FLASH! Gripen Demo Clears Leh Trials!

[SpArK]

No Benny , its not maths .
Many of us here will be not be aware how defence deals , Offsets, operational costs etc work .
And how the costs of aircraft are matter of fluctuation while purchasing and their life-long operation.
200 mill for Eurofighter involves everything , if you calculate everything for Gripen it will similarly come out to 166 mill.
Remember when you purchase a jet its not only Jet that you purchase , you buy its Support+Spares+Weapons+Training equipment+Logistics etc whole lot of things .
Just like a laptop with 5 Year service warranty and associated accessories .
What most people on Forum dont understand is the Flyaway cost f the jet and Operational cost of Jet when inducted in active service

Here is a link that will give you idea how costs are currently in world market.
Brazil AF Chief: Fighter Pick By End Of March idrw.org
Not the prices of just fighters not spares etc.

read this link below - esp last line of article
Uncle Sam's War-Mart - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India
This is how prices of aircraft matter over their life time..
Now you can make out how 200mill of Eurofighter and 166 mill for Gripen over lifetime

For India what will matter is Fly-away cost + Support for parts which will not be manufactured in India under TOT + Weapons package . That will decide the final price offered by OEM to Indian gov.

 

[Indian-Devil]

No Benny , its not maths .
Many of us here will be not be aware how defence deals , Offsets, operational costs etc work .
And how the costs of aircraft are matter of fluctuation while purchasing and their life-long operation.
200 mill for Eurofighter involves everything , if you calculate everything for Gripen it will similarly come out to 166 mill.
Remember when you purchase a jet its not only Jet that you purchase , you buy its Support+Spares+Weapons+Training equipment+Logistics etc whole lot of things .
Just like a laptop with 5 Year service warranty and associated accessories .
What most people on Forum dont understand is the Flyaway cost f the jet and Operational cost of Jet when inducted in active service

Here is a link that will give you idea how costs are currently in world market.
Brazil AF Chief: Fighter Pick By End Of March idrw.org
Not the prices of just fighters not spares etc.

read this link below - esp last line of article
Uncle Sam's War-Mart - Special Report - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India
This is how prices of aircraft matter over their life time..
Now you can make out how 200mill of Eurofighter and 166 mill for Gripen over lifetime

For India what will matter is Fly-away cost + Support for parts which will not be manufactured in India under TOT + Weapons package . That will decide the final price offered by OEM to Indian gov.

Prateek, Cost of selected AC will not be same as mentioned here. As India will be getting only 18 AC in fly away condition and rest will be manufactured in India under complete ToT. Once these jets will be manufactured here then obeviously price will come down. You can compare the price of Su-30Mki which is imported from Russia and which is manufactured now by HAL, there is quite a diff. in price. Same will go for MRCA also.
Brazil deal is a different case. In that deal 3 decade service support was also included. Indian deal is quiet different than Brazil.

 

[KEETARP]

Prateek, Cost of selected AC will not be same as mentioned here. As India will be getting only 18 AC in fly away condition and rest will be manufactured in India under complete ToT. Once these jets will be manufactured here then obeviously price will come down. You can compare the price of Su-30Mki which is imported from Russia and which is manufactured now by HAL, there is quite a diff. in price. Same will go for MRCA also.
Brazil deal is a different case. In that deal 3 decade service support was also included. Indian deal is quiet different than Brazil.

Go thru the last line of my post .
And yes , I agree Prices will be less . But how much we don't know.
Even of remaining 108 jets , some will come in SDK (semi-knocked down kits) which will be assembled by HAL only , not built .
Boeing said 18-F18 in Flyaway + 36 in SDK + Rest with gradually increasing TOT as much as Indian company can absorb at a moment . SDK will be only marginally less than original Jet Flyaway cost.

These all Jets have a cutting edge Tech in them and no country will sell you Product of 20 Years research at prices what Russians did. All these jets will be build under licence and what profit will go back to respective companies is not known .
Infact it will be difficult bcoz at times more than 2 companies are controlling the Program.
For eg Gripen - It might be possible that for same Engine GE414 - We will end up paying royalty to USA and SWEDEN both.

Brazil's price for Flyaway cost is what will give us Near about cost of Jets in INDIA as well , royalty included for TOT.
Brazil hasn't asked for Deep TOT as India has.

And sukhoi's jet are cheap when built in India . Bcoz we dont have to pay royalty for some components which are INDIAN - Like the RWR,LWR,Radar processor,Core mission processor etc.
When talking about MRCA - These very above Electronics are very costly and we have to pay for them .
For eg SPECTRA and OSF - You know it makes up 35-40 of cost of Rafale
PIRATE and DASS are even costlier than what engine +captor combined cost together.

If India can replace SPECTRA with Tarang or similar system , Prices will come down significantly like in case of MKI .

 

[sancho]

Guys, keep in mind that numbers are the key!

24 F18Sh for Australia cost around $4.5 billions, so around $190 million each (The 100 F35 they ordered, cost "only" $160 million each)!

36 Rafale for Brazil are expected between $8 and 10 billions, so $220 - 270 million each!

60 Rafale for UAE are expected between $6 and 8 billions, so between $100 and 130 million each!

The offer for 96 Rafales to Saudi Arabia was for aroud $7.5 billions (todays exchange rates), so only around $78 million each (in that time it must have been around $90 millions).

These all are systems costs, including some spares, weapons and support and the MMRCA competition is even for at least 126 fighters, so the more fighters you order, the less you pay for each unit!

 

[KEETARP]

^^^
Sancho , the prices of UAE and BRAZIL are different for many reasons .
1- UAE operates large nos of Mirage 2000-9 with many Rafale subsystem on it
It might be possible that they have large inventory of DAMOCLES Targeting POD and MICA,Black Apache and various A2S missile in store already, we can include even Pod equipment for Reconnaissance and jamming as well . While Brazil has to pay for them separately. So cost will rise .

2- Brazil want's AESA radar , but only UAE is ready to Fund the development of Radar , same will be case with Engine .
It does bring an question whether India would have to pay royalty to UAE , akin to F16 APG80 case

 

[sancho]

^^^
Sancho , the prices of UAE and BRAZIL are different for many reasons .
1- UAE operates large nos of Mirage 2000-9 with many Rafale subsystem on it
It might be possible that they have large inventory of DAMOCLES Targeting POD and MICA,Black Apache and various A2S missile in store already, we can include even Pod equipment for Reconnaissance and jamming as well . While Brazil has to pay for them separately. So cost will rise .

2- Brazil want's AESA radar , but only UAE is ready to Fund the development of Radar , same will be case with Engine .
It does bring an question whether India would have to pay royalty to UAE , akin to F16 APG80 case

Brazil has some second hand Mirage 2000 and it is even speculated that France offers them the UAE Mirage 2009s as a stopgap till the Rafales will be inducted. But yes, they have to pay more for the weapons, but as your source also said, the cost for weapons and spares... was only $4 millions, so the big part of the cost are the fly away cost.
Nobody has to fund the AESA radar extra, because France already funded it and it is an F3 standard, UAE might have to pay more because they want a further improved version (F4), with higher thrust engines, CFTs and some other stuff. However, the main difference will still be the numbers of fighters one wants to buy.

G8 mate!

 

[KEETARP]

^^^^
Replace 4mill with 4Bill , otherwise MBDA will be Bankrupt