Fighting hopelessness: Panama Case, JIT and the confusions

[Realistic Change]

Another defeat for the corrupt tola,
The attempt to derail and pressurize JIT working have been thwarted by SC.
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Good omen!

WHAT is this about? :O

Will discuss after Ramzan

 

[Arsalan]

Will discuss after Ramzan

Hahaha
Chlo ok

 

[Arsalan]

Will discuss after Ramzan

So you were saying?

 

[Arsalan]

Have been observing a new trend, a mass manipulation tactic being employed by PMLN since a few days now. The paid media goons are trying to malign Imran by bashing both Imran and Nawaz together. Now that Nawaz with his entire family have been caught with their pants down, there seem no way to make people believe that they are innocent. The next best thing is to make others look as guilty as NS and his pack of thugs!!

There have been articles in newspapers like dawn (known mouth piece for PMLN) and NEWS where the JIT and SC have been bashed and the whole probing into the Panama case is being called as a staged drams. A noora kushit between Imran and Nawaz just so that these two can be mentioned In the same sentence and then accused of fooling the nation, now that the WORLD knows that Nawaz have bene doing exactly that for decades. Members who are know PMLN supporters, some even to an extent where people doubt them to be paid workers have been opening threads on similar lines. With nothing to say in defense, this is the best thing PMLN can think of to hide their years long corruption, to drag others with them to disgrace. Kud tu dobay hein sanam tum ko bhe lay doobain gy!!
What we as a Pakistani need to do is spread the message across. Let more and more people know about this, spread the awareness about the devilish plans of these traitors of the nation. Do not let them fool our people once again This is the least we should do being a Pakistani, this is OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

@notorious_eagle @HRK @Zibago @django @The Sandman

 

[The Sandman]

Have been observing a new trend, a mass manipulation tactic being employed by PMLN since a few days now. The paid media goons are trying to malign Imran by bashing both Imran and Nawaz together. Now that Nawaz with his entire family have been caught with their pants down, there seem no way to make people believe that they are innocent. The next best thing is to make others look as guilty as NS and his pack of thugs!!

There have been articles in newspapers like dawn (known mouth piece for PMLN) and NEWS where the JIT and SC have been bashed and the whole probing into the Panama case is being called as a staged drams. A noora kushit between Imran and Nawaz just so that these two can be mentioned In the same sentence and then accused of fooling the nation, now that the WORLD knows that Nawaz have bene doing exactly that for decades. Members who are know PMLN supporters, some even to an extent where people doubt them to be paid workers have been opening threads on similar lines. With nothing to say in defense, this is the best thing PMLN can think of to hide their years long corruption, to drag others with them to disgrace. Kud tu dobay hein sanam tum ko bhe lay doobain gy!!
What we as a Pakistani need to do is spread the message across. Let more and more people know about this, spread the awareness about the devilish plans of these traitors of the nation. Do not let them fool our people once again This is the least we should do being a Pakistani, this is OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

@notorious_eagle @HRK @Zibago @django @The Sandman

I have hopes from JIT and even after JIT he's still not caught than i have hope from my fellow country men (my last hope) that after seeing all this they will vote wisely in 2018 and if even than corrupt mafia wins again than i will really have no sympathy with Pakistani awaam and will have no hope of Pakistan becoming a strong powerful successful nation. In short if our people haven't learned anything from this to bhaar mein jao phr.

 

[Shane]

I have hopes from JIT and even after JIT he's still not caught than i have hope from my fellow country men (my last hope) that after seeing all this they will vote wisely in 2018 and if even than corrupt mafia wins again than i will really have no sympathy with Pakistani awaam and will have no hope of Pakistan becoming a strong powerful successful nation. In short if our people haven't learned anything from this to bhaar mein jao phr.

I thought the same as you even in 2013 that if people still voted for PMLN then bhaar mein jao...but here we are and I learned that people like us never can stop caring about our nation, even if it continues to stab itself by voting for those businessmen and landlords who are basically oppressors, looters and thugs.

This time around, some of the same people continue to parashoot into PTI. IK is demanding a very colossal leap of faith from the voters regarding these thugs coming on board PTI.

I am prepared to take this leap of faith because I see no one better than IK with Asad Omer and the likes at his side. Lets hope our voting masses are able to make the same judgement come next elections, in sha Allah.

What worries me deeply is the clear and present threat to IK, and not just from the internal status quo but beyond our borders.

Have been observing a new trend, a mass manipulation tactic being employed by PMLN since a few days now. The paid media goons are trying to malign Imran by bashing both Imran and Nawaz together. Now that Nawaz with his entire family have been caught with their pants down, there seem no way to make people believe that they are innocent. The next best thing is to make others look as guilty as NS and his pack of thugs!!

There have been articles in newspapers like dawn (known mouth piece for PMLN) and NEWS where the JIT and SC have been bashed and the whole probing into the Panama case is being called as a staged drams. A noora kushit between Imran and Nawaz just so that these two can be mentioned In the same sentence and then accused of fooling the nation, now that the WORLD knows that Nawaz have bene doing exactly that for decades. Members who are know PMLN supporters, some even to an extent where people doubt them to be paid workers have been opening threads on similar lines. With nothing to say in defense, this is the best thing PMLN can think of to hide their years long corruption, to drag others with them to disgrace. Kud tu dobay hein sanam tum ko bhe lay doobain gy!!
What we as a Pakistani need to do is spread the message across. Let more and more people know about this, spread the awareness about the devilish plans of these traitors of the nation. Do not let them fool our people once again This is the least we should do being a Pakistani, this is OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

@notorious_eagle @HRK @Zibago @django @The Sandman

 

[Arsalan]

I have hopes from JIT and even after JIT he's still not caught than i have hope from my fellow country men (my last hope) that after seeing all this they will vote wisely in 2018 and if even than corrupt mafia wins again than i will really have no sympathy with Pakistani awaam and will have no hope of Pakistan becoming a strong powerful successful nation. In short if our people haven't learned anything from this to bhaar mein jao phr.

Yaar masla tu yeh haa ka how much our votes will actually matter?
There is still a big question mark on that. Imran should have focused on that problem as well.

Anyway, i wont give up hope ever but to be honest, i do not see things going on in same way for more than next 12 - 15 years anyway. Either it need to be changed or it will all be lost!! All i can do and am committed to do is to fight for that change or to go down fighting.

 

[Arsalan]

Panama Papers JIT to submit final report before SC today

ISLAMABAD: The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) probing the Panama Papers case will submit its final report to the special bench of Supreme Court (SC) today (July 10) as the term designated by the apex court for the JIT to complete the investigations has come to a close.

The special implementation bench of the SC had formed the JIT to probe Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s alleged offshore wealth and charges of money laundering against the Sharif family.

Earlier on Saturday, Nawaz Sharif held an advisory meeting with federal ministers and law experts to ponder over the course to be taken after the JIT submits its report on the findings of the Panama leaks investigations.

An interview of Kulsoom Nawaz, wife of PM Nawaz, published in British newspaper The Guardian will also be a part of this probe report.

PM Nawaz’s wife gave this interview regarding the ownership of London flats in April 2000.


It has yet to be seen if the Panama Papers case interrogators, who got 60 days to find answers to 13 questions, got satisfactory answers to the questions meant to bring to light, among others, the money trail of London properties owned by members of the Sharif family.

The JIT was constituted on May 5 in light of the court’s April 20 judgment in Panama Papers case. It held its first meeting on May 8.

The six-member JIT comprises its head, FIA’s Wajid Zia, Amer Aziz of the State Bank of Pakistan, SECP Executive Director Communication Bilal Rasool, Irfan Naeem Mangi of National Accountability Bureau, Brigadier (retd) Nauman Saeed of the Inter-Services Intelligence and Brigadier Kamran Khurshid from the Military Intelligence.

During the course of the investigations, those who appeared before the JIT once include Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif, and Maryam Nawaz, the daughter of the prime minister. Meanwhile, Hussain Nawaz, elder son of the prime minister appeared six times while younger son Hassan Nawaz was summoned thrice. Meanwhile, the JIT met PM’s cousin Tariq Shafi for the first time on May 15 and for the second time on July 2.

The team was empowered to summon anyone to investigate the money-laundering charges against the Sharif family. The interrogators will submit today the final report before a three-member special implementation bench of the apex court, which is headed by Justice Ejaz Afzal Khan and comprising Justice Sheikh Azmat Saeed and Justice Ijazul Ahsan.

Over the given 60 days, the investigators collected evidence and documents related to the business dealings of the family, and recorded the statements of witnesses – seven of them members of the Sharif family.

On May 12, the JIT was released funds worth Rs20 million.

https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2017/07/panama-jit-to-submit-final-report-to-sc-today/

 

[Arsalan]

Just to update the thread for future record and reference:

Panama Case
Pakistan vs Corrupt Government
Round 2 - PAKISTAN
Pakistan 2 : Corrupt Government 0

I hope we are all happy and satisfied today? @PakSword @Farah Sohail @Verve ?
Many of us had doubts when JIT was formed and we had valid reasons for that. The history was not on OUR side. However all that have happened in past few weeks and the actions of army, opposition and other institutions (like SC) all have started to make sense now, right? Today it looks like that these thre judges actually did greater service by forming JIT which have exposed many other people and brought to light unknown and unheared stories of Nawaz Sharif's corruption, army playing soft ball so that the victim card, which we all saw PMLN desperately trying to play, in not in game. The things were allowed to take the legal democratic shape and it all looks air tight now!

It is a big day, the JIT have beaten history. I was from day one saying that we should keep faith and hope and that will give strength to this team. However what they did in that report was WAY BEYOND even my expectation. I was not expecting them to be so bold and be so vocal and destroy all the lies NS and Co. was hiding behind. This is a great achievement, we cannot thank them enough for this service. They have taken into account the corrupt institutions, have gone after them, contacted foreign authorities and have gotten evidence from them, have referred to the Prime Minister as Sharif in their report and exposed how they are confident that he was telling lies during his interview with JIT and was hesitant to answer the questions. They have done what we or at least I was not hoping for, it is, as i said, beyond my expectation. May Allah shower his blessings and mercy upon these people.

On a personal note, i am quite confident that this will help restore some faith in institutions, people will realize that all is not lost. I still believe that our trust and faith is what gives these people, these institutions strength and courage (and i hope you understand that too and can help me spread the message)to stand up against the corrupt even if it is the in-power prime minister and his family. So let us all keep faith and keep praying as it is not about you me or any political party. It is about the country, about PAKISTAN. It always have been!!

So people, the round 2 ends, we have the upper hand but the fight is not over. PMLN as we ALL said wont go down without a fight. They have rejected the report, they will use all delaying tactics to drag the matter, challenge it in court, spread rumors about it, create confusion about its authenticity and the character of JIT and what not. So let us just keep on hoping and praying for the final ultimate success in this case AND keep doing whatever little we can to get there. Our job should be to create awareness, to let people know what the report is, translate it into a language and words that are understandable for common man.

I hope Imran do not makes any stupid moves now and that SC gets on with the legal proceedings and conclude the matter in a few weeks time. The longer it is dragged the worst it is for the country. We need to end this so we can start with the rebuilding process now.

@notorious_eagle @Slav Defence @WAJsal @The Sandman @war&peace

 

[The Sandman]

@notorious_eagle @Slav Defence @WAJsal @The Sandman @war&peace

Not gonna lie i lost all the hope on 20 April but have to give you credit arsalan bro you didn't lose hope and kept raising our morales!
MASSIVE RESPECT TO JIT guys they did their job excellently and honestly and so did the judges despite threats and dirt that was thrown on them! this maybe just a drop but we had to start somewhere sharifs are shameless he still isn't gonna resign but i am sure they will lose a large amount of votes in 2018 IA!!!

To IK, SC Judges and JIT members.

 

[Arsalan]

Writing this just to mention a few points:

1. DO NOT expect a decision to come today
2. It will take a few more hearings. This is how justice works.

There have been a general feeling of disappointment on the other thread discussing and keeping tabs on minute by minute updates of the case. The thing is that there are so many posts coming in that thread that it is very difficult to write a detailed response there so doing it here.

About that feeling of disappointment, please understand that this is a HUGE case, one that is going to determine the future of the country. The outcome will decide whether we get on the right track for a corruption free progressive Pakistan or we keep being ruled by a band of thugs and loots! Court will make sure that all legal procedure is followed and all the right boxes are checked. People were disappointed that the court was asking wrong questions, not just tough but wrong as well from the PTI lawyers Naeem Bukhari (NB). What we need to understand that in the court hearing the court will question both sides, they will grill both sides. No matter how clear and transparent the evidence look to us, they cannot just base a decision on the emotions of public but will listen to both sides before finalizing a decision. This is what they were doing when they supposedly grilled PTI lawyer. WE should not and cannot expect them to pamper one side in this case. The JIT report have already been called an “Imran Nama” PMLN, we do not want them to go out and start bashing the highest court of the land as well. We know our people, there are many who will still fall for it.

So what happened today was all part of the process. This is an open shut case now and PMLN have not been able to raise a single valid argument against JIT workings today. I think that the case will be decided in two to three hearings. Expect more bashing of PTI as well and do not lose hope based on that. As far as my limited knowledge on this matter concerns, this is normal court proceedings. Sakhti sa he baat krna the Judge na PTI walon sa, no one should have expected them to pamper PTI.

Furthermore, PMLN will use today proceedings to claim a mini victory, well, let them, these are the same people who were distributing sweets among themselves and celebrating when JIT was formed, we all know what happened 60 days later. Allah khair kray ga InshAllah.

@PakSword @notorious_eagle @Farah Sohail @Moonlight @balixd

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Country is in a LIMBO !!! NOW .......

Prime minister can't explain how him and his songs moved Millions out of Pakistan not mere 10,000 dollar

My father can't move his retirement money out of Pakistan becasue all over airport they have posted you can't more then few thousand dollars and here you have Pakistan's prime minister and his "GOON" running a internatinal mafia from Pakistan's parliment


Do we not have a HONEST MAN that can lead the country forward?

 

[Shane]

Just to update the thread for future record and reference:

Panama Case
Pakistan vs Corrupt Government
Round 2 - PAKISTAN
Pakistan 2 : Corrupt Government 0

I hope we are all happy and satisfied today? @PakSword @Farah Sohail @Verve ?
Many of us had doubts when JIT was formed and we had valid reasons for that. The history was not on OUR side. However all that have happened in past few weeks and the actions of army, opposition and other institutions (like SC) all have started to make sense now, right? Today it looks like that these thre judges actually did greater service by forming JIT which have exposed many other people and brought to light unknown and unheared stories of Nawaz Sharif's corruption, army playing soft ball so that the victim card, which we all saw PMLN desperately trying to play, in not in game. The things were allowed to take the legal democratic shape and it all looks air tight now!

It is a big day, the JIT have beaten history. I was from day one saying that we should keep faith and hope and that will give strength to this team. However what they did in that report was WAY BEYOND even my expectation. I was not expecting them to be so bold and be so vocal and destroy all the lies NS and Co. was hiding behind. This is a great achievement, we cannot thank them enough for this service. They have taken into account the corrupt institutions, have gone after them, contacted foreign authorities and have gotten evidence from them, have referred to the Prime Minister as Sharif in their report and exposed how they are confident that he was telling lies during his interview with JIT and was hesitant to answer the questions. They have done what we or at least I was not hoping for, it is, as i said, beyond my expectation. May Allah shower his blessings and mercy upon these people.

On a personal note, i am quite confident that this will help restore some faith in institutions, people will realize that all is not lost. I still believe that our trust and faith is what gives these people, these institutions strength and courage (and i hope you understand that too and can help me spread the message)to stand up against the corrupt even if it is the in-power prime minister and his family. So let us all keep faith and keep praying as it is not about you me or any political party. It is about the country, about PAKISTAN. It always have been!!

So people, the round 2 ends, we have the upper hand but the fight is not over. PMLN as we ALL said wont go down without a fight. They have rejected the report, they will use all delaying tactics to drag the matter, challenge it in court, spread rumors about it, create confusion about its authenticity and the character of JIT and what not. So let us just keep on hoping and praying for the final ultimate success in this case AND keep doing whatever little we can to get there. Our job should be to create awareness, to let people know what the report is, translate it into a language and words that are understandable for common man.

I hope Imran do not makes any stupid moves now and that SC gets on with the legal proceedings and conclude the matter in a few weeks time. The longer it is dragged the worst it is for the country. We need to end this so we can start with the rebuilding process now.

@notorious_eagle @Slav Defence @WAJsal @The Sandman @war&peace

I agree with you. Have been posting similar thoughts as well.

Posted following in the other threads:

In my opinion, the Judges know what they are doing. Period. Just about the only ones in the whole country right now, as everyone else seems to be at it with a knife without a blade.

Lets not make a mockery of Judges ourselves as we might end up as such. In short, some of the posts shows our short memory in general.

How can the Judges be oblivious of the JIT report? When we take some sense of situation soup for supper we may yet realize the path the Judges are taking.

The Judges knew more than anyone the outcome of the JIT report as they kept getting the timely updates from the JIT and kept telling them that they are on the right track.

The JIT has left the Judges in a bit of uneasy spot by some of their actions and they must address the same according to the law i.e. give time for due deliberations to all "stakeholders" including the JIT to tie a few lose ends too;-) can't help but speculate.

Let us watch and discuss the proceedings the same way we expect others to respect our posts and opinions rather than beunnecessarily harsh at this point in time towards those who are the only ones who know how to handle this according to the law. This is no child's play.

We have enough to discuss with the clowns on all sides being vocal as it is so lets concentrate on the clowns and their legal and political strategies and meanwhile, please refrain from using strong language against the Judges.

I hope we get to celebrate a verdict soon, in sha Allah, if not may Allah forbid, we can have a field day(s) with it in a free for all so hold your horses for now and hope for the best.

 

[Realistic Change]

I hear you bro!

Have seen persons I knew experience these excesses in front of my eyes, have seen Rana Maqbool (IGP) ordering killings (extra judicial) on Shahbaz and Nawaz orders and have seen with my own eyes murder of my friends elder brother Akbar Bhatti whose paper Roznama Pakistan was then sold for pennies to this sum Mujibur Rehman Shami ******* - Hamid Mir was offered the same paper, but he declined graciously saying he can't as you killed Akbar Bhatti just for opposition to you and now this paper has blood of my friend.

These $harifs are most hateble scums to set foot on this earth. I am down - as your post triggered past memories.

There are zillion other excesses that destroyed so many families and Geo says they are not Mafia!

A blast from the past post of June 2017 re Rana Maqbool and his ala-ey kar Abid Boxer...... kahan tak suno gey, kahan tak zaleel o ruswa hogey? naam ke Sharifon

Thora aur.....
(July 29, 2017 post)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pana...-and-discussion.459474/page-1348#post-9717876

And now ..... Abid Boxer - lol

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

With the Panama case verdict, a vast majority of our population are in sense of hopelessness and everywhere you go you see people that are abusing and cursing the supreme court and the system as a whole. No one believe that FBR or FIA or State Bank or the other institutions that are to be part of JIT will deliver something that a strong supreme court failed to do. What they fail to understand is that supreme court could not have penalized the guilty as it was NOT a criminal trial. There was nothing much else the panel could do. This is because of lack of awareness but mostly because people have been deliberately misguided, AGAIN. What else where you think those celebration were about when the panel of supreme court have clearly stated that PM and his family failed to provide evidence and justification of those properties and what they have said is doubtful and needs to be investigated further. Two of the five members even went to the extent to state that it is obvious that they family is guilty and the PM is no longer suitable to hold the office and must be disqualified. There is not a single judge that have confirmed that Nawaz Sharif and his family are innocent and all their properties are made by legal means and the case should be dismissed! NO A SINGLE ONE have stated this. The best thing for the government in this verdict is ambiguity in words in some places but still a clear call of further investigation of sitting prime minister and his family. The worst thing is the disqualification decision by two judges including the head of the panel. (and in fact, these are the only two who have given a decision, the other three have just asked for further probe declaring prime minister neither guilty nor innocent)

The only defense the NS and Co. presented, the Qatri Letter have been thrown in the bin by all five. In light of the other evidence presented or even the lack of it;

2 judges have said that it is over and NS have to be disqualified.
3 have said that they are not sure and want the matters to be investigated further.

Then why the celebration if not to simply misguide the nation. One minister and a key member of PMLN went on to state that the verdict proves that PM is both sadiq and ameen. I am yet to find a single sentence in 500 plus page decision stating that. Sir, the prime minister is not eligible to hold the office as per two judges and the remaining three have doubts on what have been said in the court and want further investigation. Please do not misguide us.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, the ruling elite have remembered that the Qatri letter was never there prime evidence and that there were documents and money trail (that they have promised dozens of time now, in parliament and in supreme court but still fail to produce) as well that the lawyers fail to present. Have you listened to what NS lawyer said yesterday? I think it was enough to prove what actually is happening, still they have made the nation believe that supreme court have betrayed them and that corruption is here to stay forever. The family can sense it but they won’t let you. They are powerful and will go all out but we should not be helping them in accomplishing that. Please do not let the efforts of this one year go down the drain by just giving it up right now. We know what have happened, we should believe in it. Rather than spreading awareness across we our self are getting restless and hopeless, THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN, PLEASE. I will even go all out and say that do it as a personal favor to me while in fact, it is a favor to OUR country. Frankly speaking, what else have we done to turn anything for good except sitting on this online forum and spreading the word across? It will be sad and shameful if we even stop contributing that. We are only a few educated members here on the forum with access to internet, this is a privilege and we of all should have better understanding. Think about the millions who need to be made aware of the reality, by us! Do this as a duty to motherland as the system as it exists today may not last for long. This have to end and we will be honored to be the ones to do that.

I am not saying that JIT is going to work perfectly, not even very confident, but I for one am ALWAYS against speculating things and specially against forming and giving judgements on those speculations. Even when case proceedings were underway I was always asking all the members to pray and hope for the best but at the same time, kept of telling that do not get there hopes too high. That was NOT the time to do guess work. THIS is not the time either. The JIT names will give us some 10-20% idea. Rest we will have another 15-20% when they present their first report. Till then, we should hold our horses and NOT LOSE hope. You have to believe me when I say that this is exactly what the guilty party will want. If they can deprive you of hope for justice, they take out most of your energy to fight for it and almost win the case before it even starts. This is the first, the most important and a time proven formula to enslave people, to make them believe that nothing can be done now. When we got HOPE we were able to defeat the BRITISH and get independence. What else do you think Allama Iqbal contributed but spreading the awareness? May be even Jinnah? A leader that the nation believed in and through him, believed in what seemed impossible. And what drive Jinnah? To me, it was the HOPE and FAITH of a nation that believed in him to deliver. I am not comparing anyone here with Quadi-e-Azam, no one can be, may be NEVER but just stating a fact. Pick up any revolution and you will find the same thing, pick up and oppression and you will read the same happening? The first thing an oppressor does is to kill hope, it is easy picking after that. Do not let that happen.Do not let them force you to choose the best from the worst and be happy and contend with it. This is our country and we want the best of the best of it.

What should be happening right now is nation full of confidence that they are going to stand up to corruption and will root it out. Acceptance of corrupting, while cheering it or crying about it is equally bad in my eyes. We do not want to join that second category. Have faith in yourself, in Allah and even in these institutions and your faith, faith and hope of 200 million population can and will make EVERYONE work properly. Faith is a power and we all know it. What else make you believe in miracles? If the JIT knows that the nation is not expecting anything from them to begin with, they won’t go out on a limb to prove them wrong, the easy job for them will be what is expected from them. Don’t give the corrupt the easy way out, do not pretend or act as if we don't care. This is OUR COUNTRY, WE CARE!! It is our children who will live here, how can we not care?

I have already asked what alternative judgement were any of you expecting or what it should have been? There is no practically possible alternative. We were not thinking of a direct disqualification and a suspension would have been of absolutely no practical value at all since the acting PM from this same team of corrupt would have only carried forward the same agenda. May this could have been even damaging as now if one of the three judges is convinced by JIT and the majority decision then becomes against PM, he won’t be able to cry foul play. He was sitting right there on top of the matters while it all happened. And INSHALLAH it will happen, INSHALLAH!!!

Arsalan Aslam

Your view:
@Horus @HRK @araz @fatman17 @waz @Slav Defence @Verve @Path-Finder @django @Zibago @The Sandman @PaklovesTurkiye @Khafee @TaimiKhan @Zaki @The Eagle

Your concerns proved wrong. Courts in Pakistan has delivered it by issuing a landmark verdict.