Fictional Letter by COAS Kiyani

[TaimiKhan]

Just to refresh your memory:

(1) During question hour in the parliament it has transpired that military officers get one plot after 15 years of service, a second one after 25, a third one after 28 years and a fourth one after 33 years of service each worth more than 15 million rupees in the open market.

That would be a surprise as i know dozens of officers having spent 30 years in service, gotten retired, still have just 2 plots. Even know officers in service who are reaching 30 yrs service but given just 2.

(2) In answer to a Question in the Senate, the federal government has revealed that 485 residential plots in various cities of all four provinces were allotted to Army officers between October 1999 and July 2003. The plots were allotted to officers of all ranks from full general down to lieutenant. These plots were not allotted at a subsidy; they were given away almost free. Technically leased, the terms were token: Rs 5 per sq yd premium, with an annual lease of Rs 0.50 per sq yd. This works out to Rs 4000 for a plot just over one and a half kanals, with an annual rent of Rs 80. Even in a depressed real estate market, the worth would be at least Rs 6 million.

Kindly don't put the misdeeds of Musharaf on the whole army, there are roughly 12,000+ officers in the whole army, 485 plots may further be divided into less number officers as some favorites ones may have gotten more then one, which would mean merely 2-3% officers got them out of favoritism.

(3) Just last year when as many as 200 old settlements were being bulldozed in Karachi in the Lyari Expressway scheme, 248 acres of prime land on the sea front were given to the Defense Housing Authority at the rate of Rs20 per square yard. The value of this land had been evaluated at Rs. 25,000 per square yard for commercial use and Rs. 15,000 per square yard for residential purposes.

Wasn't there a political govt last year ?? So how come they gave it to DHA when army isn't even in power ?? Doesn't it means politicians would be involved too ??

(4) The National Assembly was informed on Monday, September 8, 2003 that during the last 12 years of both political and military regimes (1990-2002) a total of 34 defense officers housing schemes of various sizes for officers of the Pakistan Army were established over an area of almost 1,000 acres of land. Out of 34, only two housing schemes of 15 acres have been launched for Jawans and non-commissioned officers. Would it be wrong to say that these housing schemes are denying right of thousands of jawans, who remain on the frontline laying down their lives in the defense of the motherland? The wholesale “bandar bant” is only for star officers.

I believe in past there wasn't even this, so its at least a good start, plus have you any idea how many ORs, NCOs & JCOs retire each year ?? Do you seriously believe they all can be accommodated ?? Do you think they can pay the installments each month & then their home's expenses too ?? Can they fulfill the monetary obligations as i said officer keep paying even after retirement and nearly all pay late as they don't have all the funds. No doubt jawans are the first wave, but if you see the data of deaths in the war on taliban, for every 10 jawans martyred one officer got martyred too. A 10:1 ratio considering that in regular army the ratio of jawans under one officer is more then that, suggesting that officers are also paying a heavy price with their jawans. By the way officer see the same action as jawans do, just for an example on borders or in siachen or kashmir or in deserts or in FATA regions, officers live with their jawans. My own bro is living with his 15 jawans in one same room, uses the same one washroom, eats the same hard to crack rotis, pakoras, same tin food, fetches water from downstream nullah as per his number, keeps awake all night performing his duty with his jawans, so kindly if you have the perception that officers don't do what jawans do, kindly look into the reality then. Criticizing is very easy, without knowing the inner things. Don't become an Imran Khan, who has no idea what the hell he talks about.

Put it in simple words, the GHQ awards large plots to officers, who buy them at dirt-cheap prices only to sell them off to civilians and make huge profits.

Well if you are so much informed, it would be requested then that you kindly know how DHA works, and try to find out that why people with huge lands come to DHA & offer their land to DHA for construction & why it sells at dirt cheap prices to army officers & then how army officers make good money out of it. Without knowing it would be futile to keep accusing.

Plus also see what becomes of the housing schemes which govt launches & why that happens to them. Also, if you know the federal govt also gives plots & flats to its govt servants at very dirt cheap prices. Ever asked the govt for that ?? Any idea what became of Islamabad Green City, guaranteed by the last PPP govt & a decade later people still waiting for their money to return. Just Google and see how much corruption govt sponsored & civil sponsored housing schemes have done, which has resulted in loss of confidence on them, while DHA has an immaculate record of delivering on its promises resulting in over confidence on DHA by the civilian people who rush to buy anything offered by DHA.

Any idea why Bahria Town became so successful ?? Have you seen the model they have adopted ? & by copying whose idea ??


As i said there is one full world of corruption & deception then the army. At least army or armed forces are looking after their own people, who has stopped the federal & provincial govts to adopt such policy ??

Corruption aside, the reason for DHA success has been the way of working, which is disliked by people as they can't make similar success, only Bahria Town made it. Ever thought how much money the civilian people made from the success of Bahria Town ??

Grow up guys, grow up.

But i believe Sonic bro, no matter how much is written your grudge against army won't go as you seem of the Imran Khan type, who are stick to their guns no matter what is happening around them or what reality is.

Try to think open minded & analyze things from different angles.

As i always say, army is not perfect, they have short comings, but there is a sense of brotherhood between then, jawans or officers alike & army takes care of its people. No body else has been prohibited to do the same.

 

[Comet]

But you can afford the luxury of having corrupt politicians & bureaucrats who are minting billions, just think PSDP is 600Billion+ program how much corruption is done in it. Politicians getting billions in aid money, minting money from the people to whom they give aid money, like BISP where from each applicant some money is taken by the local nazim or MPA or MNA & goes into his pocket.

Ever thought how much loss is being done to the nation just by the national utility organizations or by public sector organizations ??

Guys you need to grow up & see the other side of the picture other then just going after the army.

Defence budget is now on 4th number. Current expenditure of the govt is on top, then debt servicing & then comes the PSDP fund.

Leave army aside & try to focus your energy to the real causes.

Any idea how much money the govt gonna make in the rental electricity project ??

Grow up now & analyze the real threats. Army is no issue now as past.

By saying what I said in my earlier post, I didn't mean to say that it ONLY army that is eating away Pakistan. Believe me, I have lived with my uncle who was Maj. Gen, a lot of luxuries they had were not necessary. They could have easily lived without them.

Politicians are also corrupt. Does that mean that we allow every one to eat away Pakistan. Grow Up. Remember, it was the army guy who let the politicians take all the money (NRO) .

If Politicians are corrupt that does not imply that any one or every one has the right to be corrupt. This is a lame excuse.

 

[r0ck]

In our country corruption is all around us, whether be it by politicians, army personnel or civilians alike. But, if politicians are discussed normally nobody has objections, but when corruption charges are levied on any army personnel things start to get a bit jumpy. Unfortunately, it's true that some lavish lifestyles are being held by some prominent army personnel although they are government officers just like the politicians. If this is not due to corruption, I don't know what is. There's no shame in denying it, it is but a mere fact.

Please don't get me wrong, I have the utmost, sincerest respect for our great Pakistan Army and I know this corruption doesn't encirlce every officer. But, ofcourse the 'shortcomings' in the Pakistan Army as stated by brother 'taimikhan', aren't so short in reality.

 

[TaimiKhan]

By saying what I said in my earlier post, I didn't mean to say that it ONLY army that is eating away Pakistan. Believe me, I have lived with my uncle who was Maj. Gen, a lot of luxuries they had were not necessary. They could have easily lived without them.

Politicians are also corrupt. Does that mean that we allow every one to eat away Pakistan. Grow Up. Remember, it was the army guy who let the politicians take all the money (NRO) .

If Politicians are corrupt that does not imply that any one or every one has the right to be corrupt. This is a lame excuse.

Have you any idea what NRO is ?? Ever read the NRO ?? Do read it first & then kindly discuss.

And as for your answer, kindly read the post posted after yours above one. Which is what i meant to say. Everyone jumps when it comes to the Army, but for politicians the jumping stops. There should be same kind of treatment. Other thing, if army is making millions, your politicians & bureaucrats are making billions, hope you understand the difference and can see who is damaging more. Just for reference NAB recovered more then 3B US$ worth of money in their decade or so of existence, PKR roughly 250B+. Billions left to recover still but your loved political govt came and gave the nation something worse then NRO. Do read what the new accountability reference or commission would be. In army till the rank of Brigadier corruption is nearly ZERO, except a rare case where one gets some kind of a seat where he can do something, but its a rare opportunity which is not availed by everyone, but in your civil setup from a line man to a reader meter to a clerk or to a grade 17 officer starts corruption. NAB made a case on one line man of WAPDA, he had stolen electricity wire of worth millions, just imagine just a line man did that, imagine what other officials could do. One Doctor in charge of a medicine store in a govt hospital had a three story house with an elevator in it. Hundreds of stories more to be heard.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that before pointing fingers always at the army, kindly see to the civilians also. Compare which is the larger eater of our wealth. And yes if civilians do it, it doesn't gives an excuse to anyone else to do the same. Nor did i said in any of my posts. Just be fare.

 

[Comet]

Have you any idea what NRO is ?? Ever read the NRO ?? Do read it first & then kindly discuss.

And as for your answer, kindly read the post posted after yours above one. Which is what i meant to say. Everyone jumps when it comes to the Army, but for politicians the jumping stops. There should be same kind of treatment. Other thing, if army is making millions, your politicians & bureaucrats are making billions, hope you understand the difference and can see who is damaging more. Just for reference NAB recovered more then 3B US$ worth of money in their decade or so of existence, PKR roughly 250B+. Billions left to recover still but your loved political govt came and gave the nation something worse then NRO. Do read what the new accountability reference or commission would be. In army till the rank of Brigadier corruption is nearly ZERO, except a rare case where one gets some kind of a seat where he can do something, but its a rare opportunity which is not availed by everyone, but in your civil setup from a line man to a reader meter to a clerk or to a grade 17 officer starts corruption. NAB made a case on one line man of WAPDA, he had stolen electricity wire of worth millions, just imagine just a line man did that, imagine what would be the other officials could do. One Doctor in charge of a medicine store in a govt hospital had a three story house with an elevator in it. Hundreds of stories more to be heard.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that before pointing fingers always at the army, kindly see to the civilians also. Compare which is the larger eater of our wealth. And yes if civilians do it, it doesn't gives an excuse to anyone else to do the same. Nor did i said in any of my posts. Just be fare.

'Lagta hai aap kp roza lag gaya hai'

Show me any of my post where I have defended Politicians and alike.
I am equally against the culprits. But your problem is that you want the army to get away with it by pointing finger at the civilians.

Civilians are also wrong and Army wala are also. This is our country and we have to save it from people who exploit it.

Tell me just one thing.... What good is a golf course for the defense of the country ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

'Lagta hai aap kp roza lag gaya hai'

Show me any of my post where I have defended Politicians and alike.
I am equally against the culprits. But your problem is that you want the army to get away with it by pointing finger at the civilians.

Civilians are also wrong and Army wala are also. This is our country and we have to save it from people who exploit it.

Tell me just one thing.... What good is a golf course for the defense of the country ?

Is mae roza lagnay wali koie baat nahien hai, but afsoos hota hai that people describe one face of the picture while ignoring the other. On this forum i have seen many members trying to showoff by blaming the army for corruption & other bad deeds while totally ignoring the other side.

Kindly can you tell me where i said army should be let go of its bad deeds ?? All i have said is both sides should be accounted for & criticized. Plus, our civilian setup should adopt some of the good things of the army, specially the management techniques so that civil setup becomes effective & efficient too. Army should be held accountable for its wrong doing, so should be the politicians & bureaucrats. No one is above the law.

As for Golf courses, can you tell why do we have play grounds ?? Gymkhana clubs ?? why we have sporting activities ?? why so huge cricket grounds ?? hockey grounds ?? swimming pools ?? why are there some games played which have no practical use to a person ?? Why ??

Why are the bureaucrats & politicians & business mans & industrialists & self employed professionals & other professionals members of various private & govt clubs ?? I do hope you know about Islamabad Club ?? Why they need such memberships of such clubs when they can do work as per their professions ??

 

[Comet]

Is mae roza lagnay wali koie baat nahien hai, but afsoos hota hai that people describe one face of the picture while ignoring the other. On this forum i have seen many members trying to showoff by blaming the army for corruption & other bad deeds while totally ignoring the other side.

Kindly can you tell me where i said army should be let go of its bad deeds ?? All i have said is both sides should be accounted for & criticized.

Exactly what I am saying.

Plus, our civilian setup should adopt some of the good things of the army, specially the management techniques so that civil setup becomes effective & efficient too. Army should be held accountable for its wrong doing, so should be the politicians & bureaucrats. No one is above the law.

It is the discipline that makes army better than other institutes. We should enforce this discipline into the civilian sector.

 

[sonicboom]

That would be a surprise as i know dozens of officers having spent 30 years in service, gotten retired, still have just 2 plots. Even know officers in service who are reaching 30 yrs service but given just 2.




Kindly don't put the misdeeds of Musharaf on the whole army, there are roughly 12,000+ officers in the whole army, 485 plots may further be divided into less number officers as some favorites ones may have gotten more then one, which would mean merely 2-3% officers got them out of favoritism.




Wasn't there a political govt last year ?? So how come they gave it to DHA when army isn't even in power ?? Doesn't it means politicians would be involved too ??




I believe in past there wasn't even this, so its at least a good start, plus have you any idea how many ORs, NCOs & JCOs retire each year ?? Do you seriously believe they all can be accommodated ?? Do you think they can pay the installments each month & then their home's expenses too ?? Can they fulfill the monetary obligations as i said officer keep paying even after retirement and nearly all pay late as they don't have all the funds. No doubt jawans are the first wave, but if you see the data of deaths in the war on taliban, for every 10 jawans martyred one officer got martyred too. A 10:1 ratio considering that in regular army the ratio of jawans under one officer is more then that, suggesting that officers are also paying a heavy price with their jawans. By the way officer see the same action as jawans do, just for an example on borders or in siachen or kashmir or in deserts or in FATA regions, officers live with their jawans. My own bro is living with his 15 jawans in one same room, uses the same one washroom, eats the same hard to crack rotis, pakoras, same tin food, fetches water from downstream nullah as per his number, keeps awake all night performing his duty with his jawans, so kindly if you have the perception that officers don't do what jawans do, kindly look into the reality then. Criticizing is very easy, without knowing the inner things. Don't become an Imran Khan, who has no idea what the hell he talks about.



Well if you are so much informed, it would be requested then that you kindly know how DHA works, and try to find out that why people with huge lands come to DHA & offer their land to DHA for construction & why it sells at dirt cheap prices to army officers & then how army officers make good money out of it. Without knowing it would be futile to keep accusing.

Plus also see what becomes of the housing schemes which govt launches & why that happens to them. Also, if you know the federal govt also gives plots & flats to its govt servants at very dirt cheap prices. Ever asked the govt for that ?? Any idea what became of Islamabad Green City, guaranteed by the last PPP govt & a decade later people still waiting for their money to return. Just Google and see how much corruption govt sponsored & civil sponsored housing schemes have done, which has resulted in loss of confidence on them, while DHA has an immaculate record of delivering on its promises resulting in over confidence on DHA by the civilian people who rush to buy anything offered by DHA.

Any idea why Bahria Town became so successful ?? Have you seen the model they have adopted ? & by copying whose idea ??


As i said there is one full world of corruption & deception then the army. At least army or armed forces are looking after their own people, who has stopped the federal & provincial govts to adopt such policy ??

Corruption aside, the reason for DHA success has been the way of working, which is disliked by people as they can't make similar success, only Bahria Town made it. Ever thought how much money the civilian people made from the success of Bahria Town ??

Grow up guys, grow up.

But i believe Sonic bro, no matter how much is written your grudge against army won't go as you seem of the Imran Khan type, who are stick to their guns no matter what is happening around them or what reality is.

Try to think open minded & analyze things from different angles.

As i always say, army is not perfect, they have short comings, but there is a sense of brotherhood between then, jawans or officers alike & army takes care of its people. No body else has been prohibited to do the same.

Sir:

Being a son of an army officer, I can see where you are coming from. Your bulk of thrust is always being spent on defending the army officers regardless of the point being discussed are valid or not. Your approach is always one sided and I would suggest that you take a hard look and try using a balanced approach. There is no harm in accepting valid points and you need to avoid using excuses and baseless points. Instead of telling other people to grow up, it’s about time for you to come in real world and accept the facts being presented by the Pakistan media and the public. There is a great resentment among Pakistani people about these lavish defense colonies being popping up in all urban areas while most of the Pakistani’s can’t even afford a one room house. I don’t mind awarding or giving a single plot to an officer who has accomplished above and beyond the day to day duties. However I do mind giving theses plots acquired by national exchequer for dirt cheap prices to ‘era ghara nathu khaira’ for doing nothing but just day to day duties.

I find it sad that the forum has a representation from many army officers, ex and current, along with sons/daughters to represent and fight their cause but not a single representation from the JCO’s/NCO’s. And yes any JCO/NCO will be able to pay the dirt cheap price being offered to an army officer. But the rules are made at GHQ represented by officers. I am just wondering what would happen if we reverse the role and let JCO’s/NCO’s make some of the rules for allotment of the plots and defense colonies?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir:

Being a son of an army officer, I can see where you are coming from. Your bulk of thrust is always being spent on defending the army officers regardless of the point being discussed are valid or not. Your approach is always one sided and I would suggest that you take a hard look and try using a balanced approach. There is no harm in accepting valid points and you need to avoid using excuses and baseless points. Instead of telling other people to grow up, it’s about time for you to come in real world and accept the facts being presented by the Pakistan media and the public. There is a great resentment among Pakistani people about these lavish defense colonies being popping up in all urban areas while most of the Pakistani’s can’t even afford a one room house. I don’t mind awarding or giving a single plot to an officer who has accomplished above and beyond the day to day duties. However I do mind giving theses plots acquired by national exchequer for dirt cheap prices to ‘era ghara nathu khaira’ for doing nothing but just day to day duties.

I find it sad that the forum has a representation from many army officers, ex and current, along with sons/daughters to represent and fight their cause but not a single representation from the JCO’s/NCO’s. And yes any JCO/NCO will be able to pay the dirt cheap price being offered to an army officer. But the rules are made at GHQ represented by officers. I am just wondering what would happen if we reverse the role and let JCO’s/NCO’s make some of the rules for allotment of the plots and defense colonies?

Sonic, i believe you don't read the posts well enough, in none of my posts i have said that what army does is right or there is no corruption in army. I have mentioned repeatedly that army has its short comings too, there is corruption, i am not here just to defend the army, if you have read the posts with little attention, i have repeatedly said that the blame should be equal, army as well as civilians. But truth is that the larger share of corruption is on the civilian side. Gave you numerous examples too, kindly do read them up. And what Pakistan media says are the words of some psychos who have nothing else to do other then to blame the army to hide the corruption being done by politicians or other civilian deptts. These are the same guys who have been in the govt & made millions or the ones who work for people who wish to harm Pakistan.

By the every officer achieves accomplishes something for his country during his tenure in one way or another. If you don't have the idea what army is about & what officers go through, plzzzz don't comment then.

As for However I do mind giving theses plots acquired by national exchequer for dirt cheap prices to ‘era ghara nathu khaira’ for doing nothing but just day to day duties, i told you before plzzzzzz read how DHA works. People come begging to DHA to acquire their land & construct homes there.

Do you have any idea how it works ??? Ok let me tell in a short way, i know its gonna be of no use as your mindset is already anti-pakistan army & it won't change as you are among some of those people who i mentioned above, who have problem with army doing corruption but have no problem with civilians & politicians doing away with billions.

In your case of DHA acquiring land in Karachi from govt on cheap prices, in this deal the govt gets a share of the plots which will be created after the DHA starts development work. Same goes for other housing schemes, people come to DHA with huge land pieces in areas where development can be done. What DHA does is give plots to these owners as per a specified ratio to the land being acquired. Just to give an idea, am just hypothesizing it to give you an idea of how it works, 1 hectare land has around 8 kanals in it, so DHA will give 2 files of 1 kanal each plot to the owner of the 1 hectare land & when the development completes those just 2 kanal plots with the owner will be worth more then his original 1 hectare of land which he gave to the DHA. Same now goes for your Karachi case, the govt would have given it at low cheap rates, but they will be having dozens rather hundreds of plots once DHA completes development work & those plots with govt will be worth billions & many times more then what they may have gotten at the start when leasing it out to DHA. Highlighted so that you can read it with some attention.

This is how DHA operates & in this whole process no money from national exchequer is used as DHA uses the money with itself gotten through earlier sale of plots, with money deposited by the members for their plots & by giving the contracts to sub-developers who complete the work on their own money & when development completes DHA gives them the money from their own sources. Whenever DHA announces some scheme, there are no plots physically, there is only a blue print of the plots or the scheme, so when people are given their plots through balloting, they deposit advance money or first installments, from that amount DHA starts the development work & as time passes people deposit more of the money in installment which are further used in the development work, that is the reason people get the possession of their plots after years. The recent DHA scheme in Karachi had a 10 year time period when physically the plot will be given to its owner.

I do hope you have gotten some idea how DHA works as govt is not foolish for giving prime land on cheap dirt rates.

And as for ORs/NCOs/JCO i gave you some logical explanation of why it is difficult but good thing is that at least this process has started, which would be a very promising thing for the future to come, today started with 2 schemes & it may increase to 10 in years to come. Nobody wants to degrade the ORs/NCOs/JCOs on this forum, we & the officer themselves have the same respect for them as they are the engine which runs the car. Without them nothing is possible.

By the way army is now concentrating on their accommodation requirements in the station areas & in past few years many housing projects have been created so that more of the serving ORs/NCOs/JCOs can live with their families when stationed on a livable station.

Once again, don't ask me to grow up & change my views as I am a mature person not being in my teens having enough educational background & practical life experience to be knowing who is doing what & in what quantity. I have always shared the views that corruption is bad either by anyone, no one is above the law, but the reason i defend army more is due to guys like you who are bent upon the wrong perceptions by watching & reading people who have no idea what in reality is happening.

Army is not a fauj of farishtay, they indulge in wrong doing too when get the chance, its human nature but at least they are better then the other who eat billions of the nation's money including the money & saving of ordinary people of Pakistan & then runaway or hide their money abroad.

It would be appreciated that if you took a balance view & accuse everyone in a healthy criticism way not the other way around. As I have not seen such thing from you in any of your posts. Problem with army is that it has been in the limelight for way too long due to its political role due to which people target it more, but if you come to know about the privileges & corruption of our MPAs, MNAs, Senator, Bureaucrats & other public sector companies you will forget the army or its generals. And i have the privilege of having studied all of them, that's why i side by the army as its way better then them at least.