Fighter characteristics

[MIG_ACE]

How about application of jaming technology, or other camo stuff to dodge trailing missile!

Batman, from what I've heard active homing missiles like the AIM-120C AMRAAM have the ability to detect where the jamming signal is coming from and home in on that causing the same result. I believe it's called Electronic Counter Counter-measures. (ECCM)

IMO the only way to counter an AMRAAM is to either be in a stealth aircraft or hope that the missile was fired from the edge of its range envelope giving you a chance to dodge or outrun it by retreating and dumping chaff.

 

[Amalek]

My favourites...

Sukhoi SU-30 MKI for Long Range Attack Missions
Gripen JAS-39 for Short Range Defensive Missions

 

[shehbazi2001]

When we talk about missiles, bombs, radars, ECM etc that are carried by a fighter aircraft.......we are in fact talking about a weapons system (the whole package)...........and we cant compare then the two aircrafts.......

This package can be broken down into Flight Performance, Radar and Avionics, Weapon Systems, Situational Awareness, Serviceability and Maintainability and perhaps some others.

Only the aircraft itself is always judged by its flight or aerodynamic performance and there are several performance aspects.

First everything in clean configuration..........landing distance, take-off distance, minimum landing speed, range (both low-level and altitude), endurance, climb rate, instantaneous and sustained turn rates (at different speeds and altitudes), high angle-of attack performance (max angle of attack), corner speed, roll rate, acceleration in vertical climb, ceiling etc

Then all these performance criteria with various loaded configurations and seeing that how fast the performance falls down. Flight Performance can be somewhat judged by the thrust-to-weight ratio and wing-loading of the aircraft.

But only the aerodynamic performance is not enough, as we saw with English Electra Lightning, which was the first aircraft capable of supercruise in early 1960s but due to advancement in Weapon Systems and Radar-Avionics, had to give way to modern fighters.

The pilot's point of view is also important like cockpit visibility or over-the-nose visibility, ease of controls (HOTAS), HUD/HMS/HMD etc.

Personally to me, Flanker is the champion in flight performance that broke the records set by F-15 Eagle, Gripen is champion in serviceability and maintainability, Eurofighter being champion in high-speed maneuverability, Raptor in stealth.....and I cant say who is champion in avionics and radar.....because these things can be improved and installed with some margin...........for weapons systems, many platforms are good in this area......

 

[Amalek]

When we talk about missiles, bombs, radars, ECM etc that are carried by a fighter aircraft.......we are in fact talking about a weapons system (the whole package)...........and we cant compare then the two aircrafts.......

This package can be broken down into Flight Performance, Radar and Avionics, Weapon Systems, Situational Awareness, Serviceability and Maintainability and perhaps some others.

Only the aircraft itself is always judged by its flight or aerodynamic performance and there are several performance aspects.

First everything in clean configuration..........landing distance, take-off distance, minimum landing speed, range (both low-level and altitude), endurance, climb rate, instantaneous and sustained turn rates (at different speeds and altitudes), high angle-of attack performance (max angle of attack), corner speed, roll rate, acceleration in vertical climb, ceiling etc

Then all these performance criteria with various loaded configurations and seeing that how fast the performance falls down. Flight Performance can be somewhat judged by the thrust-to-weight ratio and wing-loading of the aircraft.

But only the aerodynamic performance is not enough, as we saw with English Electra Lightning, which was the first aircraft capable of supercruise in early 1960s but due to advancement in Weapon Systems and Radar-Avionics, had to give way to modern fighters.

The pilot's point of view is also important like cockpit visibility or over-the-nose visibility, ease of controls (HOTAS), HUD/HMS/HMD etc.

Personally to me, Flanker is the champion in flight performance that broke the records set by F-15 Eagle, Gripen is champion in serviceability and maintainability, Eurofighter being champion in high-speed maneuverability, Raptor in stealth.....and I cant say who is champion in avionics and radar.....because these things can be improved and installed with some margin...........for weapons systems, many platforms are good in this area......

I believe the Australian Air Force loves Russian Fighter Aircraft, especially the Flanker. I had read many endorsements of the Russian Fighter Jets written by Australians. It is surprising that the Royal Australian AirForce still has no Russian Aircraft in its fleet.

Royal Australian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Speaking about the length.span and wing area of the aircrafts listed above, the su-30mki is the biggest fighter of 'em all....
The engines on them.,...the f-35 has got one 178kn engine, the Su-30mki has got two 125knn second just to the F-22 which has got two 169kn engines....
The maximum take-off weight is 34,500kg second only to the F-22 with 36,300kgs....weight in air-air combat is almost 25,000kgs second only to F-22 with 26,000kgs.....it's speed capabilities are equal to F-22 with match2.3 faring better than the f-22, and standing equal with the F-22 at sea....second to the F-22 on fuel capacity....and take a look at the load it can carry...its only about the external, with Isreali avionics and a superior radar that can act
as a mini-AWACS, The Su-30mki is a real beast..
......no-wonder, the US airforce wanted the F-22 so badly, su-30MKI can beat everything else hands down....

 

[blain2]

Speaking about the length.span and wing area of the aircrafts listed above, the su-30mki is the biggest fighter of 'em all....
The engines on them.,...the f-35 has got one 178kn engine, the Su-30mki has got two 125knn second just to the F-22 which has got two 169kn engines....
The maximum take-off weight is 34,500kg second only to the F-22 with 36,300kgs....weight in air-air combat is almost 25,000kgs second only to F-22 with 26,000kgs.....it's speed capabilities are equal to F-22 with match2.3 faring better than the f-22, and standing equal with the F-22 at sea....second to the F-22 on fuel capacity....and take a look at the load it can carry...its only about the external, with Isreali avionics and a superior radar that can act
as a mini-AWACS, The Su-30mki is a real beast..
......no-wonder, the US airforce wanted the F-22 so badly, su-30MKI can beat everything else hands down....

Please refrain from silly, jingoistic posts all the time. No Su-30MKI cannot beat everything hands down. It will get spanked in close in and in BVR just the same depending on how other aircraft are flown, equipped and employed. There are very many other non-TVC aircraft which have capabilities which can even up the situation fairly well. Range, payload etc. are definitely a plus, but they are not the only factors when considering air combat.

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Please refrain from silly, jingoistic posts all the time. No Su-30MKI cannot beat everything hands down. It will get spanked in close in and in BVR just the same depending on how other aircraft are flown, equipped and employed. There are very many other non-TVC aircraft which have capabilities which can even up the situation fairly well. Range, payload etc. are definitely a plus, but they are not the only factors when considering air combat.

I havent spoken anything silly nor I have spoken anything jingoistic.....

Su-30MKI is a long-range, high-endurance, heavy-class Air Dominance Fighter with multi mission capabilities. It is currently the most advanced version of Sukoi flying anywhere in the world.

some of the the technology and capability that the Su-30MKI boasts has absolutely no parallels across the world's air forces. The Su-30MKI gives its operator, the Indian Air Force, a capability that will remain unmatched by all rivals for the forseeable future.

it has the best features of the cancelled su 37/47 super flanker and more

the best western avionics systems possible(israeli, french)in the most menuverable of the airfames(of the su37), also many russian avionics have been replaced with better homemade stuff, lol made in india, i mean

fully 3D thrust vectoring nozzles (even the f22 has only a 2D thrust vectoring)

100% dual weapons capability, i mean it can use both the western and russian and indian weapons systems without the need for any mofications

has rearward facing radar for rear firing missiles (gone are the days in wich if an adversary is on ur tail all u can do is fire off chaff and flares and try to escape/break his lock on u before he shoots his missile at u

A radar that detects air targest to a range of 400 Nmiles and the capability to function as a mini awac(even thou the indian airfoce has the Phalcons as awacs, the su30mki's radar is sufficently long ranged enough to play a secondary role)

its reportedly the best front line fighter aircraft on service today(yep, cos the f22 isnt inducted still)
pretty soon the SU30MKI will be able to carry the modified "awac killer" version of the ks172 aam, wich has a range of around 400kms, as well as the 300km range march 3 anti ship "brahmos" missile.

The su-30MKI is the bloody best!!!

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Take a load of this....

EmM_UPU7bcY[/media] - Russian SU-30MK fighter aircraft

Miss it at your own risk!!!

 

[shehbazi2001]

Tactics have been used since long to deal with superior opponent.....in land, water or air.........the side using less-performing machine would need to concentrate more on tactics.......and getting some other plus points as compared to opponent.......

What can be "some other advantages"......German submarines were the best, but due to code breaking (ENIGMA machine) Allies were able to locate and attack them......german subs were not countered by another Allied sub.........

German weapons were always superior in WW-2, but still Germany lost........Germans had the first jet fighter of the world......FW-190 was only second to Mustang......and before Mustang, germans had superior aircraft..............the best Warships were german......like Bismark.....it was destroyed by WW-1 biplanes with torpedoes.....

In the East, Japanese Zero was a formidable fighter with superior performance than US Navy fighters like Wildcats........

No aircraft is without its weak points........japanese zero had a superior performance but it had no armour around cockpit and could not take beating.....was fragile.....It was the arrival of Hellcat that US Navy regained the edge......its external shape was like that of Wildcat and japanese pilots got killed in underestimating its performance......similarly I read on a forum that Mig-29 cant use its gun when its carrying its belly fuel tank because the tank blocks the shell discharge....

The high maneuverability of the Sukhoi is in the slow and mid-speed range......not at high-speed.............I forgot exactly, but the corner speed of Flanker was in 400 Miles per hour range..........the solution is to take the fight to the higher speed if its one-versus-one combat.....

At supersonic or high subsonic speeds, its the Eurofighter that has superior turn rates.....as compared to US teen fighters.....but it can be seen also against Flanker.....

and the best way to deal with a superior flying machine is to operate in pairs.......and cover each other.........A pair can do numerous techniques to counter opponent(s)..... like when attacked by Sukhoi, one can go up and other can go down.......sukhoi would chase one, the other can turn around and attack Sukhoi......there are numerous combinations and tactics that can be employed........

even if Sukhoi has got the backward-firing capability (which was in news some time ago but I am not sure of it), the pilot shall either concentrate on target in front of him or behind him.....

In the Vietnam war, the pilots fired single missiles at target and sometimes the Mig pulled too hard and evaded the missile.......Even then, the shrewd pilots fired two missiles on a target (esp in BVR fight) with some seconds difference in between.......when Mig countered one, it was shot down by second missile.........

So if Flanker makes a hard turn to evade missile, it would certainly lose energy and become an easy target for the second shot of the same fighter or first shot of the second fighter........a very high maneuverability can be killer in itself if not used properly. And this fact can be used to advantage, while one fighter forces somehow the Flanker to pull a hard turn and lose energy, the other fighter can quickly come in for the kill.

IMO, PAF would have to devise ingenious pair tactics.

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Tactics have been used since long to deal with superior opponent.....in land, water or air.........the side using less-performing machine would need to concentrate more on tactics.......and getting some other plus points as compared to opponent.......

What can be "some other advantages"......German submarines were the best, but due to code breaking (ENIGMA machine) Allies were able to locate and attack them......german subs were not countered by another Allied sub.........

German weapons were always superior in WW-2, but still Germany lost........Germans had the first jet fighter of the world......FW-190 was only second to Mustang......and before Mustang, germans had superior aircraft..............the best Warships were german......like Bismark.....it was destroyed by WW-1 biplanes with torpedoes.....

In the East, Japanese Zero was a formidable fighter with superior performance than US Navy fighters like Wildcats........

No aircraft is without its weak points........japanese zero had a superior performance but it had no armour around cockpit and could not take beating.....was fragile.....It was the arrival of Hellcat that US Navy regained the edge......its external shape was like that of Wildcat and japanese pilots got killed in underestimating its performance......similarly I read on a forum that Mig-29 cant use its gun when its carrying its belly fuel tank because the tank blocks the shell discharge....

The high maneuverability of the Sukhoi is in the slow and mid-speed range......not at high-speed.............I forgot exactly, but the corner speed of Flanker was in 400 Miles per hour range..........the solution is to take the fight to the higher speed if its one-versus-one combat.....

At supersonic or high subsonic speeds, its the Eurofighter that has superior turn rates.....as compared to US teen fighters.....but it can be seen also against Flanker.....

and the best way to deal with a superior flying machine is to operate in pairs.......and cover each other.........A pair can do numerous techniques to counter opponent(s)..... like when attacked by Sukhoi, one can go up and other can go down.......sukhoi would chase one, the other can turn around and attack Sukhoi......there are numerous combinations and tactics that can be employed........

even if Sukhoi has got the backward-firing capability (which was in news some time ago but I am not sure of it), the pilot shall either concentrate on target in front of him or behind him.....

In the Vietnam war, the pilots fired single missiles at target and sometimes the Mig pulled too hard and evaded the missile.......Even then, the shrewd pilots fired two missiles on a target (esp in BVR fight) with some seconds difference in between.......when Mig countered one, it was shot down by second missile.........

So if Flanker makes a hard turn to evade missile, it would certainly lose energy and become an easy target for the second shot of the same fighter or first shot of the second fighter........a very high maneuverability can be killer in itself if not used properly. And this fact can be used to advantage, while one fighter forces somehow the Flanker to pull a hard turn and lose energy, the other fighter can quickly come in for the kill.

IMO, PAF would have to devise ingenious pair tactics.

And do you expect single su-30MKI's trolling over???? What makes you think everybody except the su30-mki's are going to hunt in pairs???

 

[shehbazi2001]

As an aviation enthusiast, I like Flanker myself, but when its up against me, I shall have to do some planning.

The people who are getting paid for countering Su-30 shall be thinking over it even if the Flankers come in dozens............and its clear that even if PAF has thought of tactics against Flankers, those tactics would not be disclosed......

In the past too, PAF F-6s and Mirages have done ACM exercise with F-15 Eagle, F-4 Phantom and they must have tested their tactics like cheating the AI radar of F-15, cheating the missile's radar, cheating the fuse of missile warhead etc etc there are many tricks than just defeating the aircraft performance.......man don't worry............

Its not my job to think of outperforming the Flanker, but I think its better instead to focus on defeating the weapons and sensors of Flanker rather than Flanker itself..............these are the weapons that make kills.................

 

[Comet]

Flanker is just another jet with a little bit more add-ons.
This scenario not like F22 VS Mustang. there is a chance that flanker will get killing ratio 2:1 or so. I mean its not still perfect neither there is any huge gap between technologies of it and F16.

 

[Imran Khan]

eurofighter has 13 hardpoints its first on hardpoints

 

[shehbazi2001]

Here is a high-speed dogfight that shows the importance of deflection shooting, over-the-nose visibility and the techniques used for shooting a fighter with superior turning performance........

This is an episode of Dogfights called SUPERSONIC......it shows the dogfights that were fought at or near the supersonic speeds....

Dogfights: Supersonic - Phil Handley

or

supersonic+dogfights - Google Video

 

[Neo]

Take a load of this....

EmM_UPU7bcY[/media] - Russian SU-30MK fighter aircraft

Miss it at your own risk!!!

Great accrobatic skills indeed!

But I still don't understand what value can be added to a TVC equipped platform in a net centric warfare.
Evasive manoevering..?

Both India and Pakistan will be getting AWACS capability soon, neither side would want to take the risk to get in close range, so its all about BVR and who takes the first shot.

What about fuel consumption and thrust to weight ratio when fully equipped and loaded?
I've never seen a fully equipped Flanker doing the TVC accrobatics.