Finland to speed up mobilisation time

[Zarvan]

Finland is planning to increase the speed in which it can mobilise its reservists Source: Finnish Defence Forces
Key Points

• Finland is planning to increase the speed in which it can mobilise its reservists
• Currently reservists must receive a minimum of three months' notice, which is not considered fast enough in the current threat environment in the Baltic

Finland's defence minister Jussi Niinistö intends to introduce new legislation within months to speed up the mobilisation of reservists.

Speaking at a Reservist National Defence Course on 25 January, Niinistö announced that he wants to see a faster, simpler call-up process to muster the nation's reserve forces. Under current legislation, reservists must receive three months' notice of an order to attend military activities.

Outlining proposed changes to the Conscription Act, Niinistö said, "In light of today's threats this time seems very long. Current regulations were laid down when threats developed slowly and defence forces had months to prepare.

"The toolbox must contain capabilities that will give us faster call-up when needed in order to enhance readiness and flexibility," he said.

"The Ukraine crisis and seizure of Crimea is an example of a rapidly developing crisis that is difficult to anticipate and for which Finnish reservists' three-month call-up would be far too long," Niinistö concluded.

A review of current regulations will be held with the aim of abolishing time constraints on call-up orders, with the proposed new reserve legislation presented to parliament in the coming months.

Importantly, instead of a presidential decree and invoking the State of Defence Act, it is proposed that the armed forces will decide independently, without visible political decision-making.

Raising readiness will not necessarily be detected immediately by other countries, because the process will be low-profile, rapid, and in advance of full mobilisation.

The intended effect, Niinistö said, is that should for example the Baltic Sea security situation intensify, reserve forces could be brought forward to provide greater defence on the southern Finnish coast or the Åland Islands.

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http://www.janes.com/article/57571/finland-to-speed-up-mobilisation-time

 

[Tshering22]

Finland was so much better remaining neutral.

Joining NATO was its biggest mistake.

 

[Fenrir]

Finland was so much better remaining neutral.

Joining NATO was its biggest mistake.

NATO:

 

[Tshering22]

NATO:

Okay let me put it more realistically:

Band together with NATO gang 'versus Russia' rather than maintain a Switzerland-like neutrality.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Finland was not a member of an alliance in 1939, but was still attacked by the Soviet Union.
Being neutral meant or means nothing to leaders like Stalin, Hitler and Putin.

They got a little help from Sweden, thats it.
Rest of the world was busy rearming for the coming war.

Finland would be much better off joining NATO.

Anyone think that the Russians would limit the Northern theatre to the small border with Norway?

 

[Kal Muah]

Okay let me put it more realistically:

Band together with NATO gang 'versus Russia' rather than maintain a Switzerland-like neutrality.

Now imagine if China, Russia, India comes together against Nato. Man that would be one hell of a war.

 

[Tshering22]

Now imagine if China, Russia, India comes together against Nato. Man that would be one hell of a war.

We won't.

Not now, not ever. Communist world's wars and Capitalist world's wars are their own.

NATO knows this and Russia+China also knows this.

 

[Penguin]

Finland was not a member of an alliance in 1939, but was still attacked by the Soviet Union.
Being neutral meant or means nothing to leaders like Stalin, Hitler and Putin.

They got a little help from Sweden, thats it.
Rest of the world was busy rearming for the coming war.

Finland would be much better off joining NATO.

Anyone think that the Russians would limit the Northern theatre to the small border with Norway?

Fokker D-21 fighter aircraft from the Netherlands.(97 aircraft, in service 1937 through 1948)

Fokker C.X dive bomber from the Netherlands. (39 aircraft, in service 1936 -1958)

Foller C.V. light reconnaissance and bomber plane (19 aircraft, in service 1927-1945)

Okay let me put it more realistically:

Band together with NATO gang 'versus Russia' rather than maintain a Switzerland-like neutrality.

Like Austria and Sweden, Finland is a EU member since 1995, it is not a NATO member. All are internationally recognized as neutral countries. Nonetheless:

The neutrality of some countries now in the European Union (Austria, Finland, Ireland, Malta and Sweden) is under dispute, especially as the EU now operates a Common Foreign and Security Policy. Later, the 'solidarity clause' in the Lisbon Treaty was deemed sufficient to replace the Western European Union (WEU) military alliance's mutual defence clause (where an attack upon one state is deemed an attack on all, resulting in military support from other members). As a result, the WEU was closed down with its mutual defence role having been absorbed by the European Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_neutrality_(international_relations)#List_of_neutral_states
I would think that applies to Sweden as well....

As for Swiss neutrality, do consider that Switzerland has chosen predominantly western (i.e. NATO or neutral) armaments to complement its domestically produced systems. Much in the same way that the the other three countries I mentioned have.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Fokker D-21 fighter aircraft from the Netherlands.(97 aircraft, in service 1937 through 1948)

Fokker C.X dive bomber from the Netherlands. (39 aircraft, in service 1936 -1958)

Foller C.V. light reconnaissance and bomber plane (19 aircraft, in service 1927-1945)

Like Austria and Sweden, Finland is a EU member since 1995, it is not a NATO member. All are internationally recognized as neutral countries. Nonetheless:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_neutrality_(international_relations)#List_of_neutral_states
I would think that applies to Sweden as well....

As for Swiss neutrality, do consider that Switzerland has chosen predominantly western (i.e. NATO or neutral) armaments to complement its domestically produced systems. Much in the same way that the the other three countries I mentioned have.

Fokker D-21 fighter aircraft from the Netherlands.(97 aircraft, in service 1937 through 1948)

Fokker C.X dive bomber from the Netherlands. (39 aircraft, in service 1936 -1958)

Foller C.V. light reconnaissance and bomber plane (19 aircraft, in service 1927-1945)

Like Austria and Sweden, Finland is a EU member since 1995, it is not a NATO member. All are internationally recognized as neutral countries. Nonetheless:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_neutrality_(international_relations)#List_of_neutral_states
I would think that applies to Sweden as well....

As for Swiss neutrality, do consider that Switzerland has chosen predominantly western (i.e. NATO or neutral) armaments to complement its domestically produced systems. Much in the same way that the the other three countries I mentioned have.

Sweden is not a neutral country, neither is Finland.
Swedens traditional policy has been to not be a member of an alliance,
with the intention of beeing neutral in case of a conflict.
Lately, Sweden has declared (unilaterally) that it will support neighbours being attacked.
This includes Nordic and Baltic countries at least.
It is unclear what would happen if lets say Poland was attacked.

One of the few really neutral countries is Switzerland.
Most people know they are neutral, but few people know WHY.
It was not their own decision!

Basically Europe was fed up with the hordes of Swiss mercenaries,
and at the Vienna congress after the Napoleonic Wars, the major powers
decided that they could do without the Swiss in future European Wars,
and told them that they would not be invited to any more happenings...

As for the Winter War, about 12,000 volunteers eventually made it to Finland,
two thirds from Sweden.
The Swedish Army donated about one third of its equipment to Finland.
Norway also made some contributions but not on that scale.
A lot of other promises were made, but never materialized,
partly because it arrived late, or were stopped by other countries, like Germany.
The Fokkers in Your post were obviously purchased before the war.

Foreign support of Finland in the Winter War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Penguin]

The Fokkers in Your post were obviously purchased before the war.

Foreign support of Finland in the Winter War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OBviously not

The Fokker D.XXI performed better and for much longer in the Finnish Air Force, which had acquired a number of licence-built fighters prior to the start of the Winter War. Against the aircraft of the Soviet Air Force, the Fokker was more evenly matched, and its rugged design with a radial engine and fixed undercarriage made it very suitable for Finnish conditions. Later in the war, as newer models of Soviet fighters appeared, the Fokker D.XXI was underpowered and too lightly armed (with only four 7.92 mm/.312 in machine guns) to compete. Plans to arm the Fokkers with 20 mm cannons were dropped and only one fighter was armed as such (two 20 mm cannons and two 7.92 mm/.312 in machine guns). Another fighter was equipped with retractable landing gear, but due to less than anticipated performance improvement, wasn't continued in the series. During the Continuation War (1941–44) the Finnish State Aircraft Factory (Valtion Lentokonetehdas, VL) also built some 50 D.XXIs with the Swedish-built Pratt & Whitney R-1535 Twin Wasp Junior as the Bristol Mercury was in short supply. These can be identified by their longer cockpit glazing, smooth cowl, and large ventral air intake under the cowl. The fixed undercarriage lent itself to both unimproved runways and conversion to skis for winter use, both of which were advantages in the Finnish theater.
...
Finnish Air Force received seven aircraft and built 93 on license

Fokker D.XXI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do recall the Netherlands being occupied by Germany in 1940? That obviously ended any possibility of supporting Finland against Russia. But then again, Finland sided with German against Russia, so why would the Netherlands continue supporting?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

OBviously not

Fokker D.XXI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do recall the Netherlands being occupied by Germany in 1940? That obviously ended any possibility of supporting Finland against Russia. But then again, Finland sided with German against Russia, so why would the Netherlands continue supporting?

By "the war", I mean the "Winter War" which ended in 1940, and not the "Continuation War",
which started in 1941.
So the discussion is what support was given between autumn 1939 and spring 1940.

I doubt there were many Fokkers delivered during that short time period.

 

[Penguin]

By "the war", I mean the "Winter War" which ended in 1940, and not the "Continuation War",
which started in 1941.
So the discussion is what support was given between autumn 1939 and spring 1940.

I doubt there were many Fokkers delivered during that short time period.

The Fokker D.XXI performed better and for much longer in the Finnish Air Force, which had acquired a number of licence-built fighters prior to the start of the Winter War. Against the aircraft of the Soviet Air Force, the Fokker was more evenly matched, and its rugged design with a radial engine and fixed undercarriage made it very suitable for Finnish conditions. Later in the war, as newer models of Soviet fighters appeared, the Fokker D.XXI was underpowered and too lightly armed (with only four 7.92 mm/.312 in machine guns) to compete.

Fokker D.XXI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the beginning of the Winter War, the Finnish Air Force was equipped with only 17 bombers and 31 fighters. There were also 54 liaison aircraft but 20 of these were only used for messengers. The most modern aircraft in the Finnish arsenal were the British-designed Bristol Blenheim bombers that had been license-built in Finland. The primary fighter aircraft was the Fokker D.XXI, a cheap but maneuverable design with fabric-covered fuselage and fixed landing gear.

As the war progressed, the Finns tried desperately to purchase aircraft wherever there were any to be found. This policy resulted in a very diverse aircraft inventory, which was to cause some major logistical problems until the inventory became more standardized. The Finnish Air Force was to consist of numerous American, British, Czechoslovakian, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Soviet, and Swedish designs. Other countries, like South Africa and Denmark, sent aircraft to assist in the Finnish war effort. Many of these purchases and gifts did not arrive until the end of the hostilities, but were to see action later during the Continuation and Lapland wars.

Finnish Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During the Winter War, all Fokker D.XXIs - Finland's only modern fighter - were concentrated into the No. 24 Sqn, making it the only frontline fighter force.
...
The squadron was equipped with Dutch Fokker D.XXI fighters in 1937.
...
The unit was still equipped with Fokker D.XXIs when the Soviet Union attacked Finland on November 30, 1939.
...
A cease-fire was signed on March 13. No 24 sqn had started the war with 36 fighters and were left with 22. The unit claimed 120 aircraft downed (of which 100 were bombers). Own losses amounted to 11 aircraft, of who 9 had been lost to the enemy.
...
The squadron was re-equipped with [34] US-made Brewster 239 fighters on April 19, 1940. This aircraft was considered to be the best fighter aircraft of the Finnish Air Force at the time.

No. 24 Squadron (Finland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the beginning of the war, Finland had a very small air force, with only 114 combat airplanes fit for duty. Therefore, Finnish air missions were very limited and fighter aircraft were mainly used to repel Soviet bombers. Old-fashioned and few in numbers, Finnish aircraft could not offer support to the Finnish ground troops. In spite of aircraft losses throughout the war, the Finnish Air Force grew by 50 percent by the end of the war. Most new aircraft shipments arrived during January 1940

At the start of hostilities, the Finnish Air Force had 146 aircraft of all types at its disposal. The primary fighter aircraft were 15 Bristol Bulldog IVs, which had entered service in 1935, and 41 of the more modern Fokker D.XXI. There were also 18 license-built Bristol Blenheim bombers. In 1939, an order had been placed in Italy for 25 Fiat G.50 fighters; two were being assembled in Sweden when the war broke out.

During the war, a number of aircraft were ordered from abroad:

• 30 Gloster Gladiator II biplane fighters from the United Kingdom
• 12 Bristol Blenheim IV bombers from the United Kingdom
• 30 Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 fighters from France
• 44 Brewster 239 fighters from the United States
• 22 Gloster Gauntlet trainers from the United Kingdom
• 10 Fiat G.50 fighters from Italy

.

Aerial warfare in the Winter War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finnish Air Force received seven aircraft and built 93 on license. That makes a total of 100 D-XXI. Of which 36 were with no. 24 squadron at the start of the winter war (and 5 elsewhere, given a total of 41 at the start of the winter war). So, there were 52 built in Finland after the start of the winter war. Apparently during the Continuation war, as I indicated.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Fokker D.XXI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Finnish Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


No. 24 Squadron (Finland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Aerial warfare in the Winter War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finnish Air Force received seven aircraft and built 93 on license. That makes a total of 100 D-XXI. Of which 36 were with no. 24 squadron at the start of the winter war (and 5 elsewhere, given a total of 41 at the start of the winter war). So, there were 52 built in Finland after the start of the winter war. Apparently during the Continuation war, as I indicated.

Exactly, it was NOT delivered during the Winter War.

The whole point of the discussion was to show that in time of crisis, they got very little help from outside.

If they have set up license production of D-XXI before the war,
the fact that they build more during the war,
really does not mean that they are getting help from the outside
as a reponse to the Soviet attack.

A lot of promises were made, but very little materialized.

 

[Penguin]

Exactly, it was NOT delivered during the Winter War.

The whole point of the discussion was to show that in time of crisis, they got very little help from outside.

If they have set up license production of D-XXI before the war,
the fact that they build more during the war,
really does not mean that they are getting help from the outside
as a reponse to the Soviet attack.

A lot of promises were made, but very little materialized.

It had been delivered and license buildling started prior to the winter war. And was Finlands prime fighter when that war started. Heck, the Fins got the D-21 even before the Dutch themselves got it. Other countries were primarily busy arming themselves. I think that qualifies as 'help from outside'.

Aircraft that entered Finnish service in 1939 or 1940 are:

Fighters

Jaktfalken II Sweden 3 units
Gloster Gladiator Mk. II Great Britain (via Sweden) total 30 units
Gloster Gauntlet Mk. II Great Britain (via Sweden) total 24 units
Hawker Hurricane Mk. I Great Britain total 12 units
Brewster Model 239 "Buffalo" USA (via Sweden) total 44 units
Fiat G.50 Freccia Italy total 40 units
Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 France total 77 units (pre May 1940)
Morane-Saulnier M.S.410 France total 19 units (via Germany, so after May 1940)
Caudron-Renault C.R. 714 Cyclone France (via Germany, so after may 1940) total 6 units
Polikarpov I-15bis Soviet Union total 5 units Polikarpov I-16/Rata Soviet Union total 6 units Polikarpov I-153 (I-15ter) Soviet Union (via Germany)

BOmbers
Douglas DC-2 USA (Sweden) 1 unit
Ilyushin DB-3M Soviet Union (Germany)11 units
Tupolev SB Soviet Union 1 unit
Tupolev SB-bis Soviet Union 6 units

Maritime
Junkers F 13fe Germany 2 units
Junkers F 13kä Germany (Sweden) 1 unit
Recce
Gloster Gladiator Mk. II Great Britain (Sweden) 30 (dual role)
Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 France 77 (dual role)
Morane-Saulnier M.S. 410 France (Germany) 10 (dual role)
Koolhoven F.K.52 The Netherlands (Sweden) 2
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I Great Britain 12 (dual role)

etc
List of military aircraft of Finland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

It had been delivered and license buildling started prior to the winter war. And was Finlands prime fighter when that war started. Heck, the Fins got the D-21 even before the Dutch themselves got it. Other countries were primarily busy arming themselves. I think that qualifies as 'help from outside'.

Aircraft that entered Finnish service in 1939 or 1940 are:

Fighters

Jaktfalken II Sweden 3 units
Gloster Gladiator Mk. II Great Britain (via Sweden) total 30 units
Gloster Gauntlet Mk. II Great Britain (via Sweden) total 24 units
Hawker Hurricane Mk. I Great Britain total 12 units
Brewster Model 239 "Buffalo" USA (via Sweden) total 44 units
Fiat G.50 Freccia Italy total 40 units

Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 France total 77 units (pre May 1940)
Morane-Saulnier M.S.410 France total 19 units (via Germany, so after May 1940)
Caudron-Renault C.R. 714 Cyclone France (via Germany, so after may 1940) total 6 units
Polikarpov I-15bis Soviet Union total 5 units
Polikarpov I-16/Rata Soviet Union total 6 units
Polikarpov I-153 (I-15ter) Soviet Union (via Germany)

BOmbers
Douglas DC-2 USA (Sweden) 1 unit
Ilyushin DB-3M Soviet Union (Germany)11 units
Tupolev SB Soviet Union 1 unit
Tupolev SB-bis Soviet Union 6 units

Maritime
Junkers F 13fe Germany 2 units
Junkers F 13kä Germany (Sweden) 1 unit
Recce
Gloster Gladiator Mk. II Great Britain (Sweden) 30 (dual role)
Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 France 77 (dual role)
Morane-Saulnier M.S. 410 France (Germany) 10 (dual role)
Koolhoven F.K.52 The Netherlands (Sweden) 2
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I Great Britain 12 (dual role)

etc
List of military aircraft of Finland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From my link above:

-----
The British government sold the Finnish air force 30 Bristol Blenheim bombers. U.S.-made Brewster B239's, came too late to participate in combat missions, and the same applied to ten Hawker Hurricane I fighters. The British government also provided quantities of small arms and ammunition, including a large number of obsolete Boys anti-tank rifles in 1939 and 1940.

France also sent aircraft, including the Morane Saulnier M.S.406 fighter. In 1940, it was decided to send a new fighter, the Caudron–Renault C.714. Six C.714s previously marked for shipment to the Polish Air Force were placed in containers and diverted to Le Havre harbour for shipment to Finland. On 12 March 1940, the first six aircraft were already on their way to Finland when news of the armistice between Finland and the Soviet Union was received. At the time deliveries were halted, ten aircraft were in containers at Le Havre waiting to be lifted to the ships and three more were on their way from Paris. The French Army also supplied small arms and ammunition, mostly of obsolete design.
---
The Italian G.50s were stopped by Germany, and crashed Soviet aircrafts recovered by the Finns
REALLY does not count, and I do not count stuff sold to the Finns years before the Winter War
started, since the question is

- "How did the world react to the Soviet agression" ?