have so many starkly empty mansions within Pakistan, which only act as holiday homes for the first generation.

Yes, I'm planning on running a very independent ship when I get over there. Many people I know have been fleeced good and proper, even when trusting expat businesses.
I have a good couple of contacts and I hope I can make a couple more within the Institutions. (My family already have some contacts in different places)

AJK is just an option for me, as I have family there. But as with all things, I can't really trust them very much, nor do I really wish to live around them due to their own greed.
I was definitely considering importing a land cruiser or two over there, seeing how much they cost in Pakistan.
Solar Panels and backup generators is definitely something that I am already planning, as well as buying farmland as a small set of consumable aid for my household.

Absolutely, I was planning on continuously expanding the abroad real estate, whilst making sure that my children have a Pakistani upbringing instead.

As someone who has experienced this kind of thing straight up, I definitely know the value of good security.
If I wish to remain in AJK, I don't think I will stay there with just my own family, but probably persuade more expats and relatives to come over and properly build our own community there, as I have met quite a few like minded people who would do this if more people were planning on doing so.

I definitely know people who would be more willing to return if they see a good government in place, or even if they start seeing other people who have taken the plunge and made the best out of it.

The final paragraph really hits home with me. Many people I know have sprawling mansions in Pakistan, and their families only visit them once or twice, but otherwise they are left to rot and be stolen from. People in my family especially, have tens of houses just lying there- the problem of miserliness is very real,


1) Yes, as I am slowly beginning to transfer to investable real estate assets in the UK and am considering pitching large-scale real estate within Pakistan, although not at the moment given the plummeting value of the rupee.

I definitely feel that a western upbringing is detrimental to both the faith of children and the general strength of character. A pakistani upbringing will probably make them stronger, as well as decreasing the risk of them losing their Iman.

Overall, the general plan is to do what many elites do in Pakistan, such as the sharifs and bhuttos etc.
Give them the pakistani upbringing, send them to the west or Europe for higher schooling and then aim for them to come back and continue the businesses.

You can also opt to stay in Dubai for Islamic upbringing and western facilities.

 

[TNT]

The reason will be to protect the Iman of my future children and the culture of our family.
I have seen the state of the new generation here and they are awfully close to losing their religious identity, almost entirely.

You have a good intention and i respect that u think abt that but brother, let me make a few things clear to u. There is no protection of iman in Pakistan, there is no Islam or Islamic thing in Pakistan. Yes there is alot of showoff and cosmetic Islam but in reality they are worst than kafir.
Here your kids will only learn hypocrisy, only how to look muslim, showoff as muslim and cash it. There is only beard n shalwar kameez and tasbeeh and pray 5 times a day and say Alhamdullilah on everything but then everything else is worst than kafirs. Mullahs molest kids in masjids and madrassas, eat haram, earn haram. Backbiting and jealousy are too common. You will regret it once u live here for a year. I suggest its best to live abroad and connect with ur kids more, give them more time, teach them with love n wisdom and pray to Allah to protect their iman. In the west u may slip, due to the obvious attractions, but those are sins that are forgivable and one can get out of it but here in Pakistan, u can totally loose ur iman, u can totally become immune. Its scary because if u do all western stuff, one day u can still return n change but if here u become hypocrite, u pray 5 times, have tasbeeh, roza and all and still do bad stuff, ull never return, ull be gone too deep into iblees territory. This is something very common in Pakistan and thats y i think most here are actually worst than kafirs because hypocrites are worst than kafirs.

 

[313ghazi]

The reason will be to protect the Iman of my future children and the culture of our family.
I have seen the state of the new generation here and they are awfully close to losing their religious identity, almost entirely.
I understand that Western culture and immorality has seeped into Pakistan at its lowest levels, but I aim to properly protect my family from this and to live according to true Muslim values.

I know you don't want negativity on this thread, but don't take anything for granted. Go on Pakistani twitter, reddit, instagram, look at the lifestyles of the upper middle class, the sorts of people your kids will be rubbing shoulders with. Drug use, sex outside marriage, drinking, rampant.

Wherever you live - keep a tight control on the company your children keep, keep them busy in activities, spend time around their friends. Also you have to spend a lot of time talking to them, explaining your morals and they have to see you live those morals. Can't have dad Watching Breaking Bad and then telling his son that drugs are bad.

 

[AlKardai]

I know you don't want negativity on this thread, but don't take anything for granted. Go on Pakistani twitter, reddit, instagram, look at the lifestyles of the upper middle class, the sorts of people your kids will be rubbing shoulders with. Drug use, sex outside marriage, drinking, rampant.

Wherever you live - keep a tight control on the company your children keep, keep them busy in activities, spend time around their friends. Also you have to spend a lot of time talking to them, explaining your morals and they have to see you live those morals. Can't have dad Watching Breaking Bad and then telling his son that drugs are bad.

I know the level of moral corruption running through society at a base level and know it is extremely bad. That's why I'm looking to teach my children myself, as well as stressing the importance of righteousness and morals.
I have quite a few friends over there, who all talk about the westernisation of private schools and even most state schools.
Teens engage in boyfriend/girlfriend relationships openly.
many people drink and take drugs.
If I am to move, I'll probably take responsibility for education in the form of private tutors, or teaching myself.

 

[White privilege]

Who would want to 'move to' unless he was a mad patriot like Dr. A Q Khan..??

 

[hussain0316]

I have trawled through this forum and have ironically not found any posts or articles properly advising for the situation in which someone from a foreign country wishes to move to Pakistan.

If people could post advice in relations to moving to Pakistan, it would be very helpful.
This can include:
Different taxes that homeowners need to pay (Electricity, water, fuel, internet etc)
Weekly food cost on average for different family sizes (couple with two children, singleton, couple with 5 children etc)
Social and societal norms
Home security
Land ownership
Banking and recommended Banking systems.

Warning: I wish for this to remain as a civil and serious discussion.
We are aware of the Political scene, please do not bring politics into this.
Please do not say things like "don't move to Pakistan". People who are considering moving have already taken into account the situation on the ground, but need the extra information to live their lives adequately.

I recently moved back, to Isb. It is not all doom and gloom.

Alot will depend on where you move to. So some sort of clarity in this aspect would help.
Buying a house in Isb is less of a scam, then in any major city.
Getting good help is a pain, but paying above avg mkt price helps.
Kids schooling depends on how good an education you want your kids to have. Some elite schools are actually counter productive.
Electricity and Gas bills will be your biggest headaches, and are slab based. The more you use, the more they skin you.

A smart thing, my cousin did was invest in a fund, where he gets 5%p.a. net in US$.

Anyways a lot of variables, overall,not bad. Hit me up if you need more details.