FGFA vs J-XX

[Moscow]

please close this thread because no one can comment on planes that presently don't exist

3 prototypes of PAKFA do exist 1 of them in zhukovsky where ground trails are taking place 2 other in sukhois siberia plant at various stages of incorporation

doses the jxx even exist on a paper model?

the engines for pakfa is on display , the radar is on display the various pods are on display even the paints on the pakfa are made public anywhere close is jxx
the entire internal bay weapons technology for pakfa is made public how and what they will carry and work does jxx have anything to say

i guess nothing so better close the thread as 1 of the planes is a myth another one have never seen the light of the day in the sky

 

[lockh33d]

3 prototypes of PAKFA do exist 1 of them in zhukovsky where ground trails are taking place 2 other in sukhois siberia plant at various stages of incorporation

doses the jxx even exist on a paper model?

the engines for pakfa is on display , the radar is on display the various pods are on display even the paints on the pakfa are made public anywhere close is jxx
the entire internal bay weapons technology for pakfa is made public how and what they will carry and work does jxx have anything to say

i guess nothing so better close the thread as 1 of the planes is a myth another one have never seen the light of the day in the sky

So what, Russians are so damn slow to the extent that it'll take you AND India another 10+ years to finish testing. Whereas in the J-XX's case, it's already been confirmed that it'll be introduced after 8-10 years, regardless of the stupid official displays, that's just to show off your slow pace, having parts for show while your airframe hasn't even been finalized yet.

 

[S10]

3 prototypes of PAKFA do exist 1 of them in zhukovsky where ground trails are taking place 2 other in sukhois siberia plant at various stages of incorporation

doses the jxx even exist on a paper model?

the engines for pakfa is on display , the radar is on display the various pods are on display even the paints on the pakfa are made public anywhere close is jxx
the entire internal bay weapons technology for pakfa is made public how and what they will carry and work does jxx have anything to say

i guess nothing so better close the thread as 1 of the planes is a myth another one have never seen the light of the day in the sky

China had already shown model of WS-15 engine during last year's Zhuhai Airshow, which will be used to power the 5th generation fighter. Also, current J-11B are equipped with PESA while J-10B is testing AESA, which means China does have the required expertise to develop the radar if it hasn't already. There had also been pictures of wind tunnel tests as well as interviews of military officials confirming the project.

Finally and most importantly, China is not in a habit to advertise before they actually have a finished product. J-10 entered service in 2004 but officially it was not revealed to the public until late 2007. Chances are, China won't mention a word of J-XX until it's in service. It's actually better this way since you won't look bad for breaking first flight promises year after year.

 

[unicorn148]

So what, Russians are so damn slow to the extent that it'll take you AND India another 10+ years to finish testing. Whereas in the J-XX's case, it's already been confirmed that it'll be introduced after 8-10 years, regardless of the stupid official displays, that's just to show off your slow pace, having parts for show while your airframe hasn't even been finalized yet.

india FGFA will be inducted by 2017 and it will tested in 2009-2010

 

[PAFAce]

i guess nothing so better close the thread as 1 of the planes is a myth another one have never seen the light of the day in the sky

Technology Demonstrators could be called prototypes, as they demonstrate basic technology prototypes. However, there is no PAK-FA prototype currently. It won't be for a while, for any advanced fighter program, the technology freeze can't come this early. If the engine and the radar have been frozen, then it won't be a next-gen aircraft, it will be an advanced current-gen.

I've discussed this with many colleagues. An advanced tech demonstrator will make its flight next year, but it won't be a PAK-FA prototype. The J-XX, well, the first tech dem will fly next year as well (platform will likely be the J-10A), which means it is still quite some time behind the PAK-FA.

india FGFA will be inducted by 2017 and it will tested in 2009-2010

And then you will wake up from your dream and realize this:

You will have just completed, or will be near completion, of the MMRCA in 2017. There will be no induction of any FGFA in 2017, according to your own Chief of Air Staff. The Russian PAK-FA will complete IOC around 2017 (hypothetically), which means you won't be inducting anything until 2020. Your defence minister said you will begin induction by 2017, but he is not very bright. He has contradicted your Chief of Air Staff twice, once on this issue and once on the MMRCA deal. It's your choice, believe a politician with no engineering or aerospace background, believe your own Chief of Air Staff and professional Aerospace engineers, or believe in fantasies.

 

[lockh33d]

india FGFA will be inducted by 2017 and it will tested in 2009-2010

Yes but that statement really be trusted after the scheduled first flight of the aircraft has been delayed for 5 years?

 

[Moscow]

Yes but that statement really be trusted after the scheduled first flight of the aircraft has been delayed for 5 years?

link to your claim? official source either knappo,uac,sukhoi? who have any ? BS JUST!!

another the chinese are building ws2x for their 4th gen fighter the ws-15 has been rejected for the 4th gen program
i cannot give any links nor validate my point because there is no ink to the claim

about the pakfa prototype question here is a take
a tech demonstrator is one which are used to test various technologies which in future course of time may progress to full development or which may not be
su-47 is a classic tech demonstrator that was used to test a lot of aspects yet not developed into a full production unlike the case with pakfa the pakfa scheduled plan is to start in a step wise manner which ultimately would lead to a production plan and to this effect efforts and funds have been diverted
every fighter program starts with a tech demonstrator and its same with pakfa but when you mean prototype you meant that all valid final products are integrated into a single complex and tested yes if thats the case then it will require much more time but if you ask about airframes and basic setups there exists 3 such prototypes and its confirmed by Knappo officials time and again. most of the technology to be used are individually been tested on the BM model while we speak


and stop the bs about delay most of the time russian production was delayed because of funds unlike the case with pakfa


having sayed that it get a mature platform you need at least a decade to test and sort out issues fighter planes are not born overnight , i am not a fanboy so i understand that its too early to even discuss the planes but my replies were to iron out the illogical BS and wrong information thats been circulated to undermine the real efforts

 

[lockh33d]

link to your claim? official source either knappo,uac,sukhoi? who have any ? BS JUST!!

another the chinese are building ws2x for their 4th gen fighter the ws-15 has been rejected for the 4th gen program
i cannot give any links nor validate my point because there is no ink to the claim

about the pakfa prototype question here is a take
a tech demonstrator is one which are used to test various technologies which in future course of time may progress to full development or which may not be
su-47 is a classic tech demonstrator that was used to test a lot of aspects yet not developed into a full production unlike the case with pakfa the pakfa scheduled plan is to start in a step wise manner which ultimately would lead to a production plan and to this effect efforts and funds have been diverted
every fighter program starts with a tech demonstrator and its same with pakfa but when you mean prototype you meant that all valid final products are integrated into a single complex and tested yes if thats the case then it will require much more time but if you ask about airframes and basic setups there exists 3 such prototypes and its confirmed by Knappo officials time and again. most of the technology to be used are individually been tested on the BM model while we speak


and stop the bs about delay most of the time russian production was delayed because of funds unlike the case with pakfa


having sayed that it get a mature platform you need at least a decade to test and sort out issues fighter planes are not born overnight , i am not a fanboy so i understand that its too early to even discuss the planes but my replies were to iron out the illogical BS and wrong information thats been circulated to undermine the real efforts

1) Link:PAK-FA Delayed: Financing Blamed for New Russian Fighter Delay, page 1

It was delayed ever since 2005 and now that we're nearing 2010, IT STILL HASN'T FLEW!

2) So without a link to WS-15's rejection, how did the info get to you in the first place? If you say "Govt info/secret," then I'll just leave it at that because I can understand. Otherwise, I call bollox.

[MOD Edit] This is an International Forum, where anyone from anywhere can join and discuss. There is no restrictions on anyone except for those who cross the line.

 

[BlackenTheSky]

How we pronounce fgfa....figfa or F.G.F.A....?

 

[lockh33d]

How we pronounce fgfa....figfa or F.G.F.A....?

Post deleted by a think tank mod

 

[ptldM3]

So what, Russians are so damn slow to the extent that it'll take you AND India another 10+ years to finish testing. Whereas in the J-XX's case, it's already been confirmed that it'll be introduced after 8-10 years, regardless of the stupid official displays, that's just to show off your slow pace, having parts for show while your airframe hasn't even been finalized yet.

Just an FYI, work on the Pak Fa only started in 2002 and already there is 3 prototypes. You seem to be ill informed. The "parts" are the most important peices of the aircraft. Russia already has an AESA, two actually, and most of the the other avionics are finished or nearly finished. Besides a promise What does China have? Better question, how can China built a fifth generation aircraft if they couldn't built the J-10 without Russian and Israeli help. caugh...Lavi blueprints...caugh. Without Lavi bluprints and Russian/Israeli engineers the J-10 would still be a work in progress, and without Russian engines and other avionics the J-10 would probably not have even taken off the ground.

1) Link: Financing Blamed for New Russian Fighter Delay, page 1[/url]

AboveTopSecret, Really? Next time give a real link! You just gave a link with quotes without a link.

It was delayed ever since 2005 and now that we're nearing 2010, IT STILL HASN'T FLEW!

Again work on the Pak Fa only started in 2002. And there are already 3 prototypes scheduled to fly no later than February. These are prototypes not tech demonstrators, meaning one of them may very well be the final product.

 

[lockh33d]

Just an FYI, work on the Pak Fa only started in 2002 and already there is 3 prototypes. You seem to be ill informed. The "parts" are the most important peices of the aircraft. Russia already has an AESA, two actually, and most of the the other avionics are finished or nearly finished. Besides a promise What does China have? Better question, how can China built a fifth generation aircraft if they couldn't built the J-10 without Russian and Israeli help. caugh...Lavi blueprints...caugh. Without Lavi bluprints and Russian/Israeli engineers the J-10 would still be a work in progress, and without Russian engines and other avionics the J-10 would probably not have even taken off the ground.





AboveTopSecret, Really? Next time give a real link! You just gave a link with quotes without a link.



Again work on the Pak Fa only started in 2002. And there are already 3 prototypes scheduled to fly no later than February. These are prototypes not tech demonstrators, meaning one of them may very well be the final product.

[MOD Edit] Without proof accusing is not helpful nor required. If any issue with ID of a member, plz send your query to Webmaster.

As for the J-10, I know, we all know, that it resembles the Lavi, but how can you prove it so with official specs? You can't can you? It's all speculation, by noobs and skeptics alike.

Also, we don't hire "Russian" engineers, we hire "Soviet" engineers who quit their jobs in their motherland because it couldn't afford to pay their dinner . Now, they work permanently for the PRC and should really be called "Chinese." .

As for the "Abovetopsecret" link, I personally think it's legitimate, tell me why you think it's bullcrap, I'll be glad to hear from you.

To be honest, I had faith in the PAK-FA project. But now that's it's overrun by Indians and the fact that I had highly anticipated for it to fly in the past 2-3 years really ruined my confidence and my patience, it really did. How can you assure me that the PAK will fly next Feb? Can you assure me that the engineers won't run out of dinner money before then? . Just joking btw.

 

[S10]

another the chinese are building ws2x for their 4th gen fighter the ws-15 has been rejected for the 4th gen program

I always love it when people slap their own faces, like you're currently doing.

i cannot give any links nor validate my point because there is no ink to the claim

That would make your claims invalid.

Just an FYI, work on the Pak Fa only started in 2002 and already there is 3 prototypes. You seem to be ill informed. The "parts" are the most important peices of the aircraft. Russia already has an AESA, two actually, and most of the the other avionics are finished or nearly finished. Besides a promise What does China have? Better question, how can China built a fifth generation aircraft if they couldn't built the J-10 without Russian and Israeli help. caugh...Lavi blueprints...caugh. Without Lavi bluprints and Russian/Israeli engineers the J-10 would still be a work in progress, and without Russian engines and other avionics the J-10 would probably not have even taken off the ground.

This is actually quite funny, as J-10 is a development of the cancelled J-9. Israelis helped China with calculation of data in the mid to late 1980's. Their technicians would come to China, bring back flight data to Israel for analysis, then send it back to China. No component was ever transferred between the two sides. The claim that J-10 is a Lavi copy is really just a funny claim.

Second, only the engine on J-10 is currently purchased from Russia, as China found Russian avionics to be inferior. This should be apparent to you by now considering China ditched the Russian kits for Su-27SK and produced its own J-11 back in 2005. While Russia did provide some help to the J-10 program, China has grown out of that need. Notice how the last engine order for AL-31F were in 2007, yet J-10 production has never stopped?

 

[Im_a_bud_bud]

I always love it when people slap their own faces, like you're currently doing.

That would make your claims invalid.


This is actually quite funny, as J-10 is a development of the cancelled J-9. Israelis helped China with calculation of data in the mid to late 1980's. Their technicians would come to China, bring back flight data to Israel for analysis, then send it back to China. No component was ever transferred between the two sides. The claim that J-10 is a Lavi copy is really just a funny claim.

Second, only the engine on J-10 is currently purchased from Russia, as China found Russian avionics to be inferior. This should be apparent to you by now considering China ditched the Russian kits for Su-27SK and produced its own J-11 back in 2005. While Russia did provide some help to the J-10 program, China has grown out of that need. Notice how the last engine order for AL-31F were in 2007, yet J-10 production has never stopped?

Really, did China stop purchasing Russian engines as of 2007? Where did you read this? Last time I heard, China is still very dependent on Russian tech

 

[grey boy 2]

Really, did China stop purchasing Russian engines as of 2007? Where did you read this? Last time I heard, China is still very dependent on Russian tech

Hey, my bud bud buddy, are you having a "new vision" like your

beloved country men, talk so called facts without source to back up ?