Five things going right in Pakistan

[krash]

The writer has taught international relations and diplomacy at Boston University and at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy and was the vice chancellor of LUMS.

The challenges that Pakistan faces are all too real. These pages are, in fact, an unending litany of all that is not going right in Pakistan. Indeed, our greatest challenge is to reverse the immense negative trends that glare us in the face. But it is also important to recognise, celebrate and encourage the trends that are progressing in the right direction. Arguably, the key to achieving the former lies – at least, partially – in whether we can progressively invest in the latter.

In this spirit of identifying positive trends that have the potential for large-scale and long-term societal improvement, let me offer five examples of things going right in Pakistan. This is neither a comprehensive offering, nor presented in any particular order. My list emanates from the belief that a failure today to recognise that which is good – even when less than perfect – will condemn us tomorrow to lamenting the unfulfilled potential of the same. And that would be a terrible waste.

A giving people. In the year 2000, a landmark study by the Pakistan Centre for Philanthropy (PCP) discovered that twice as much money was contributed annually by private philanthropy in Pakistan as the then total foreign assistance. In 2006, my book ‘Pakistanis in America: Portrait of a Giving Community’ estimated that the giving and volunteerism by the Pakistani diaspora in the US is worth more than a billion US dollars. My own recent experience at the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS) has reaffirmed and reinforced my faith in Pakistanis as a giving people.

Despite a deep cynicism that pervades our societal persona, acts of generosity and giving are abundant all around us, at all times, in all forms, and at all scales. Our giving may not be particularly well-organised, it may be more directed at individuals than institutions, and you may often hear complaints of how it is used, but the undeniable fact is that we are a giving people. Not just the most affluent amongst us, but all. Importantly, in the absence of a formal social security apparatus, private giving acts as a social safety net for many. Across the country, the sufaid-poshi (middle class façade) of so many is maintained by acts of personal giving without which our social landscape would be even more fractured than it is.

Desire for education. There is a palpable desire and demand for education in Pakistan – especially amongst the lower-middle class and the poor. This was not always so. Until fairly recently a major challenge was convincing the relatively poor to invest in the education of their children. Today, one consistently finds parents investing more than what they can afford in the schooling of their children. Not merely because the cost of education has gone up, but also because of a strong desire to give – even if it has to be ‘buy’ – the best education they can for their children.

It is not a trivial matter that the belief in education as a passport to success is beginning to set roots in society, especially amongst the lower-middle and lower economic classes. Arguably, the growth of private schools and the changing landscape of higher education are driven not only by government policy and governance failures, but also by demand-side impulses.

Of course, the myriad challenges that beset our education system at every level – of which the most vital ones relate to education quality much more than quantity – stand in sharp contrast to this growing desire for education. The tragedy is that this strong desire for education has not yet translated to actual improvement. Indeed, in many instances it has been the reverse. However, it need not always be so. Ultimately, there can be no greater driver of quality in education than households that begin to recognise and demand quality.

Pakistaniat. Pakistanis are incessantly and incurably obsessed with Pakistan. We discuss, debate, deliberate, delineate, dispute and eventually devour all things Pakistan with a passion that is both unusual an endearing. I realised just how important ‘Pakistaniness’ is to Pakistanis in the years I edited the website pakistaniat.com. The intensity, emotion and centrality that we invest in discussions related to Pakistan is beyond the norm; is more pervasive than most want to acknowledge, and cannot be dismissed as simple flag-waving.

The constant struggle to grapple with and put meaning into the idea of ‘Pakistaniness’ is a very real and meaningful struggle, especially (but not only) amongst the young. All too often, this merely motivates deep and often divisive fractures of identity that translate into impassioned argument about whose ‘Pakistaniat’ is right and whose is not. But on more rare but also more rewarding moments, the same epicentre can release an immense positive energy that we suddenly discover amongst ourselves when confronted by a common cause that we can all agree on: an external threat, a natural disaster, a game of cricket. If only we could find ways to create more common cause.

Entrepreneurship. In many developing economies the logic of necessity dictates a constant search for novel solutions to overcome hurdles posed by adversity, scarcity and lack of opportunity. In South Asia we have a long and illustrious history of such ingenuity and a special word for it: ‘jugaar.’ Within the culture of jugaar lies the roots of what may be called Survival Enterprise. Today, battalions of the educated young in Pakistan are transforming this legacy into a new wave of knowledge-based innovation and entrepreneurship.

The energy and excitement that is on display anytime an entrepreneurial competition is held anywhere in Pakistan is not just unmatched, but outright infectious. There is clearly a wave of enterprise and innovation running through our educated youth – especially, but not solely, those armed with the liberating spirit of information technologies. It has begun to show up in the still infant but growing world of the Pakistani internet, in successful web businesses being run out of small-town Pakistan, in the emergence of Pakistani designer brands, in the mushrooming of boutique and chain restaurants. But it is most evident in the choices that our young are making at colleges and universities. Suddenly it has become cool to think about entrepreneurship.

Voice. Belonging to a generation whose greatest sin was having remained silent in times of tribulation, there is probably nothing more endearing to me in Pakistan today than the fact that many of the things that we do identify as our strongest signs of hope are, in fact, manifestations of a society struggling to find voice.

Charges of having turned into a cacophony aside, the rise of the electronic media in Pakistan needs to be credited for having transformed the national discourse – mostly for the good. Also worth celebrating is a new generation of Pakistani music, which has given voice to a renewed social consciousness. The debacle of ‘Eye to Eye’ notwithstanding, the (re-)emergence of music with a mission on contemporary issues – education, inequity, corruption, distortion of history, injustice, Sufism, etc – has allowed the young in Pakistan to engage, enthuse and educate the national discourse in a new and powerful voice.

The manifestation of societal voice is debate and discourse. Debate can sometimes be divisive. Discourse can sometimes be jarring. But no matter how uncomfortable the questions – on the role of democracy, of institutions, of law, of the media itself, and maybe one day also of religion – a society that gives voice to its internal angst is better off than one that does not.

The News is pleased to announce that Adil Najam will now feature as a regular columnist on Saturdays.

Email: adil.najam@**********

Always liked this man. He wasn't as optimistic when he came back to Pakistan but the change in his thought has been gradual and quite visible.

 

[Kompromat]

@Oscar @Argus Panoptes @ajpirzada

This might interest you, lets have a talk about this one, shall we?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@Oscar @Argus Panoptes @ajpirzada

This might interest you, lets have a talk about this one, shall we?

The article is okay as a read, but does not really say much:


A giving people? There is simply too much suffering without any institutional support or government plans to alleviate it. So the people help eahc other out where and how they can as much of sheer necessity and lack of any alternatives than anything else.

Desire for education? Every nation has that. Here, it is more to do with as a way to go abroad than the love of knowledge.

Pakistaniat? Another name for misguided nationalism. Every nation has that too, but here, it is the holy custodians of the eye-dee-ah-lo-jeee off paa-kus-taan who define and direct the whole debate to suit certain preferred outcomes.

Entrepreneurship? This is sheer desperation of earning a living in very trying circumstances manifesting itself, nothing more.

Voice? Good, but carefully orchestrated to remain ineffective, just as we like it.

 

[ajpirzada]

The article is okay as a read, but does not really say much:


A giving people? There is simply too much suffering without any institutional support or government plans to alleviate it. So the people help eahc other out where and how they can as much of sheer necessity and lack of any alternatives than anything else.

Desire for education? Every nation has that. Here, it is more to do with as a way to go abroad than the love of knowledge.

Pakistaniat? Another name for misguided nationalism. Every nation has that too, but here, it is the holy custodians of the eye-dee-ah-lo-jeee off paa-kus-taan who define and direct the whole debate to suit certain preferred outcomes.

Entrepreneurship? This is sheer desperation of earning a living in very trying circumstances manifesting itself, nothing more.

Voice? Good, but carefully orchestrated to remain ineffective, just as we like it.

looool sorry but had to get it out of me. very impressed at u turning each argument on its head. haha

anyways i agree with most of what the article says except that im not really sure about the desire for education. is it the desire for better education by those who were already getting educated or by the uneducated? but then what is there to say that the desire was not there before? had the educational institutions been giving proper education which was at the same time also affordable, even the previous generations might be have been more educated than they were. but then i havent lived enough to be able to see any marked change in such a desire over time.
also, im not sure how much of the voice is other than distraction plus chaos and the desire to impose their prior beliefs. i find significant chunk of the voice which i hear or read in the media to be destructive.

but i do agree that we are a very giving nation. i have seen people come on roads here in UK following this recession. had the Swat operation IDP situation happened here, these people would have robbed each other. but what happened in Pakistan with people selling their properties to accommodate their fellow brethren was spectacular.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

looool sorry but had to get it out of me. very impressed at u turning each argument on its head. haha

anyways i agree with most of what the article says except that im not really sure about the desire for education. is it the desire for better education by those who were already getting educated or by the uneducated? but then what is there to say that the desire was not there before? had the educational institutions been giving proper education which was at the same time also affordable, even the previous generations might be have been more educated than they were. but then i havent lived enough to be able to see any marked change in such a desire over time.
also, im not sure how much of the voice is other than distraction plus chaos and the desire to impose their prior beliefs. i find significant chunk of the voice which i hear or read in the media to be destructive.

but i do agree that we are a very giving nation. i have seen people come on roads here in UK following this recession. had the Swat operation IDP situation happened here, these people would have robbed each other. but what happened in Pakistan with people selling their properties to accommodate their fellow brethren was spectacular.

Well, it is true that there are TWO sides to every issue, right? A balanced discussion should at at both the pros and cons, would you not agree Sir?

 

[livingdead]

The most positive thing about pakistan is, things can only get better from now on.
Where as we are expecting a bad time, economically at least

 

[krash]

The article is okay as a read, but does not really say much:


A giving people? There is simply too much suffering without any institutional support or government plans to alleviate it. So the people help eahc other out where and how they can as much of sheer necessity and lack of any alternatives than anything else.

That is a shallow view indeed. First there are societies and countries in far dire straights than is the Pakistani society. We don't see this happening there. Furthermore, this trend isn't a recent one and has been there since our inception. Point being that the society is a giving one. How is that important? It shows that there still are some very bright societal characteristics that the Pakistani people posses. Now why is this important? Firstly, it goes against the popular claims of Pakistan being a jungle with the societal structures non-existent. More importantly, it is these societal characteristics which enable a society to grow and further pursue societal betterment. This isn't a matter of showing the morals of the Pakistani people but showing the lesser seen and very encouraging societal structures and norms. A society is built upon these and Pakistan's problem isn't the economy its the society.

Desire for education? Every nation has that. Here, it is more to do with as a way to go abroad than the love of knowledge.

That is an even shallower statement. The majority of Pakistani students study in colleges and universities which would hardly count as a ticket towards sending you to a good job let alone abroad. On top of that this majority of students stays in Pakistan. The students we are talking about here are from the less privileged families who's parents had no concept of why education is important. This is changing, not just now but has been for the past 5-8 years at least. This has been in pursuit of economic betterment, which is now seen to be achieved, more or less, only through education. The way to go abroad for these families has always been through illegal means and then have their kids run shops or drive taxis there. The problem of quality still remains, as was rightly pointed out in the article, and because of that you see MBAs driving rikshaws in Lahore. Maybe their planning to drive it all the way up to New York but only time will tell.

Another recent trend is that a larger proportion of the students going abroad for their higher education are in fact returning to Pakistan. I see it everyday.

As for "the love of knowledge"; there is no society in the world in this day and age with that characteristic. You get individuals who exhibit that trait and they are their in Pakistan too, everyone else goes after it for economic gain. Canada and the US are actually good examples of that. Most of the people there stop after graduating high school or maybe getting a college diploma, the ones who do surpass that rarely ever enroll in a Master's program. And then the handful of those who do are the ones who's current jobs are demanding a masters degree or the ones who were laid off and decided to pursue one with government loans trying to expand their resumes (simple opportunity loss syndrome). This is why you see most of their Universities manned by foreign professors and classes filled with foreign students. The locals don't do it because they don't have to to earn a reasonable living.

Pakistaniat? Another name for misguided nationalism. Every nation has that too, but here, it is the holy custodians of the eye-dee-ah-lo-jeee off paa-kus-taan who define and direct the whole debate to suit certain preferred outcomes.

There was no mention of the ideology of Pakistan in the article. It was a very simple point that the peoples of Pakistan and the society which seems bifurcated on an issue and divisive on every other comes together so easily and so strongly, without any need for anyone to tell them to or the need to solve the apparent divides i.e. the divides between the people of Pakistan can go out the window in a jiffy, meaning that there is something intrinsic and innate which does unite us. This also runs "holy custodians of the eye-dee-ah-lo-jeee off paa-kus-taan who define and direct the whole debate to suit certain preferred outcomes" into the ground.

Entrepreneurship? This is sheer desperation of earning a living in very trying circumstances manifesting itself, nothing more.

.........

Anyway, entrepreneurship is not in result to the quest for survival but in pursuit of progress. This is why it is overwhelmingly only associated with the developed societies and nations where people can afford to think outside the box without worrying about where the next meal is coming from. A preliminary study on entrepreneurship will tell you all of this. There are many studies out there which try to find ways to encourage entrepreneurship in the developed world, which is one of the building blocks of progress and sustaining it, telling that it does not come automatically and a certain environment needs to be cultivated for it, which almost always involves government subsidies, etc. Why? Because entrepreneurship isn't very wise financially.

Voice? Good, but carefully orchestrated to remain ineffective, just as we like it.

Incorrect. Firstly,the article doesn't just talk about the voice of the media but the voice of the people against the powers of status quo, which has never,to date, been orchestrated successfully anywhere in the world. This said voice, also pointed out in the article, was completely absent until now,except for the tens of people protesting in a square or the hundreds paid to gather in a lot, this btw does not constitute as 'voice'.
Voice is the first and most important step towards reforming a society, in the five stages of product development it would count as crossing the chasm. Next comes the tornado stage which can be slow like in Pakistan or fast like in Egypt. The fact still remains that it snowballs, as has been seen everywhere in the world. The authorities or the forces of status quo always try to curb it and, as has been seen, there actions are primarily focused at killing the voice. For example, it is illegal in Canada for more than five people to gather at one place and protest. Raising of voices is the first sign that the people have begun opposing.

looool sorry but had to get it out of me. very impressed at u turning each argument on its head. haha

anyways i agree with most of what the article says except that im not really sure about the desire for education. is it the desire for better education by those who were already getting educated or by the uneducated? but then what is there to say that the desire was not there before? had the educational institutions been giving proper education which was at the same time also affordable, even the previous generations might be have been more educated than they were. but then i havent lived enough to be able to see any marked change in such a desire over time.

Firstly the article says it is talking about the lower-middle and lower classes i.e. the uneducated. Now, i'll explain where Mr. Najam is coming from. LUMS runs the National Outreach Program (NOP). Under this program they go to the far-flung areas of Pakistan where education is non-existent and the people are poor, e.g. internal Sindh, villages of Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan, FATA, etc., etc. There they go to the local schools and houses distributing forms and requesting local schools, if there are any, to nominate their bright students for the NOP. These selected students are then brought to the LUMS campus for a little more than 3 months for 1 to 2 years in the summer, when regular classes are not happening, where their lodging and food is taken care of and they are given a monthly allowance. Here the NOP students are taught different subjects and prepared for their SATs. Then the ones who successfully pass the internal LUMS NOP exams (mock SATs) are sent to give the SATs. The ones who successfully pass the SATs with scores that meet LUMS' minimum criteria are then admitted into LUMS with all expenses and a monthly allowance taken care of by the University. It was a proud moment, a year ago, for everyone associated with the university when one of LUMS' guards got his daughter enrolled into LUMS. Funny part was that she didn't want to come and instead wanted to pursue medicine, the VC and her father convinced her otherwise.

Now before, the NOP had a tough time convincing parents to send their kids to study. The usual excuses were; there's no need for education, it ruins our values, we have more need for the kid to start working, kia teer marlay ga/gee yeh parh ke?, etc., etc. These excuses were quite prevalent through out our less fortunate peoples, this is commonly known. The people were averse to sending their kids to study, resources or no resources. This however is changing. The parents are showing keen interest in getting their kids educated and are working beyond their means for that. LUMS has kinda had a direct window into all of this because of the NOP. But it is becoming quite apparent. You can talk to different people and easily see that the mind sets are changing.

also, im not sure how much of the voice is other than distraction plus chaos and the desire to impose their prior beliefs. i find significant chunk of the voice which i hear or read in the media to be destructive.

You cannot hope for one all wise voice to rise up in unity. At first there will be a hundred opposing voices fighting each other. The loudest of these would be of the status quo. These different voices will fight until the weaker ones are all defeated one by one in turn strengthening the victor voice until it becomes strong enough to throw the powers that be out of the window. This is how it works, there's no magical way to it. This is the whole point of the voice. The recent elections are a really good example contrary to your claim. The media can try to mold the public voice but as is evident the people are increasingly not buying it. Only that this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2muWwwmq9c

has become this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEpnwCPgH7g

and this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq0Ml-Z3kP0

The difference is that Habib Jalib was thrown into a jail and that today's voice is young which is always going to be more powerful. BTW the rapper from the second video went abroad to study and then came back.

but i do agree that we are a very giving nation. i have seen people come on roads here in UK following this recession. had the Swat operation IDP situation happened here, these people would have robbed each other. but what happened in Pakistan with people selling their properties to accommodate their fellow brethren was spectacular.

Amongst the unending frustration and disappointments, twice I've been thoroughly impressed by the people of Pakistan; first the 2005 quake and second the recent elections.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

That is a shallow view indeed. First there are societies and countries in far dire straights than is the Pakistani society. We don't see this happening there. Furthermore, this trend isn't a recent one and has been there since our inception. Point being that the society is a giving one. How is that important? It shows that there still are some very bright societal characteristics that the Pakistani people posses. Now why is this important? Firstly, it goes against the popular claims of Pakistan being a jungle with the societal structures non-existent. More importantly, it is these societal characteristics which enable a society to grow and further pursue societal betterment. This isn't a matter of showing the morals of the Pakistani people but showing the lesser seen and very encouraging societal structures and norms. A society is built upon these and Pakistan's problem isn't the economy its the society.

Societies in far dire straits also have the same giving tendencies. For example Somalia. And just like them, Pakistani society, despite all this giving, is simply not growing to pursue societal betterment. What social indicator has shown any betterment due to this charitable trait?

That is an even shallower statement. The majority of Pakistani students study in colleges and universities which would hardly count as a ticket towards sending you to a good job let alone abroad. On top of that this majority of students stays in Pakistan. The students we are talking about here are from the less privileged families who's parents had no concept of why education is important. This is changing, not just now but has been for the past 5-8 years at least. This has been in pursuit of economic betterment, which is now seen to be achieved, more or less, only through education. The way to go abroad for these families has always been through illegal means and then have their kids run shops or drive taxis there. The problem of quality still remains, as was rightly pointed out in the article, and because of that you see MBAs driving rikshaws in Lahore. Maybe their planning to drive it all the way up to New York but only time will tell.

Another recent trend is that a larger proportion of the students going abroad for their higher education are in fact returning to Pakistan. I see it everyday.

As for "the love of knowledge"; there is no society in the world in this day and age with that characteristic. You get individuals who exhibit that trait and they are their in Pakistan too, everyone else goes after it for economic gain. Canada and the US are actually good examples of that. Most of the people there stop after graduating high school or maybe getting a college diploma, the ones who do surpass that rarely ever enroll in a Master's program. And then the handful of those who do are the ones who's current jobs are demanding a masters degree or the ones who were laid off and decided to pursue one with government loans trying to expand their resumes (simple opportunity loss syndrome). This is why you see most of their Universities manned by foreign professors and classes filled with foreign students. The locals don't do it because they don't have to to earn a reasonable living.

So what do these LQLT (low quality locally trained) people do? Have you tried to see what sort of work any local graduate does in any field? The lucky ones get into a government or Army job with sifarish. The others are left to fend for themselves.

There was no mention of the ideology of Pakistan in the article. It was a very simple point that the peoples of Pakistan and the society which seems bifurcated on an issue and divisive on every other comes together so easily and so strongly, without any need for anyone to tell them to or the need to solve the apparent divides i.e. the divides between the people of Pakistan can go out the window in a jiffy, meaning that there is something intrinsic and innate which does unite us. This also runs "holy custodians of the eye-dee-ah-lo-jeee off paa-kus-taan who define and direct the whole debate to suit certain preferred outcomes" into the ground.

So what does this sentence refer to: "The constant struggle to grapple with and put meaning into the idea of ‘Pakistaniness’ is a very real and meaningful struggle" Isn't this the famous "Nazria-e-Pakistan" that is translated as the "Ideology of Pakistan"? And let me be blunt: It is only the self-appointed custodian of said ideology who think that the nation is of one mind behind them. That is a hollow claim that will come crashing down if put to any sort of a real test.

Anyway, entrepreneurship is not in result to the quest for survival but in pursuit of progress. This is why it is overwhelmingly only associated with the developed societies and nations where people can afford to think outside the box without worrying about where the next meal is coming from. A preliminary study on entrepreneurship will tell you all of this. There are many studies out there which try to find ways to encourage entrepreneurship in the developed world, which is one of the building blocks of progress and sustaining it, telling that it does not come automatically and a certain environment needs to be cultivated for it, which almost always involves government subsidies, etc. Why? Because entrepreneurship isn't very wise financially.

Pursuit of progress via entrepreneurship? So where are the tangible results similar to Silicon Valley or even Bangalore? That building named after a talented young girl? What else?

Incorrect. Firstly,the article doesn't just talk about the voice of the media but the voice of the people against the powers of status quo, which has never,to date, been orchestrated successfully anywhere in the world. This said voice, also pointed out in the article, was completely absent until now,except for the tens of people protesting in a square or the hundreds paid to gather in a lot, this btw does not constitute as 'voice'.
Voice is the first and most important step towards reforming a society, in the five stages of product development it would count as crossing the chasm. Next comes the tornado stage which can be slow like in Pakistan or fast like in Egypt. The fact still remains that it snowballs, as has been seen everywhere in the world. The authorities or the forces of status quo always try to curb it and, as has been seen, there actions are primarily focused at killing the voice. For example, it is illegal in Canada for more than five people to gather at one place and protest. Raising of voices is the first sign that the people have begun opposing. ...............

Yes, the so-called voice of the people, that is intentionally kept ineffective, just like I said. Slow tornado? Is that anything like the tsunami that fizzled out recently?

I think my points as I described them are all valid and robust.

 

[OrionHunter]

Pakistaniat? Another name for misguided nationalism. Every nation has that too, but here, it is the holy custodians of the eye-dee-ah-lo-jeee off paa-kus-taan who define and direct the whole debate to suit certain preferred outcomes.

Nice article, but as regards 'Pakistaniat' I am surprised at the number of Pakistanis on PDF who say their priority would be to fight for Islam first and then only Pakistan! Is this only a minority opinion or does this reflect the opinion of Pakistanis in general? If yes, then it's bad news! A nation and nation-building comes first always and every time. Not religion.

 

[Kompromat]

Nice article, but as regards 'Pakistaniat' I am surprised at the number of Pakistanis on PDF who say their priority would be to fight for Islam first and then only Pakistan! Is this only a minority opinion or does this reflect the opinion of Pakistanis in general? If yes, then it's bad news! A nation and nation-building comes first always and every time. Not religion.

Thats because you have a confused understanding of nationalism. Not our fault.

 

[Zarvan]

Nice article, but as regards 'Pakistaniat' I am surprised at the number of Pakistanis on PDF who say their priority would be to fight for Islam first and then only Pakistan! Is this only a minority opinion or does this reflect the opinion of Pakistanis in general? If yes, then it's bad news! A nation and nation-building comes first always and every time. Not religion.

Sir because you don't have any idea about Islam and Nationalism Sir Islam always come first for Muslims and every thing else is secondary I love this country I mean Pakistan but only because majority who live here are Muslims and I would defend it at any cost at cost of my life Sir the kind of nationalism you guys talk about Iqbal called it the biggest false GOD of modern times we are Muslims and Pakistanis because we were born in Pakistan an we would defend it at any cost and also support our Muslim brothers in their fight against kufr

 

[krash]

Societies in far dire straits also have the same giving tendencies. For example Somalia. And just like them, Pakistani society, despite all this giving, is simply not growing to pursue societal betterment. What social indicator has shown any betterment due to this charitable trait?

First, I'll have to request a reference to the philanthropic figures in Somalia, next I'd like anything credible stating that private philanthropy increases as poverty in the society increases. Because, to me at least, it seems very counter-intuitive and as such I cannot take your word for it. The man is an eminent scholar, if he's presenting it as something out of the ordinary I'll take his word for it.

Second, this societal characteristic was never claimed by me or the author to stand as a direct catalyst for societal betterment but more of an indicator that societal values still persist. And as it goes, societal betterment is dependent on societal values, quite a lot of them. Read everything again if its still not clear.

So what do these LQLT (low quality locally trained) people do? Have you tried to see what sort of work any local graduate does in any field? The lucky ones get into a government or Army job with sifarish. The others are left to fend for themselves.

You could have just read my post or the article. Anyway, the article or my post never claimed anything remotely similar to Pakistanis sprouting Einsteins from every pothole. In fact the article and my post, both clearly mentioned that where the demand for education was increasing the quality of education available was destroying most of the advantages to be gained by that increase. The point being presented was that the demand and the realization for education is increasing amongst the poorer people of Pakistan. I remember stating something about MBAs driving rikshaws in Lahore, if I remember correctly. So what was your point? Are you saying that this new thirst for education is useless? And that it is not of note? The article has the answer for that too. Please read it again. And are you referring to all Pakistani graduates as LQLT? Got confused there.

So what does this sentence refer to: "The constant struggle to grapple with and put meaning into the idea of ‘Pakistaniness’ is a very real and meaningful struggle" Isn't this the famous "Nazria-e-Pakistan" that is translated as the "Ideology of Pakistan"? And let me be blunt: It is only the self-appointed custodian of said ideology who think that the nation is of one mind behind them. That is a hollow claim that will come crashing down if put to any sort of a real test.

The quoted sentence clearly states that the people are in pursuit of and struggling in finding the Pakistaneness for themselves, loosely translated 'being Pakistani' and whatever that comes with it. Then it goes on to explain that a good sign for this struggle is that the peoples have shown time and again that they can unite effortlessly, at times on non-issues. This also kills the claim of hollow-ness and the coming crash. This was exactly the point. No nation in the world is 'of one mind behind them', UK isn't, India isn't, the US isn't, Canada certainly isn't. The point is always of uniting in favor of the obvious larger collective interests.

Pursuit of progress via entrepreneurship? So where are the tangible results similar to Silicon Valley or even Bangalore? That building named after a talented young girl? What else?

If you have a magic wand then by all means come help us expedite everything. Because as far as I remember it took the US a few decades of direct government input with its virtually unlimited funds to develop the Silicon Valley and even more for India to develop Bangalore. As for the tangible results read up on the local small scale businesses taking the places of the withdrawn foreign businesses. The article gives a few examples as well.

Yes, the so-called voice of the people, that is intentionally kept ineffective, just like I said. Slow tornado? Is that anything like the tsunami that fizzled out recently?

I think my points as I described them are all valid and robust.

Every voice is ineffective until at the end, has always been, will always be. This is more of an excuse for the ones who'd rather stay indoors and watch everything on the tv. Something which the article tells the older generation is guilty of. And I wrote a para on the fact that the status quo forces always try to keep it ineffective. It would be pretty idiotic if they didn't. More importantly, the point was that there is a voice now where there wasn't only a few years ago. Only a person not willing to see would demand results within a fortnight.

ps: Everyone thinks or at least claims that their points are valid and robust...Its a pre-req for claiming higher intellectual ground or justifying the disagreement. But then, claims are meant to be challenged. Btw, which points? You've already changed some of them once.

 

[OrionHunter]

Thats because you have a confused understanding of nationalism. Not our fault.

Disagree! I suggest you take some time to go through this....

http://ux.brookdalecc.edu/fac/histo...ft Word - Nationalism and Pakistan, Hamed.pdf

That would probably clear things up a bit.

 

[Spring Onion]

IN few words despite one of the few countries in the world that is facing most of hardships and troubled times, Pakistan and Pakistanis are standing up , still eyeing progress and peace.

In other words "Peace through standing up NOT through fabricated Springs"

 

[Argus Panoptes]

First, I'll have to request a reference to the philanthropic figures in Somalia, next I'd like anything credible stating that private philanthropy increases as poverty in the society increases. Because, to me at least, it seems very counter-intuitive and as such I cannot take your word for it. The man is an eminent scholar, if he's presenting it as something out of the ordinary I'll take his word for it.

Second, this societal characteristic was never claimed by me or the author to stand as a direct catalyst for societal betterment but more of an indicator that societal values still persist. And as it goes, societal betterment is dependent on societal values, quite a lot of them. Read everything again if its still not clear.




You could have just read my post or the article. Anyway, the article or my post never claimed anything remotely similar to Pakistanis sprouting Einsteins from every pothole. In fact the article and my post, both clearly mentioned that where the demand for education was increasing the quality of education available was destroying most of the advantages to be gained by that increase. The point being presented was that the demand and the realization for education is increasing amongst the poorer people of Pakistan. I remember stating something about MBAs driving rikshaws in Lahore, if I remember correctly. So what was your point? Are you saying that this new thirst for education is useless? And that it is not of note? The article has the answer for that too. Please read it again. And are you referring to all Pakistani graduates as LQLT? Got confused there.




The quoted sentence clearly states that the people are in pursuit of and struggling in finding the Pakistaneness for themselves, loosely translated 'being Pakistani' and whatever that comes with it. Then it goes on to explain that a good sign for this struggle is that the peoples have shown time and again that they can unite effortlessly, at times on non-issues. This also kills the claim of hollow-ness and the coming crash. This was exactly the point. No nation in the world is 'of one mind behind them', UK isn't, India isn't, the US isn't, Canada certainly isn't. The point is always of uniting in favor of the obvious larger collective interests.



If you have a magic wand then by all means come help us expedite everything. Because as far as I remember it took the US a few decades of direct government input with its virtually unlimited funds to develop the Silicon Valley and even more for India to develop Bangalore. As for the tangible results read up on the local small scale businesses taking the places of the withdrawn foreign businesses. The article gives a few examples as well.



Every voice is ineffective until at the end, has always been, will always be. This is more of an excuse for the ones who'd rather stay indoors and watch everything on the tv. Something which the article tells the older generation is guilty of. And I wrote a para on the fact that the status quo forces always try to keep it ineffective. It would be pretty idiotic if they didn't. More importantly, the point was that there is a voice now where there wasn't only a few years ago. Only a person not willing to see would demand results within a fortnight.

ps: Everyone thinks or at least claims that their points are valid and robust...Its a pre-req for claiming higher intellectual ground or justifying the disagreement. But then, claims are meant to be challenged. Btw, which points? You've already changed some of them once.

Okay, I will concede to your side of the debate, that the five things mentioned are going "right" in Pakistan. Now, please tell me where are the actual results of all this right stuff? That is, just what do these five right things actually do? Precious little, that is what. May be some others will chime in with their views too.

What good are the dedicated crew, fine sails, and good provisions on a ship when it is taking on water below decks?