For the world of immigrants living within

[JayAtl]

Your statement above, in my opinion as a native born, Christian European-American, encapsulates the American "ideal" of assimilation.

That is, an "assimilated" American believes that the US Constitution is the basis for American law and does not seek to change "America" in any way other than the ways that are provided in the US Constitution.

As a corollary, I, as a multi-generational immigrant (German-Scottish heritage dating from the 19th century) accept that more recent immigrants have the complete right to bring their culture and even change the existing American culture as long as they operate within the bounds of the US Constitution to do so.

Since often I'm asked " why do people covet going to America? --- Lo behold the greatness of America( his comment above)... and you really don't have to be too smart to understand his comment above.

Ironically- How many of you would accept or have accepted your own 50/100 generations of minorities let alone immigrants in your country vs. America does with its 1st?

All they ask .. follow our constitution and keep your " original" countries religious , political, regional politcs to your kitchen table. and IF you are to seek its citizenship - show some loyalty .

Would you ask any different of your immigrants?

Does america screw up? hell yes...
Has america been billigerent in its past? Hell yes...
Can you be america's worst enemy ( country) and still have opportunity( it's citizens) within? Hell yes...

 

[Pfpilot]

That's a completely idealistic opinion and it overlooks the interest the first world has in allowing immigrants to come into their territories in the first place. Immigrants are usually required to make up numbers in nations with slowing growth rates...you need more professionals, more tax dollars, more consumers...immigrants are the quick fix.
So please stop acting as if the Americans are doing anyone a favor, other than for those who already inhabit the nation. I live in Canada and greatly appreciate everything the nation has done for me, but not because of some forced loyalty. But this whole basis for, "you better love it, if you live there" is flawed since no one is doing anyone a favor. Immigration, unlike the concept of refugees, is based on mutual gain.
If you love America, then great, but not everyone who lives there has to...right to free speech after all.

 

[Meengla]

@Jayatl,
I have seen your posts before questioning people who question America's foreign policy. I think you need to realize that America is great is because it is truly 'New World' where, like a Star-trek Borg, people work to make the land more productive and fruitful for all.
BUT... I have seen you ki$$ing a$$ too many times. To you, if you are an immigrant from Muslim background and you question then you are, in a la McCarthy fashion, an automatic suspect.
Fact is that you Indians have your interests aligned with America -these days- that's why you tend to defend many American foreign policies which, by my reading of the NY Times 'Comments', even most Americans (at the least the 'liberal' ones) don't condone. And yet you keep being a cheap boot-licker and a sycophant. Your post above is okay--even good--but you have a witch-hunt mentality. You would be advised to know that even though you Indian bloggers HERE are American-mouthpieces because, you think, American and Indian interests are similar now, but even then your brothers at Bharat Rakhshak don't spare America.

America is great. It is great despite the greedy, war-mongering top < 1% in the Congress and the media. It does not need an affirmation by a McCarthyism-Indian who happens to think that India's interests are best served by being American 'ally'.

If my post seems like coming out of nowhere then be assured that I have seen seen you before in your McCarthyism approach.

 

[JayAtl]

@Jayatl,
I have seen your posts before questioning people who question America's foreign policy. I think you need to realize that America is great is because it is truly 'New World' where, like a Star-trek Borg, people work to make the land more productive and fruitful for all.
BUT... I have seen you ki$$ing a$$ too many times. To you, if you are an immigrant from Muslim background and you question then you are, in a la McCarthy fashion, an automatic suspect.
Fact is that you Indians have your interests aligned with America -these days- that's why you tend to defend many American foreign policies which, by my reading of the NY Times 'Comments', even most Americans (at the least the 'liberal' ones) don't condone. And yet you keep being a cheap boot-licker and a sycophant. Your post above is okay--even good--but you have a witch-hunt mentality. You would be advised to know that even though you Indian bloggers HERE are American-mouthpieces because, you think, American and Indian interests are similar now, but even then your brothers at Bharat Rakhshak don't spare America.

America is great. It is great despite the greedy, war-mongering top < 1% in the Congress and the media. It does not need an affirmation by a McCarthyism-Indian who happens to think that India's interests are best served by being American 'ally'.

If my post seems like coming out of nowhere then be assured that I have seen seen you before in your McCarthyism approach.

I Know you very well too and your posts don't come out of nowhere for me. I see you as moderate force yet one who plays the &#8220;Muslim" victim card when convenient. As you have once again played and stated it in your post above. You see it&#8217;s not a "Muslim" issue with me ( as an American)- it is a Pakistani&#8217;s propensity to make heroes out of the terrorist&#8217;s and it&#8217;s support issue, we on the outside have.

I have not proclaimed Americas greatness because of its alliance with India, because unlike you, I don&#8217;t see it from a " country specific' view because I happened to be brought up here when India was not enjoying American patronage. Don't beleive me ? go ask the posters on the Indian defense forum_ some hang here too. They will tell you I don't care if you are indian - if I disgree with your silly attitudes about the US- I dish it to them over there too. hell I do the same to Indians on this forum too- if you truely followed my posts. I coin your entrire post as being silly too because it went off the premise I'm an american indian who loves amerika because it is pro India... heh height of shallowness. I support anti Iran policies - Indians disagree.

I was for an Libya invasion, India was not, I'm for NATO action in Syria, India is not, I'm for US-Inida nuke deal but not on the terms Inida wants ... should I go on?


My McCarthy like attitude would be true if only you had seen- that when it comes to &#8220;Muslims" and their rights, I been a fervent supporter and donated for its cause (tell me how much you sent for the cordova,ny, cause?) --- Where you are confused about my views is that is more about &#8220;Islamic terrorism&#8221; and &#8220;countries&#8221; attitude towards US vs. being &#8220; ALL Muslim" specific. Not unlike you and your issue, while sitting pretty in the US, seems to be India specific, Hindu fundamentalist vs. &#8220;Hindu&#8221; specific

My approach is to suspect- NOT if you simply dissent on some issues , it's when you espouse constant ill will and wish the worst upon the US, while being a so called " immigrant" regardless of what religion you come from.

Finally, you call my positioning kissing A$$. I&#8217;m American are you (how can an American espousing support for America be called A$$ kissing?)? I call yours ungrateful immigrants who have forgotten who feeds your family and the values it espouses.

Pssst- This is not the land of &#8220;Borg" - it&#8217;s the land of the free...you know the land where, correct me if I wrong - and I have seen YOU post many times supporting ahmdeids rights , have right to practice their version of religion vs. you land of true loyalties.

Oh more last thing-- my post was more about american accepetence, tolerence and its open arms towards immigrants who reside here legally- as it's greatness...( read the OP). I also happen to be a " democrat" , But I won't ever go by " nY times comment section to guage the country...as me specific issues and you will find me agreeing with 95% like i do with the occupy wall street folks. I know now you disgree with that premise - else why post that above?

 

[pmukherjee]

@Jayatl,
I have seen your posts before questioning people who question America's foreign policy. I think you need to realize that America is great is because it is truly 'New World' where, like a Star-trek Borg, people work to make the land more productive and fruitful for all.
BUT... I have seen you ki$$ing a$$ too many times. To you, if you are an immigrant from Muslim background and you question then you are, in a la McCarthy fashion, an automatic suspect.
Fact is that you Indians have your interests aligned with America -these days- that's why you tend to defend many American foreign policies which, by my reading of the NY Times 'Comments', even most Americans (at the least the 'liberal' ones) don't condone. And yet you keep being a cheap boot-licker and a sycophant. Your post above is okay--even good--but you have a witch-hunt mentality. You would be advised to know that even though you Indian bloggers HERE are American-mouthpieces because, you think, American and Indian interests are similar now, but even then your brothers at Bharat Rakhshak don't spare America.

America is great. It is great despite the greedy, war-mongering top < 1% in the Congress and the media. It does not need an affirmation by a McCarthyism-Indian who happens to think that India's interests are best served by being American 'ally'.

If my post seems like coming out of nowhere then be assured that I have seen seen you before in your McCarthyism approach.

Meengla, you can do better than that buddy. Whatever makes you say that Indians on pdf or Indians in general love America and are glad to be American mouthpieces? America, just like anybody else, needs to be praised when it does a good thing just as it has to be cursed and condemned when it does anything that is detrimental to our national interests. The bottom line here is national interest. You have to understand that China is a huge factor for India. China is an existential threat to India and for most of this decade, till our defence modernisation plans are in place, we are very vulnerable to an aggression form China. Therefore, all actions of the US which in some way mitigate or reduce the Chinese influence and threat win admiration of Indians as they should.

You guys see us merely through the China/US prism. Anyone who is critical of China is automatically an American 'b@@tlicker', right? Isn't this also an example of McCarthyism? I can't speak for Jayatl, he has to answer the charges himself, but I personally am very critical of the US policies at times when they seem absurd or mala fide to me. I know of many Indians who do likewise. However, to give the devil his due, whether or not the US needs us to counter China's rise, the US does not appear to mean us no harm. Very few Indians can say the same for China even though we all wish that were the case.

Add to the above the fact that for most members here, being on the pdf is a golden and perhaps the only opportunity to actively participate in a raging war between India on one side and Pakistan and China on the other. In most of these ferocious cyber battles, the US appears on the side of the underdogs.

I am happy that you have made the distinction between Indians and 'Indian bloggers HERE' when you level the accusations against Indians. Believe me, Indians in general are not at all keen to run and jump into anybody's laps. You have to follow the policy decisions of the GOI closely to understand the course being charted by the GOI. In a number of important cases, India has found itself on the side opposite to the US or its closest allies. Between alliance to America and an independent foreign policy, most Indians would go for an independent foreign policy. But, if there is anything constantly pushing India into the American camp, it is the Pakistan-China military axis. Why blame us for something you are helping create?

 

[Meengla]

@Jayatl,
I strongly denounce those Muslims who live in the West, enjoy its freedoms, and yet continue to play 'victim' whether due to the Hijab-ban or some other things like leaving work and offering prayers en masse when, say, driving cabs etc. You will not find me even once sympathetic to that. These people ban even a discussion on the Blasphemy Law in Pakistan while want to have all freedom of speech in the West. But I still see you digging up dirt on immigrants of Muslim background because of their differences with foreign policy issues. There is no contradiction in having a strongly different viewpoint on some policies while continue to being good, law abiding citizens in their adapted countries. Indeed, as I say above, many Americans themselves hold such views. The coin can be flipped to expect all foreign nationals living in all countries of the world to hold their host countries' official policies as valid and good.
I am sorry if I got carried away in choice of words. But my central argument holds true: These days Indian bloggers (at least here) tend to think Indian and American interests are aligned and so much of their arguments follow that. Barely three two decades ago this was not the case when India was in the Soviet-camp. Indeed, when Indira was killed, I was in India and the immediate reaction of people around me was 'This must be America and Pakistan's work'.

 

[JayAtl]

@Jayatl,
I strongly denounce those Muslims who live in the West, enjoy its freedoms, and yet continue to play 'victim' whether due to the Hijab-ban or some other things like leaving work and offering prayers en masse when, say, driving cabs etc. You will not find me even once sympathetic to that. These people ban even a discussion on the Blasphemy Law in Pakistan while want to have all freedom of speech in the West. But I still see you digging up dirt on immigrants of Muslim background because of their differences with foreign policy issues. There is no contradiction in having a strongly different viewpoint on some policies while continue to being good, law abiding citizens in their adapted countries. Indeed, as I say above, many Americans themselves hold such views. The coin can be flipped to expect all foreign nationals living in all countries of the world to hold their host countries' official policies as valid and good.
I am sorry if I got carried away in choice of words. But my central argument holds true: These days Indian bloggers (at least here) tend to think Indian and American interests are aligned and so much of their arguments follow that. Barely three two decades ago this was not the case when India was in the Soviet-camp. Indeed, when Indira was killed, I was in India and the immediate reaction of people around me was 'This must be America and Pakistan's work'.

you apologize on one hand and then still push that false meme over and over again that I'm anti Muslim- that's to me is the victim card. show me the cases where being Muslim was the issue for me and not a countries or a poster specific action. It's really ugly of you to put that scarlet X on my back.....

Lastly, I don't get this feigned outrage over indian bloggers being aligned with the US.

I would bet my last dollar that you would find more , a decent amount of them that make anti US interests statements many times here or atleast non aligned like comments

VS.

I challenge you to find me one post from a Pakistani that does not support and follow China blindly, even to the detrement of its own vaules... The standing joke for me is - that pakistani have given up thier identity so much to be the chinese spokeperson here, that the Chinese posters, I've noticed, don't even bother to reply to many posts where their country is being discussed lately. They have thier proverbial fanboys ( insert Pakistani posters) do it...

 

[anon45]

That's a completely idealistic opinion and it overlooks the interest the first world has in allowing immigrants to come into their territories in the first place. Immigrants are usually required to make up numbers in nations with slowing growth rates...you need more professionals, more tax dollars, more consumers...immigrants are the quick fix.
So please stop acting as if the Americans are doing anyone a favor, other than for those who already inhabit the nation. I live in Canada and greatly appreciate everything the nation has done for me, but not because of some forced loyalty. But this whole basis for, "you better love it, if you live there" is flawed since no one is doing anyone a favor. Immigration, unlike the concept of refugees, is based on mutual gain.
If you love America, then great, but not everyone who lives there has to...right to free speech after all.

This doesn't really apply to the US, as we've had a history of immigrants and immigration long before population growth was a problem. In fact you could say truthfully America was built by immigration.

To put it simplistically, As long as you love what the original constitution and bill of rights embodies, there is no problem. This is the ideal. Because America has (relatively) no cultural history to draw from, we derive our societal 'glue' from ideals. I'd imagine the same goes for Canada.