What's new

Follow-on Kaveri K9+ & K10 Turbofan Jet Engine Projects worth $400 Million Await CCS Clearance

And what about the Price escalation ; dispute on Indian weapons
such as Astra ; Brahmos NG ; Nirbhay

If we keep using French weapons ; the costs will be just too high
There is a lot of nonsense going around in the media about this deal thanks to a combination of vested interests (paid off), ignorance and indifference to defence stories.

Considering the Astra, Bhramos-A and Nirbhay aren't ready for induction even on current IAF a/c, don't you question the notion that this has caused a hiccup in the ongoing talks?


Just like with any other fighter in the IAF's fleet the AF will have full liberty to integrate whatever weapons they choose at a later date. This was a fundamental clause in the original MMRCA competition as part of the customer-nominated equipment (like HMDS, LDP etc) and this hasn't changed.
 
There is a lot of nonsense going around in the media about this deal thanks to a combination of vested interests (paid off), ignorance and indifference to defence stories.

Considering the Astra, Bhramos-A and Nirbhay aren't ready for induction even on current IAF a/c, don't you question the notion that this has caused a hiccup in the ongoing talks?


Just like with any other fighter in the IAF's fleet the AF will have full liberty to integrate whatever weapons they choose at a later date. This was a fundamental clause in the original MMRCA competition as part of the customer-nominated equipment (like HMDS, LDP etc) and this hasn't changed.

I really love your optimism

Let us hope for the BEST ; how long do you think we have to wait
for the contract signature ; Christmas maybe
 
The way I understand it, the Kaveri did not quite meet power requirements stipulated by the ADA as such it would not be allowed to be tested on a single engined aircraft. The Kaveri was tested on a multi engined a/c (Il-76):

FTB-IL%266-1-772135.jpg



Once the Kaveri is able to demonstrate it has met the specific criteria set forth by the ADA/IAF in both ground tests and flight tests it can be put on a single engined fighter (LCA), but not before that for inherent safety considerations.


If the Kaveri is to be re-explored as a jet engine for fighters it will most likely be fitted on a twin-engined fighter (IIRC GRTE are looking to procure their own Su-30MKI for this explicit reason) before progressing onto the LCA.


100% certain.
about what ???
 
Still a long way to go before Kaveri gets installed on AMCA or LCA

At least 10 years

I totally disgree. All this project needs is, a gun project manager, and 2 billion bucks allocation. After that, have measurable 6 months milestones, and after 3 years engine will be there. Freakin $500 mil allocation, if you are trying to build an engine which can provide 90kn plus thrust, this amount is peanuts...

Can someone please tell what is the total amount spent on this engine program until now??
 
That's what I was thinking for a long time. The programme was shelved....what bloody shelved? People get IAS or IITs after 3-4 attempts. No matter what others say, we must take it to its conclusion...i.e complete it. And I swear If at all the funds are sanctioned or programme starts, we will hear US or UK or Russia have offered to make Engines in India or even they will say they will source the parts from inside.

@Chanakya's_Chant @Abingdonboy @SR-91 @GURU DUTT

Thx for the tag.

Due to nature of of the project not much is known. Whatever we have heard so far is not to our satisfaction but, I do strongly believe, in next few years we will succeed in this field.

Modi govt knows the importance of this project, hence, financing will be available, (400 million doesn't sound like a lot but I believe our scientists can pull it off) extent results in coming years.

Let's not forget, it's not in the interest of other nations that we succeed in this field, thus expect issues, just like the testing if Kaveri in Russia. IMO

Basic info on Kaveri....






After November 2014, the original Kaveri development closed but 2 new programs opened, the K9+ and K10.

Modi govt believes in R&D, so the hopes are high. Also, keep in mind that this engine I s like no other, it should be able to operate in high heat of desert n extreme cold of himalayas. Don't forget most engines fsoled this test in MMRCA.

Some basic Informative articles.......

The Kaveri is literally India's first supersonic jet engine. It is very ambitious considering the India's stsrting technology level in this aspect. The GTRE is trying to leapfrog several generations of engine design/development and metallurgy and and go directly from 1950's engine tech to 2000's engine tech.

There have been impressive strides in metallurgy by DMRL and the Kaveri will soon have the latest generation single crystal turbine blades made by powder metallurgy techniques.

Over 100 private companies are participating in the Kaveri project after the high altitude tests in Russia got screwed up. GTRE finally realised that going alone is not the way ahead and invited bids from private parties and because of this very reason, the Kaveri made impressive progress lately. Metallurgy giant Mahadini has contributed extensively to the Kaveri.

The project has been plagued by cost overruns and massive time delays - but considering the complexity of the same and the amount of funding that's available, in addition to the base from which India started the progress is impressive.

Presently only Russia, USA, UK and France have the technology to make high performance supersonic turbofans for airplanes. And this was developed through several decades of progressive development. They started off with a high base thanks to all the German technologies they imbibed and assistance from captured Nazi scientists. Seldom do any of these nations part with any of the technology. India (& China) have had do things by themselves and are catching up.

The long term aim of the GTX-35VS Kaveri project was to set up the infrastructure and facilities to make the latest generation of aircraft engines in India and IMHO that has been achieved alredy.

The GTRE and DRDO and all others now say that the Kaveri will get into and power the LCA by 2009. To help fix the problems with the Kabini core of the Kaveri speedily, an international tender is in place and the bidders include NPO Saturn, Rolls Royce, GE, Pratt and Whitney, SECMA and Klimov.

The Kaveri when ready will have a thrust of 90kN (20,000 lbs) with a Turbine entry temperature of 2000+ degee C. That would put it in the league of the latest engines of today such as the EJ-200 of the Eurofighter, M88-3 of the Rafale (still in development). GTRE has also stated that the Kaveri will be less thirsty than the upgraded F-404's. KH has also said that the Kaveri would be able to make the LCA supercruise.




The production Kaveri, with a reheat thrust of 20,200 lbs. (90kN), will be more powerful than the 17,000 lbs Snecma M88-2 now powering the twin-engined Rafale. It matches the output of the uprated M88-3.

GTRE says the version of the Kaveri will have a turbine entry temperature of 1850 degree C andsingle-crystal turbine blades being developed by GTRE with the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory.

The new variant, which India says will be at the technology level of the M88-3, will have a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1. A new combustor will be shorter and lighter than the present unit.

The increased, dry thrust should allow the Tejas aircraft (which it will power) to supercruise (cruise supersonically without the use of reheat). Also under development is a thrust-vectoring nozzle, to enhance its agility, as well as a digital engine control system. The axisymmetric TV nozzle is planned to be flight tested on a later prototype. Plans are already under way for derivatives of the Kaveri : a non-afterburning version for an advanced jet trainer, a high bypass-ratio turbo fan based on the Kaveri core, as well as variants for other applications.
 
Last edited:
Thx for the tag.

Due to nature of of the project not much is known. Whatever we have heard so far is not to our satisfaction but, I do strongly believe, in next few years we will succeed in this field.

Modi govt knows the importance of this project, hence, financing will be available, (400 million doesn't sound like a lot but I believe our scientists can pull it off) extent results in coming years.

Let's not forget, it's not in the interest of other nations that we succeed in this field, thus expect issues, just like the testing if Kaveri in Russia. IMO

Basic info on Kaveri....






After November 2014, the original Kaveri development closed but 2 new programs opened, the K9+ and K10.

Modi govt believes in R&D, so the hopes are high. Also, keep in mind that this engine I s like no other, it should be able to operate in high heat of desert n extreme cold of himalayas. Don't forget most engines fsoled this test in MMRCA.

Some basic Informative articles.......

The Kaveri is literally India's first supersonic jet engine. It is very ambitious considering the India's stsrting technology level in this aspect. The GTRE is trying to leapfrog several generations of engine design/development and metallurgy and and go directly from 1950's engine tech to 2000's engine tech.

There have been impressive strides in metallurgy by DMRL and the Kaveri will soon have the latest generation single crystal turbine blades made by powder metallurgy techniques.

Over 100 private companies are participating in the Kaveri project after the high altitude tests in Russia got screwed up. GTRE finally realised that going alone is not the way ahead and invited bids from private parties and because of this very reason, the Kaveri made impressive progress lately. Metallurgy giant Mahadini has contributed extensively to the Kaveri.

The project has been plagued by cost overruns and massive time delays - but considering the complexity of the same and the amount of funding that's available, in addition to the base from which India started the progress is impressive.

Presently only Russia, USA, UK and France have the technology to make high performance supersonic turbofans for airplanes. And this was developed through several decades of progressive development. They started off with a high base thanks to all the German technologies they imbibed and assistance from captured Nazi scientists. Seldom do any of these nations part with any of the technology. India (& China) have had do things by themselves and are catching up.

The long term aim of the GTX-35VS Kaveri project was to set up the infrastructure and facilities to make the latest generation of aircraft engines in India and IMHO that has been achieved alredy.

The GTRE and DRDO and all others now say that the Kaveri will get into and power the LCA by 2009. To help fix the problems with the Kabini core of the Kaveri speedily, an international tender is in place and the bidders include NPO Saturn, Rolls Royce, GE, Pratt and Whitney, SECMA and Klimov.

The Kaveri when ready will have a thrust of 90kN (20,000 lbs) with a Turbine entry temperature of 2000+ degee C. That would put it in the league of the latest engines of today such as the EJ-200 of the Eurofighter, M88-3 of the Rafale (still in development). GTRE has also stated that the Kaveri will be less thirsty than the upgraded F-404's. KH has also said that the Kaveri would be able to make the LCA supercruise.




The production Kaveri, with a reheat thrust of 20,200 lbs. (90kN), will be more powerful than the 17,000 lbs Snecma M88-2 now powering the twin-engined Rafale. It matches the output of the uprated M88-3.

GTRE says the version of the Kaveri will have a turbine entry temperature of 1850 degree C andsingle-crystal turbine blades being developed by GTRE with the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory.

The new variant, which India says will be at the technology level of the M88-3, will have a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1. A new combustor will be shorter and lighter than the present unit.

The increased, dry thrust should allow the Tejas aircraft (which it will power) to supercruise (cruise supersonically without the use of reheat). Also under development is a thrust-vectoring nozzle, to enhance its agility, as well as a digital engine control system. The axisymmetric TV nozzle is planned to be flight tested on a later prototype. Plans are already under way for derivatives of the Kaveri : a non-afterburning version for an advanced jet trainer, a high bypass-ratio turbo fan based on the Kaveri core, as well as variants for other applications.

This project has much more strategic importance than flying a jet with a desi engine. Only people with tunnel vision or who can't afford the R&D cost will belittle its importance. Currently, P4 have proven capability to build both commercial and military turbofans. China is going in that direction and will be there eventually. In regards to military turbofan, India doesn’t have a choice if they want to keep an independent foreign policy. However, I'm thinking even in longer term, this world is too big to be served by just 2 commercial engines which is the case at the moment. Now, there are very few countries who can afford to build a commercial turbofan, all others are somehow too close to US/France to justify the cost of having their own commercial turbofans. So, there are only two countries with big enough economies to sustain both military and commercial turbofans. Even if, not a single commercial turbofan is exported, India and China can serve their domestic aircraft markets with their indigenous commercial turbofans.

Anecdotally, most of the high end commercial technologies have origins in military application, GPS being the obvious one. So maybe one day little Kaveri’s commercial brother will fire the commercial aeroplanes.
.
 
Last edited:
With Kaveri, We have achieved many major milestones including achieving 50KN + Dry thrust. Now we have have realized the new crystel Blades better the than the one used in Al-31 Russian engine, With some good consultency and addition R & D, we may have a Desi engine of 90 KN class to power our light aircrafts.
 

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Military Forum Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom