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First eliminations in MMRCA expected this month

:) As I said before, Gripen NG is more or less my second choice, but the Rafale is the only fighter that offers so many different advantages and that's the reason why many people supports it. I would be happy with any European fighter actually and I would be happy for IAF with F18SH too, but it lacks the advantages in many other field. The Mig 35 would be a choice that I couldn't understand at all, costly in operating it, limited A2G capabilities, no new weapons, or capabilities at all, overdependance and price increasings likely and with the experience of Migs quality issues in long terms, it is a bad choice anyway.

G8!
Super Hornets are much more superior than the Mig 35's. However, without the advanced radar of which would not be on an exported plane, perhaps it would be a wash. maintainence is much less with a Super Hornet. However, they are a large, double engine aircraft. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 
the Gripen would seem to be the best second string fighter for India. It is much cheaper to buy, so you could buy more, it is way cheaper to fly, so it won't eat your operating budget, it has unique capabilities to operate from short fields and in semi-prepared areas, good for the border regions, it would probably make a good carrier plane for the Navy, and it has good (western) safety, reliability, weapons, and avionics suite. Pretty much perfect for the stated requirements. As noted, politically not as good.
 
well pitty for india they can only choose one type of jet if they eliminate MIG 35 russia will sell engine to pakistan and if they eliminate frenchs they well sell avionics and radars for JF 17 if they eliminate USA more F 16 will come if they eliminate Gripen israel will be angry well what ever they do indians are loosers

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Your Blood group must be B +VE

:rofl::rofl:

If everybody is ready to sell arms to Pakistan, why don't u buy them.

Russian and European will hardly sell you anything; coz Chinese will get access to their techs through you and get them copied.

Other than F16, I don't think there will be anything for Pakistan. And you are getting F16 already.

Yes...............After buying 126 fighters with an option to get 65-70 more, INDIA will really be a looser.....:chilli:
 
I agree on the other 2 but I dont think F 16 will go to the next level. I think GoI will keep Rafale in the running though but only as a gesture. No hope for it to make it to the final cut.. F 18 seems to be the deal. Deal signatures in Nov when Obama comes visiting..

Well Obama will sign some defence deals but it will not be the mmrca , one the reason being that i dont think indian govt will finalise all the negoations and price agreement by november , what will be known by then is that which 3 aircraft have been shortlisted and there price quotes will be under evaluation
What u can expect OBAMA to sign is the 5.8 Billion USD FOR 10 C17 Globemaster and the 600 Million USD deal for 145 light artillery guns

AND I THINK THAT 6.4 BILLION USD IS ENOUGH TO KEEP UNCLE SAM HAPPY FOR NOW
AND IF THEY MAKE SOME NOISE , THEN THERE IS ALSO THE CONTRACT FOR 40 AIRCRAFT , VALUED AT 4.8 BILLION USD , WHICH IS FOR THE INDIAN NAVY AIRCRAFT CARRIER , WE CAN GIVE THEM THIS CONTRACT
 
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First eliminations in MMRCA expected this month​

07 Jul 2010 : While it’s too soon to predict a likely winner for India’s huge competition for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), the first indicators should be out as early as the next week when the technical evaluation committee’s report comes out.

Reports state that this deal for 126 fighters will cost $10 billion, but there exist huge price variances between the offered fighters of varying capability. And this figure is a lifecycle cost – not an acquisition cost — so it is not clear if the number of fighters is fixed or whether the budget figure is. Half the fighters would not qualify even before going in to trials depending on the answer.

This is the first indication of the general confusion in the competition. The second is why a single engine aircraft with a 1970’s airframe is in the same competition as the most modern and expensive twin engine heavy hitter. The Indian Ministry of Defense has drafted the tender so broadly that most fighters would qualify. But this lackadaisical attitude will cost competitors hundreds of millions of dollars when they compete but fail. One competitor told 8ak that the competition could cost each bidder an average of $180 million given costs such as each bomb drop in live weapons’ trials could cost up to US$1 million. In addition, most companies would have spent many hundreds of millions more to adapt their offering for the competition, for example developing the AESA radars.

Already there are reports that some competitors have failed to meet requirements in the early stages of the competition. On Mar 26, Shiv Aroor reported that four contenders failed their high altitude tests in Leh. This has not been since confirmed. Certainly, no contender has given signs of withdrawing from the competition.

For all its drawbacks, the competition is transparent. If any vendor is kicked out, India will have to give explicit reasons for which part of the tests it failed. So even if the IAF did not want a particular aircraft, if all the tick boxes were checked, no company can be eliminated at this stage even if they have no chance of eventually winning.

The threat driving the competition is a two-front war with Pakistan and China. With both states having nuclear weapons a deep-penetration strike is virtually ruled-out as per Brig Kanwal of CLAWS (Centre for Land Warfare Studies) since it would risk over-flying an enemy’s secret nuclear installations. He further says that there is an 80 percent to 90 percent probability that the next war will break out in the mountains and at least a 60 percent probability that the next war will remain limited to the mountains. In this scenario, the requirement of extended range is minimal.

With advances in technology, the fighter itself is losing importance and fast becoming a carrier for equipment such as AESA radars, sophisticated missiles and electronic warfare equipment. With miniaturization similar capabilities can be built in to smaller, lighter planes.

At the top-end, India has already made a choice, the Sukhois for which no tender is required. With delays in the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas project, buying another top-end fighter would mean that the IAF would be too top-heavy. Facing the prospect of a two-front war, large coverage area and the dwindling fleet (32 squadrons of 12 to 18 fighters versus a minimum of 39.5 sanctioned by the government) it is clear that the IAF needs a high number of planes to cover more areas and to deliver more sorties.

Given the above it looks as if a cheaper fighter will best suit India’s limited budget. This bends the odds in favor of single-engine competitors or the Russians, who are expected to offer the MiG-35 at a cheap price.

Things to note. This is the first IAF tender where life cycle costs will be considered, but MoD officials complain that this may not be possible for some of the players whose aircraft have very short service histories. With limited skills to evaluate such technically complex calculations, MoD may put a higher weight back to the initial price though this may just be a negotiating tactic.

It is common in Indian procurement programs for the services role to be limited to conducting tests. For the most part, the Ministry of Defense makes the decision. The bigger the deal, the more likely it is that Parliament and the government will weigh in. One source told 8ak that it would be best for the IAF to tell MoD which fighters they do not want and then let the government make a political decision.

Nobody can read the mind of the Indian government when it comes to politics. But here is our analysis.

The continuing strength of the Russian-India relationship has repeatedly surprised everyone. In a pure political face-off it is unlikely that any country would be able to outmaneuver Russia. If the past is Russian and the future (limited joint-development of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) is Russian, then from a training, spares, infrastructure and familiarity perspective it makes sense to stay with the Russians.

The U.S. often has the best technologies but arms export restrictions can counterbalance the technology advantages. In a war with either Pakistan or China India cannot risk a situation where the U.S. might withhold support of spares or otherwise try to influence India’s behavior. However, the lure of U.S. backing India for a UN Security Council seat is quite lucrative and in a July 2010 report by senior Pentagon official Michele Flournoy made it clear that the U.S. is putting a lot of strategic value on the fighter aircraft deal and has made it clear that they would like to see a U.S. choice. This was backed by an earlier US Navy statement putting its support behind the Super Hornet for India.

France has recently, virtually given up on sales to Pakistan and thereby made a strong commitment to India that will not go unnoticed. While they are a more reliable defense partner than the US, they are prone to mind-numbing price increases as witnessed in the Scorpene, Mirage upgrade and more recent Turbomeca/HAL deals. EADS has pointed out that it is actually supported by a consortium of four countries plus France but Indian analysts believe that India would have little influence over a consortium and hence their political value is diminished.

The key drawback with the Gripen is that Sweden is seen as the least politically influential country. But there is a catch! What is and should be most important to India, possibly even more than international politics is to build indigenous capabilities. Saab’s Asia Pacific head Jan Widerstrom has pointed out that for a large US military supplier $10 billion spread out over decades is not a very big contract. But for Saab, with Euro 3 billion in annual sales, this would shift the company’s interests to India. This is supported by Par Rohmann, the head of the technology transfer programs, who says Saab would co-develop critical technologies with India. But the Gripen uses a U.S. engine and many other components, which could allow the U.S. to play spoilsport.

Corruption continues to be a huge problem in military deals here. Despite both Defense Minister A.K. Antony and the Prime Minister having squeaky clean images, but corruption in India has reached very serious levels.

It is 8ak’s expectation that the final selection will be purely politics and will not be based on cost. Russia may have been eased out with the Sukhoi deal and US is in danger that its restrictive policies may become unpalatable in India (transport planes restrictions are different from fighters). Eurofighter and Rafale are great platforms and if cost was not an issue, then these would win. But budget and numbers are an issue so, if Saab pushes hard enough, you never know. And that is the current prediction 'you never know...'

8ak - Indian Defence News

A very good article....and it can also helps us to find the intensions of IAF and DM requirement.......

Lets summarize the article to find expected winner.

1) Four contenders failed their high altitude tests in Leh. IAF trust may have loseed here on those 4.
2) Some contendors are still in manufacturing of AESA radar like Rafeal, Eurofighter.
3) According to DM, cheaper fighter will best suit India’s limited budget. Looks he is saying abt single engine AC's which are F-16 and Gripen.
4) According to DM, India cannot risk a situation where the U.S. might withhold support of spares....so no chance of F-16 n F-18.
5) Gripen uses a U.S. engine and many other components, which could allow the U.S. to play spoilsport.....so Gripen is also out.
6) DM says "Russia may have been eased out with the Sukhoi deal and US is in danger that its restrictive policies may become unpalatable in India"....so Russia is also out.

After taking all the points I guess the expected winners could be Eurofighter or Rafale, coz India will not put the cost on priority.
 
A very good article....and it can also helps us to find the intensions of IAF and DM requirement.......

Lets summarize the article to find expected winner.

1) Four contenders failed their high altitude tests in Leh. IAF trust may have loseed here on those 4.
2) Some contendors are still in manufacturing of AESA radar like Rafeal, Eurofighter.
3) According to DM, cheaper fighter will best suit India’s limited budget. Looks he is saying abt single engine AC's which are F-16 and Gripen.
4) According to DM, India cannot risk a situation where the U.S. might withhold support of spares....so no chance of F-16 n F-18.
5) Gripen uses a U.S. engine and many other components, which could allow the U.S. to play spoilsport.....so Gripen is also out.
6) DM says "Russia may have been eased out with the Sukhoi deal and US is in danger that its restrictive policies may become unpalatable in India"....so Russia is also out.

After taking all the points I guess the expected winners could be Eurofighter or Rafale, coz India will not put the cost on priority.


Actually you cant call it as a failure at Leh. All the contenders were able to lift off with some minor modifications on the plane (on field)...so to call it as a total failure is not right.

Also Rafale has a fully functioning Aesa radar. Only Gripen,EF and may be Mig 35 doesnt have aesa radar--although mig does have a so called sample aesa radar.
 
Actually you cant call it as a failure at Leh. All the contenders were able to lift off with some minor modifications on the plane (on field)...so to call it as a total failure is not right.

Also Rafale has a fully functioning Aesa radar. Only Gripen,EF and may be Mig 35 doesnt have aesa radar--although mig does have a so called sample aesa radar.

Thanxs for few corrections
 

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