Firing at a Gurudwara in US, several people shot

[KingMamba]

Yes, but the easy availability of guns sure help. I remember the Columbine massacre in '99 - the kids walked into a K-Mart and bought the bullets with which they mowed down their schoolmates. I don't have a problem with hate groups exercising their right to freedom of thought and expression - I don't like them but everyone is entitled to their views - however warped they might be. It is the freaking gun culture which is a problem.

Let me tell you something about that right there. Most people who want to commit a crime here in the US obtain the gun in an illegal way through the black market, or a loophole like gun shows. Trying to remove the 2nd amendment that grants ordinary citizens the right to purchase guns to protect themselves will only make them more vulnerable to the crazies who go around the law.

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes we are my uncle has a gun. Where do you see this? All states have different laws legislating gun ownership but no state can ban them outright or they are violating the constitution.

In NYC you need a valid reason to own a gun like being in the law enforcement or owning a store (i believe) otherwise you are subjected to extensive search and regulations.

You can't even carry a simple folding pocket knife, not even a pepper spray, my friends pepper spray was confiscated from him by the cops.

 

[KRAIT]

No they aren't different at all, a gun is just an inanimate object just like a bottle of liquor or a car is.

Not different ? Sir, what are the basic utilities of a gun, alcohol and a car ?

Gun: For self protection or aggression, if used , involves injuries and death. For few its a hobby. A object which is based on fear of death.

Alcohol : Just a drink which if taken in excessive may be fatal.

Car: For transportation and if driven wrong, can cause accidents and death.

You see the prime objectives and rationale behind owning these things.

These guns are part of US society. You are talking about NYC. What about Texas or other states ? Thousands of homicides every year all over US. You can't take a single city to cast a strategy for 50 states.

With guns, come the natural behavior of hunting or enjoying, and people who has some idiotic agenda and reasons, use it.

Look at all spree killers in history of US. According to their time, laws were strict too, but doesn't the crime rate increased. More strict you make a society, more susceptible you make it to black market products which you can't have any record.

 

[RKhan]

beg to disagree my dearest

its a natural defence mechanism... all Muslims are made to feel guilty for terrorist acts of AQ and its clones and we always take a sign of relief when the narrative suddenly changes to "a lone confused" gunman be it America or Norway. but if its some Muslim then his roots are traced back to Gen Kyani and ISI and then the rants start on Quran, Islam and Muhammad PBUH.

True, I think the media and current events have put the Muslim community on edge and has made them more defensive

 

[KingMamba]

Then you should follow up on current events related to American politics and how they are slowly and steadily ingraining into the minds of the younger generations to be anti-2nd amendment as well as passing bills that are making gun ownership even more difficult.

Agreed whole heartily. They being the liberals in this case though as the far right republicans would never advocate something like this. It is not even about lowering gun crimes because like I said most guns used in crimes are obtained illegally anyway. This is more about controlling the population by removing their firepower. When the founding fathers of this country ratified the second amendment they did it not only so citizens protect themselves from criminals but also from the government if/when they start to infringe upon their rights.

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

-James Madison 4th President of the USA
(Federalist No. 51)

 

[Desert Fox]

Not different ? Sir, what are the basic utilities of a gun, alcohol and a car ?

Gun: For self protection or aggression which involves injuries and death. For few its a hobby. A object which is based on fear of death.

Alcohol : Just a drink which if taken in excessive may be fatal.

Car: For transportation and if driven wrong, can cause accidents and death.

You see the prime objectives of these things.

What is a gun without a human? Does the gun load itself with ammunition and start shooting on its own?

What is a car without a human? Do cars magically start running on their own and kill innocent by standers or ram into on coming traffic?

Does a bottle of liquor magically force alcohol down a alcoholics throat all on its own?

It all involves human activity, otherwise all three are just inanimate objects. Their purpose might be different, but all three are inanimate objects which can be used for good and bad.

In the proper hands a gun is as harmless as a feather, the same with car, yet more people die from car accidents due to carelessness and drunk driving.

In Switzerland, where it is mandatory for every military age male to own a gun and keep one in the house, the crime rate is very low, in fact its close to none. Compare that to New York City, and this is just a City, where legal gun ownership is next to impossible, the crime rate is through the roof.

 

[KingMamba]

In NYC you need a valid reason to own a gun like being in the law enforcement or owning a store (i believe) otherwise you are subjected to extensive search and regulations.

You can't even carry a simple folding pocket knife, not even a pepper spray, my friends pepper spray was confiscated from him by the cops.

You should edit your comment then, yes their are restrictions like I said but any normal citizen can own a gun as long as they are willing to follow through with those restrictions.

 

[ephone]

What the hell is going on??? Sikh people is not the radar of anyone for quite some time. How could they become the target of violence???

 

[KingMamba]

Not different ? Sir, what are the basic utilities of a gun, alcohol and a car ?

Gun: For self protection or aggression, if used , involves injuries and death. For few its a hobby. A object which is based on fear of death.

Alcohol : Just a drink which if taken in excessive may be fatal.

Car: For transportation and if driven wrong, can cause accidents and death.

You see the prime objectives and rationale behind owning these things.

These guns are part of US society. You are talking about NYC. What about Texas or other states ? Thousands of homicides every year all over US. You can't take a single city to cast a strategy for 50 states.

With guns, come the natural behavior of hunting or enjoying, and people who has some idiotic agenda and reasons, use it.

Look at all spree killers in history of US. According to their time, laws were strict too, but doesn't the crime rate increased. More strict you make a society, more susceptible you make it to black market products which you can't have any record.

Krait, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

 

[Desert Fox]

You should edit your comment then, yes their are restrictions like I said but any normal citizen can own a gun as long as they are willing to follow through with those restrictions.

What does your uncle do? Is he in the law enforcement?

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

- The Washington Post

The shooter probably thought they were Muslims.

 

[KingMamba]

What is a gun without a human? Does the gun load itself with ammunition and start shooting on its own?

What is a car without a human? Do cars magically start running on their own and kill innocent by standers or ram into on coming traffic?

Does a bottle of liquor magically force alcohol down a alcoholics throat all on its own?

It all involves human activity, otherwise all three are just inanimate objects. Their purpose might be different, but all three are inanimate objects which can be used for good and bad.

In the proper hands a gun is as harmless as a feather, the same with car, yet more people die from car accidents due to carelessness and drunk driving.

In Switzerland, where it is mandatory for every military age male to own a gun and keep one in the house, the crime rate is very low, in fact its close to none. Compare that to New York City, and this is just a City, where legal gun ownership is next to impossible, the crime rate is through the roof.

There is no point of arguing with him. For him to really know what US is like he would have to come here and experience it himself. It would be funny to see how fast he gets himself a gun living in areas like Compton, California or Brownsville, NYC.

What does your uncle do? Is he in the law enforcement?

Nope accountant, he just went through all the legal channels. It is not hard really it is just that most people would not even get past the background check.

 

[KRAIT]

What is a gun without a human? Does the gun load itself with ammunition and start shooting on its own?

What is a car without a human? Do cars magically start running on their own and kill innocent by standers or ram into on coming traffic?

Does a bottle of liquor magically force alcohol down a alcoholics throat all on its own?

It all involves human activity, otherwise all three are just inanimate objects. Their purpose might be different, but all three are inanimate objects which can be used for good and bad.

In the proper hands a gun is as harmless as a feather, the same with car, yet more people die from car accidents due to carelessness and drunk driving.

In Switzerland, where it is mandatory for every military age male to own a gun and keep one in the house, the crime rate is very low, in fact its close to none. Compare that to New York City, and this is just a City, where legal gun ownership is next to impossible, the crime rate is through the roof.

Sir now you are bringing Man behind the Machine. We all know that. All I pointed out is, if you have a gun and you are too much angry at that person, or your child or your life is in danger, what would you do ?

Normal citizen can't have their hands on guns for protection while the criminals can get it from anywhere. What do you think people will want, its simple matter of survival. They don't believe in Police too much and they don't want to take chances.

I agree the gun control law will definitely have effect just like you mentioned the other country. But you do forget the social structure , and threat perception in US and other countries.

You can't compare two countries just like we don't fire AK-47 while other people do during marriages. Still more number of people are killed in India. Here is another instance which support your view.

Point is no matter what you have, crimes will happen. But when it comes to choice, a person will rather have a gun in hand and feel secure than doubtful of security forces to protect them.

You are in US but can you present entire picture of US with your experience in NYC ?

Generalization is not that easy, demographics matters.

 

[RKhan]

Krait, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

And my reply to that would be people with guns kill people.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

CNN news reporter is an asshole. He kept on saying they are not "Muslims."