Female warriors of Lurestan, Iran

[janon]

On the history of Pashtun women I have a very interesting contribution to make:

An officer of the Imperial British army, recorded in his autobiography that Afghan women in the North-West Frontier Province of British India used an execution method involving urine.

Pathan women urinated into the open mouths of British soldiers who were fastened with restraints to the ground and their mouths held open with a stick.

Bugles and a Tiger (Autobiography) - John Masters:

Kyber, British India's North West Frontier: The Story of an Imperial Migraine - Charles Miller:

John Masters: A Regimented Life - John Masters:

The Savage Frontier: A History of the Anglo-Afghan Wars - Donald-Sydney Richards:

Take such stories with a pinch of salt. British writers during colonial times would make up all sorts of fables about people they conquered or were trying to conquer, to portray them as vicious lowlife savages who hadn't been touched by their glorious christian civilization. This was a tool to perpetuate their notion of the "white man's burden". Unless such events are documented in proper historic writings from contemporary times, as opposed to autobiographies and personal accounts of British colonizers, don't attach much weight to it.

Another way to measure credibility would be to find out if Pashtuns from that region have any such written or even orally transmitted stories about this. Does any Pashtun source record such a form of execution? Does it seem likely to you that a Pashtun tribal woman from NWFP/Afghanistan in the 18th century would pull down her pants (or shalwar or whatever) in front of the prisoners and executioners and pee?

Maybe it used to happen, but I will not believe it unless corroboration from local sources is found.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Take such stories with a pinch of salt. British writers during colonial times would make up all sorts of fables about people they conquered or were trying to conquer, to portray them as vicious lowlife savages who hadn't been touched by their glorious christian civilization. This was a tool to perpetuate their notion of the "white man's burden". Unless such events are documented in proper historic writings from contemporary times, as opposed to autobiographies and personal accounts of British colonizers, don't attach much weight to it.

Another way to measure credibility would be to find out if Pashtuns from that region have any such written or even orally transmitted stories about this. Does any Pashtun source record such a form of execution? Does it seem likely to you that a Pashtun tribal woman from NWFP/Afghanistan in the 18th century would pull down her pants (or shalwar or whatever) in front of the prisoners and executioners and pee?

Maybe it used to happen, but I will not believe it unless corroboration from local sources is found.

Lo and behold the champion of Afghan women everywhere. *standing ovation*.

On the merit of the matter, however, I am in agreement with your post. Historians have a cruel way of perpetrating fallacies through their intellectual endeavours by fabricating events and then forever crystallizing them to the annals of time by reproducing them in print. But in the absence of corroborative or contradictory sources, such writings may still have the benefit of doubt hanging in their favour. Local customary sources will have, attached to them, the bias of their version just as the British version has ,attached to it, the bias of its own. You, of course, appear to have sided with the Afghans on this one, why am I not surprised. If these writings had been slanderous to Pakistan you would have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

I have no local sources and, therefore, would appreciate some input. @Marwat Khan Lodhi

 

[janon]

Lo and behold the champion of Afghan women everywhere. *standing ovation*.

On the merit of the matter, however, I am in agreement with your post. Historians have a cruel way of perpetrating fallacies through their intellectual endeavours by fabricating events and then forever crystallizing them to the annals of time by reproducing them in print. But in the absence of corroborative or contradictory sources, such writings may still have the benefit of doubt hanging in their favour. Local customary sources will have, attached to them, the bias of their version just as the British version has ,attached to it, the bias of its own. You, of course, appear to have sided with the Afghans on this one, why am I not surprised. If these writings had been slanderous to Pakistan you would have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

I have no local sources and, therefore, would appreciate some input. @Marwat Khan Lodhi

Except that your post was not an Afgh v/s Pak issue, was it? It was about British colonisers and native Pashtuns. So don't accuse me of taking the Afgh side just to be anti-Pakistan. In fact I had Pak in mind when I wrote that, since I was thinking of the NWFP. If anything, I was taking present day Pak's side.

But truthfully, I don't take sides for the sake of taking it. I prefer to be objective and use logic, and in this case, logic tells me not to believe the accounts of a colonizer regarding "barbarous practices" of the natives, as throughout history, colonizers tended to write such things about the colonized. I only cautioned you to look at both sides of the story before swallowing either one "hook, line and sinker". (Your words.)

And this is true in general of any historic accounts - look for corroborating evidence from the other side as well. I expressed my doubts as to the veracity of the story, and I said I am willing to believe it if similar accounts testifying to those practices existed from other sources as well. If there are Pashtoon writings or poems or songs or oral accounts of anything similar, I will believe it. This is just a matter of simple applied critical thinking.

And please dispense with the sarcastic remarks like that in the first line of your post - I have already been accused of trolling and flaiming, for I know not what on this thread. I cannot take another misrepresentation of intentions. It is sad that members here judge a post on the basis of his or her flag, rather than the content of the post itself.

Let's wait for @Marwat Khan Lodhi to shed some light on whether he has heard anything about such a form of execution.

 

[Targon]

On the history of Pashtun women I have a very interesting contribution to make:

An officer of the Imperial British army, recorded in his autobiography that Afghan women in the North-West Frontier Province of British India used an execution method involving urine.

Pathan women urinated into the open mouths of British soldiers who were fastened with restraints to the ground and their mouths held open with a stick.

Bugles and a Tiger (Autobiography) - John Masters:

Kyber, British India's North West Frontier: The Story of an Imperial Migraine - Charles Miller:

John Masters: A Regimented Life - John Masters:

The Savage Frontier: A History of the Anglo-Afghan Wars - Donald-Sydney Richards:

Thats looks like a femdom subject

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@TheFlyingPretzel
Does afridi wives of taliban of khyber pee into mouths of your captured army jawans?
why dont you ask shahid afridi whether their afridi wives pee into mouths of their enemies?. Beghairat punjabi

 

[Informant]

@TheFlyingPretzel
Does afridi wives of taliban of khyber pee into mouths of your captured army jawans?
why dont you ask shahid afridi whether their afridi wives pee into mouths of their enemies?. Beghairat punjabi

Hahahah

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Except that your post was not an Afgh v/s Pak issue, was it? It was about British colonisers and native Pashtuns. So don't accuse me of taking the Afgh side just to be anti-Pakistan. In fact I had Pak in mind when I wrote that, since I was thinking of the NWFP. If anything, I was taking present day Pak's side.

But truthfully, I don't take sides for the sake of taking it. I prefer to be objective and use logic, and in this case, logic tells me not to believe the accounts of a colonizer regarding "barbarous practices" of the natives, as throughout history, colonizers tended to write such things about the colonized. I only cautioned you to look at both sides of the story before swallowing either one "hook, line and sinker". (Your words.)

And this is true in general of any historic accounts - look for corroborating evidence from the other side as well. I expressed my doubts as to the veracity of the story, and I said I am willing to believe it if similar accounts testifying to those practices existed from other sources as well. If there are Pashtoon writings or poems or songs or oral accounts of anything similar, I will believe it. This is just a matter of simple applied critical thinking.

And please dispense with the sarcastic remarks like that in the first line of your post - I have already been accused of trolling and flaiming, for I know not what on this thread. I cannot take another misrepresentation of intentions. It is sad that members here judge a post on the basis of his or her flag, rather than the content of the post itself.

Let's wait for @Marwat Khan Lodhi to shed some light on whether he has heard anything about such a form of execution.

Where there is an Indian flag involved, Pak v/s Afgh is always an issue, but if your post was bona fide then I am truly grateful for your feelings of commiseration and rectitude for our women. Think about them before you decide to launch Cold Start or dam a Western river flowing through Himachal or Kashmir.

You have my deepest sympathies for the accusation. Although our interaction has been limited and you may have every reason to doubt my intentions as I doubt yours, I shall be an honest acquaintance to you right now. Based on the observations recorded in your previous post, I would suggest you change your flags to something greener or, if not possible, then anything less orangey. Just as a criminal's past record holds sway over the judge in future proceedings against him, your flag misrepresents your post even before you begin to write it. The fault lies not with you or the members here, the fault lies in our tumultuous past.

 

[Targon]

I would happily subject myself to an execution which involves a woman pulling down her pants.

Any visual sources for that tradition ?

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

@TheFlyingPretzel
Does afridi wives of taliban of khyber pee into mouths of your captured army jawans?
why dont you ask shahid afridi whether their afridi wives pee into mouths of their enemies?. Beghairat punjabi

Wow. It takes a cinder to light a pathan on fire. Lol. Calm down, man. It's Ramadhan. So I take it you are in absolute denial of John Masters' record of the events. Fair enough.

Any visual sources for that tradition ?

None that I have, but do help a brother out if you find any.

 

[MOHSENAM]

U guys haven't seen women?. 3 pages troll..

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Wow. It takes a cinder to light a pathan on fire. Lol. Calm down, man. It's Ramadhan. So I take it you are in absolute denial of John Masters' record of the events. Fair enough.



None that I have, but do help a brother out if you find any.

Like i said, why dont you ask from pak army whether their captured jawans were drowned by piss of wives of taliban. As afridis are concerned, why dont you ask shahid afridi whether his wife would urinate into mouth of his enemy?
@EyanKhan @Hyperion @Spring Onion @Abu Zolfiqar you people justify your hate for your bar afghan brothers by claiming that they hate you. Quote a single afghan to me who has insulted afridi women like this paleed islamabadi has done?

 

[Informant]

We don't have these kinds of bullshits in our culture.

Someone's sarcasm radar is off.

Like i said, why dont you ask from pak army whether their captured jawans were drowned by piss of wives of taliban. As afridis are concerned, why dont you ask shahid afridi whether his wife would urinate into mouth of his enemy?
@EyanKhan @Hyperion @Spring Onion @Abu Zolfiqar you people justify your hate for your bar afghan brothers by claiming that they hate you. Quote a single afghan to me who has insulted afridi women like this paleed islamabadi has done?

Monkey d luffey kam jala kar. Ahle biddat hai hum, daro humse.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Like i said, why dont you ask from pak army whether their captured jawans were drowned by piss of wives of taliban. As afridis are concerned, why dont you ask shahid afridi whether his wife would urinate into mouth of his enemy?
@EyanKhan @Hyperion @Spring Onion @Abu Zolfiqar you people justify your hate for your bar afghan brothers by claiming that they hate you. Quote a single afghan to me who has insulted afridi women like this paleed islamabadi has done?

what are you going on about now maran....and why are you bringing my name into this?

and who said I hate Afghans? I only hate individuals/certain vested elements across the Durand Line who want to divide my country at the behest of their masters who want to see an Islamic Republic (a proud, nuclear armed one) divided.

if you want to talk hatred, why you dont talk about the ANA and NDS which has been killing, persecuting and humiliating Pashtuns of Afghanistan? They are the reason why the Afghan Taleban/former Islamic Emirate admin. has become powerful there

 

[gangsta_rap]

Heeeeeeere we go again

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Like i said, why dont you ask from pak army whether their captured jawans were drowned by piss of wives of taliban. As afridis are concerned, why dont you ask shahid afridi whether his wife would urinate into mouth of his enemy?
@EyanKhan @Hyperion @Spring Onion @Abu Zolfiqar you people justify your hate for your bar afghan brothers by claiming that they hate you. Quote a single afghan to me who has insulted afridi women like this paleed islamabadi has done?

This should be interesting. Khan bhai losing his turban because a "paleed Islamabadi" has brought to his attention the historic account of a British officer of the Second Anglo-Afghan war. It's a shame that you have yet to develop the intuition and primal sense to respond to criticism constructively. Brandishing your AK and yelling Afghanistan will not remove these books from the shelf. It will only make you look like a barbaric idiot.