Follow IMF or Islam?

 

[Indos]

The Zakat should be paid to the Government, for Allah (SWT) says: "Take alms from their properties so that you might purify and sanctify them." [At-Tauba: 103]

See the context there, there is no tax under prophet Muhammad rule, unlike current government. Basically the verse is very important so that Muslim can finance the war, has money to do birrocracy type of job ( government job ). If the verse is not that strong, Muslim nation in Madinah will collapse.

While current government has imposed tax way higher, the government can function without getting Zakat, but for my understanding we still must pay both Zakat and tax

Literally your first lines in this thread.

" Zakat is voluntarily action which actually not that high, "

EVERY MUSLIM KNOWS ZAKAT IS MANDATORY SINCE WE ARE KIDS, I DONT ARGUE WITH NON MUSLIM, BUT MUSLIMS.

I THOUGHT YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THE CONTEX ALREADY. It is about the collection, what I mean is that government cannot impose Zakat to its citizen, only tax that can be imposed, as like it is mandatory to pray 5 times daily but government cannot impose their citizen to pray.

 

[Trango Towers]

What I don't understand is
Zakat is 2.5%. It used to clenese your wealth.

So this year's let's say I have 100 rupees and I pay 2.5 rupees tax. Thank leave me clean 97.5 rupees.
I keep saving and next year I have saved another 100 rupees. Molvis would say now pay taclc on 197.5 rupees.

Why? When did the original 97.5 money become dirty? I have already cleansed it with zakat.

Fact molvis don't understand the rules and neither do we.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

If Pakistan had strictly followed Islamic principles, interest free lending, Islamic taxation system and charity there would have been no need for IMF.

Regards

 

[Indos]

If Pakistan had strictly followed Islamic principles, interest free lending, Islamic taxation system and charity there would have been no need for IMF.

Regards

In my opinion, if the banks are State Owned Companies then getting interest can still be done, it can still be regarded as another type of tax in which government under Shariah Islam can get the tax from its citizen ( Zakat is the same form of tax in substance ).

Out of 10 biggest banks in Indonesia, 7 are state owned, 1 private own where 50 % stakes traded in stock exchange, and 2 foreign owned banks, the biggest ( Mandiri Bank ) and second biggest ( BRI Bank ) are also SOE.

The taxation in Islam is based on the situation, there is why in Quran there is story about prophet Yusuf who said the king must collect more grain to be put at storage within 10 years as a way to face drought in the next 10 years.

 

[Mr.Green]

What I don't understand is
Zakat is 2.5%. It used to clenese your wealth.

So this year's let's say I have 100 rupees and I pay 2.5 rupees tax. Thank leave me clean 97.5 rupees.
I keep saving and next year I have saved another 100 rupees. Molvis would say now pay taclc on 197.5 rupees.

Why? When did the original 97.5 money become dirty? I have already cleansed it with zakat.

Fact molvis don't understand the rules and neither do we.

Wealth has to be cleansed every year. It is a form of Wealth tax not a one time tax amnesty scheme.

In my opinion, if the banks are State Owned Companies then getting interest can still be done, it can still be regarded as another type of tax in which government under Shariah Islam can get the tax from its citizen ( Zakat is the same form of tax in substance ).

Out of 10 biggest banks in Indonesia, 7 are state owned, 1 private own where 50 % stakes traded in stock exchange, and 2 foreign owned banks, the biggest ( Mandiri Bank ) and second biggest ( BRI Bank ) are also SOE.

The taxation in Islam is based on the situation, there is why in Quran there is story about prophet Yusuf who said the king must collect more grain to be put at storage within 10 years as a way to face drought in the next 10 years.

Interest is another issue and will be discussed in another post. We are talking about ordinary running of State not emergency situations. Hazrat Usman R.A donated his whole caravan of goods when there was draught in Medina.

 

[Trango Towers]

Wealth has to be cleansed every year. It is a form of Wealth tax not a one time tax amnesty scheme.


Interest is another issue and will be discussed in another post. We are talking about ordinary running of State not emergency situations. Hazrat Usman R.A donated his whole caravan of goods when there was draught in Medina.

Again. You repeated what you are taught.

When did the cleansed wealth become dirty? Do u realise
If you only ever have a savings of 100 rupees in your life and every year you pay 2.5% eventually you will have no saving?

So once again...when did the cleansed wealth become dirty. Answer the question. I don't want bs answer like above

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Pakistanis have traded god for the almighty dollars.

You was the first to leave Pakistan and settled in America just for dollars. Don't include us in this. Five fingers are not same.

 

[Trango Towers]

You was the first to leave Pakistan and settled in America just for dollars. Don't include us in this. Five fingers are not same.

In Pakistan they are. Every pakistan is involved as you cannot do even a simple task without paying bribe. Try getting a electric meter or any other legal thing done.

 

[ARMalik]

Well if all of you want Allah to declare War Against you, then yea GO FOR IMF interest Loans!!

O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest (riba), if you should be believers. And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. (Quran 2:278-9)

Those who consume interest (riba) cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. (Quran 2:275)

 

[Trango Towers]

Well if all of you want Allah to declare War Against you, then yea GO FOR IMF interest Loans!!

Do u have a bank account? If yes then u are in the system. You are at war against Allah

 

[Mr.Green]

Again. You repeated what you are taught.

When did the cleansed wealth become dirty? Do u realise
If you only ever have a savings of 100 rupees in your life and every year you pay 2.5% eventually you will have no saving?

So once again...when did the cleansed wealth become dirty. Answer the question. I don't want bs answer like above

The objective is that wealth should trickle down to the poor.

 

[Trango Towers]

The objective is that wealth should trickle down to the poor.

See you are not answering the question because it's a valid question.

Either you are dumb. Or shaytan. Now don't waste my time with stupid replies. Either answer the question or move on. Stop waffling bs

 

[Indos]

Well if all of you want Allah to declare War Against you, then yea GO FOR IMF interest Loans!!

In individual level, we are all Muslim dont give any interest to any one wanting to borrow money from us, usually it is in the form of charity like for our families and friends who are in financial difficulty or if they want to build their small business

-----------------------------------------------------------

Talking about interest rate for commercial entity like banks, I have stated about SOE banks in which the collector of interest is government and it can be regarded as tax ( Islam allows government to collect tax ( Zakat is similar in substance with tax when gov is the one who collect it like in early Islam ( stated in Quran) , verses about prophet Yusuf I stated in above post )

Talking about IMF, it is due to special circumtances ( situation ), in Islam even we can eat pig meat if it is in emergency situation

Taking loan from IMF and pay the small interest can be regarded as emergency while for countries like Indonesia where we cannot get cheap IMF money and must do it in open market by issuing government bond, it can be regarded as doing some kind of war, economic war. If Muslim countries cannot have good economy, we can be once again colonized like happening in old days. In a war, some thing that is not allowed, is allowed like killing another human ( under strict rule that he must be combatant soldiers and if he surrender we must not kill them )

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir

Green bhai, while Zakat is a nice idea where the citizens are encouraged to partcipate in the welfare of others and Zakat is among the progressive ideas of Islam but especially in South Asia it has just become a socially disconnected religious ritual.

Let's speak practically. Has 75 years of Zakat progressed Pakistan and removed socio-economic disparities from Pakistan ? It is all very well to give Zakat once a year and feel one has done his or her religious obligation but that is what it is, a forced religious obligation disconnected from understanding the social and socio-economic realities. A middle class person's zakat has no effect on the opressed reality of the bonded laborer working in Pakistan's brick kilns or the rural laborer upon whom the feudal sets his dogs. The Capitalist system of Pakistan can keep having zakat for the next 1000 years but that bonded laborer and the other bonded rural laborer will not see a change in their oppressed lives politically and socio-economically. So the middle class person and the upper class person should not just give the zakat once and year and be done with it but speak of total revolution where Pakistan becomes a progressive welfare-based society in entirety with automatic provisions for free housing, free basic food, free electricity, free telecom, free healthcare, free education etc and where all people are equal politically and socio-economically ( please read my proposed systems here and here ). After the new political system and socio-economic system have been established the zakat system should be continued to instill in the citizens the awareness that they should be socially responsible.

 

[Mr.Green]

See you are not answering the question because it's a valid question.

Either you are dumb. Or shaytan. Now don't waste my time with stupid replies. Either answer the question or move on. Stop waffling bs

I ask you a question, why is House Tax collected every year?

Green bhai, while Zakat is a nice idea where the citizens are encouraged to partcipate in the welfare of others and Zakat is among the progressive ideas of Islam but especially in South Asia it has just become a socially disconnected religious ritual.

Let's speak practically. Has 75 years of Zakat progressed Pakistan and removed socio-economic disparities from Pakistan ? It is all very well to give Zakat once a year and feel one has done his or her religious obligation but that is what it is, a forced religious obligation disconnected from understanding the social and socio-economic realities. A middle class person's zakat has no effect on the opressed reality of the bonded laborer working in Pakistan's brick kilns or the rural laborer upon whom the feudal sets his dogs. The Capitalist system of Pakistan can keep having zakat for the next 1000 years but that bonded laborer and the other bonded rural laborer will not see a change in their oppressed lives politically and socio-economically. So the middle class person and the upper class person should not just give the zakat once and year and be done with it but speak of total revolution where Pakistan becomes a progressive welfare-based society in entirety with automatic provisions for free housing, free basic food, free electricity, free telecom, free healthcare, free education etc and where all people are equal politically and socio-economically ( please read my proposed systems here and here ). After the new political system and socio-economic system have been established the zakat system should be continued to instill in the citizens the awareness that they should be socially responsible.

I have read that in Libya, Zakat was collected by the Government.