FBI arrests two for being allegedly on ISI payroll

[Solomon2]

Failure to register as what?

As an agent representing a foreign power under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As an agent representing a foreign power under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

See above.

 

[linkinpark]

Which goes back to my point made earlier that:

The FBI is arguing the two individuals received money from the ISI specifically for the purposes of promoting the Kashmir cause - that would mean that they have some sort of credible evidence linking the money received by these individuals to the 'Institution of the ISI' and/or 'individuals employed by the ISI'. I'd like to see what the basis of their case is.

Here is the Department of Justice's release

Two Charged with Conspiring to Act as Unregistered Agents of Pakistani Government

According to the affidavit, a confidential witness told investigators that he participated in a scheme to obscure the origin of money transferred by Pakistan’s ISI to Fai to use as a lobbyist for the KAC in furtherance of Pakistani government interests. The witness explained that the money was transferred to Fai through Ahmad, an American living in Pakistan. A second confidential witness told investigators that the ISI created the KAC to propagandize on behalf of the government of Pakistan with the goal of uniting Kashmir. This witness said ISI’s sponsorship and control of KAC were secret and that ISI had been directing Fai’s activities for the past 25 years.

The affidavit alleges that Fai has acted at the direction of and with the financial support of the Pakistani government for more than 20 years. The affidavit alleges that four Pakistani government handlers have directed Fai’s U.S. activities and that Fai has been in touch with his handlers more than 4,000 times since June 2008. Fai’s handlers have also allegedly communicated with Ahmad regularly.

For example, the affidavit alleges that Fai repeatedly submitted annual KAC strategy reports and budgetary requirements to his Pakistani government handlers for approval. One document entitled “Plan of Action of KAC / Kashmir Center for Fiscal Year 2009” laid out Fai’s intended strategy to secure U.S. Congressional support in order to encourage the Executive Branch to support self-determination in Kashmir; his strategy to build new alliances in the State Department, the National Security Council, the Congress and the Pentagon, and to expand KAC’s media efforts.

 

[VCheng]

Failure to register as what?

More details here:

Criminal Resource Manual 2062 Foreign Agents Registration Act Enforcement

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Here is the Department of Justice's release

Two Charged with Conspiring to Act as Unregistered Agents of Pakistani Government

More details here:

Criminal Resource Manual 2062 Foreign Agents Registration Act Enforcement

I imagine you two have read the link and know the contents, since you both posted it.

So could you answer my question by at least posting the relevant excerpts highlighting the 'evidence/justification' being used to support allegations of funding by the ISI/indivuals in the employ of the ISI.

 

[Solomon2]

So the FBI is certain that these individuals are 'ISI agents'? Do the phone and email conversations refer to them as such? The identity of these individuals will have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt in court.
Emails alone I would be skeptical of, given the ease with which they could be forged, and if Fai denies writing such emails that would certainly cast suspicion on their veracity IMO.

According to the affidavit, a confidential witness told investigators that he participated in a scheme to obscure the origin of money transferred by Pakistan’s ISI to Fai to use as a lobbyist for the KAC in furtherance of Pakistani government interests. The witness explained that the money was transferred to Fai through Ahmad, an American living in Pakistan. A second confidential witness told investigators that the ISI created the KAC to propagandize on behalf of the government of Pakistan with the goal of uniting Kashmir. This witness said ISI’s sponsorship and control of KAC were secret and that ISI had been directing Fai’s activities for the past 25 years.

When questioned by the FBI about these relationships in March 2007, Fai allegedly stated that he had never met anyone who identified himself as being affiliated with the ISI. In March 2010, the Justice Department sent Fai a letter notifying him of his possible obligation to register as a foreign agent with the Justice Department. In his written response to the Justice Department, Fai asserted that neither he nor KAC had ever engaged in any activities for or provided any services to Pakistan or any foreign entity. In a March 2011 interview with the FBI, Fai again denied having any relationship with anyone in the Pakistani government.

The affidavit alleges that Fai has acted at the direction of and with the financial support of the Pakistani government for more than 20 years. The affidavit alleges that four Pakistani government handlers have directed Fai’s U.S. activities and that Fai has been in touch with his handlers more than 4,000 times since June 2008. Fai’s handlers have also allegedly communicated with Ahmad regularly. link

 

[Avatar]

So the FBI is certain that these individuals are 'ISI agents'?

Do the phone and email conversations refer to them as such?

The identity of these individuals will have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt in court.

Emails alone I would be skeptical of, given the ease with which they could be forged, and if Fai denies writing such emails that would certainly cast suspicion on their veracity IMO.

Dont you think you're making nonsensical arguments just for the sake of argument ?

It is known that ISI and CIA have worked together in the past, and both agencies must have allowed the other to learn a little about themselves. The way things were back then, there wasn't much to worry about for the ISI. So, obviously FBI knows what it is doing, they generally dont make arrests until they are absolutely sure. If they did, the numbers would be much bigger than 2.

Why is it so hard for any Pakistani here to believe that this man could have indeed received money from ISI ?

 

[VCheng]

I imagine you two have read the link and know the contents, since you both posted it.

So could you answer my question by at least posting the relevant excerpts highlighting the 'evidence/justification' being used to support allegations of funding by the ISI/indivuals in the employ of the ISI.

Here you go Sir:

The Act requires every agent of a foreign principal, not otherwise exempt, to register with the Department of Justice and file forms outlining its agreements with, income from, and expenditures on behalf of the foreign principal. These forms are public records and must be supplemented every six months.

The Act also requires that informational materials (formerly propaganda) be labeled with a conspicuous statement that the information is disseminated by the agents on behalf of the foreign principal. The agent must provide copies of such materials to the Attorney General.

Any agent testifying before a committee of Congress must furnish the committee with a copy of his most recent registration statement.

The agent must keep records of all his activities and permit the Attorney General to inspect them.

There are a number of exemptions. For example, diplomats and officials of foreign governments, and their staffs, are exempt if properly recognized by the U.S. State Department. Persons whose activities are of a purely commercial nature or solely of a religious, scholastic, academic, scientific or fine arts nature are exempt. Certain soliciting or collecting of funds to be used for medical aid, or for food and clothing to relieve human suffering are also exempt. Lawyers engaged in legal representation of foreign principals in the courts or similar type proceedings, so long as the attorney does not try to influence policy at the behest of his client, are exempt. Any agent who is engaged in lobbying activities and is registered under the Lobbying Disclosure Act is exempt from registration under FARA if the representation is not on behalf of a foreign government or foreign political party.

U.S.C. § 951 provides criminal penalties for anyone, other than a diplomat, to operate as an agent of a foreign government without first notifying the Attorney General, unless the agent is engaged in legal commercial transaction. This statute is aimed at foreign government controlled agents engaged in non-political activities.

An agent must register within ten days of agreeing to become an agent and before performing any activities for the foreign principal. No person shall act as an agent of a foreign principal unless he/she has filed with the Attorney General a true and complete registration statement and supplements. Unless he/she is exempt from registration under the provisions of this Act.

Registration under the Act is accomplished by the filing of an initial statement together with the required exhibits and the filing of a supplemental statement at intervals of 6 months for the duration of the principal-agent relationship requiring registration. No document required to be filed under the Act shall be deemed to have been filed unless it is accompanied by the applicable fee.

An agent must file with the Department of Justice any informational materials distributed on the behalf of the foreign principal to two or more persons in the United States within 48 hours of distribution. The information materials must include a conspicuous statement that additional information is on file with the Department of Justice.

If an agent appears before any committee of Congress to testify in the interests of such foreign principal, they must furnish the committee a copy of the most recent registration statement filed with the Department of Justice.

An agent of a foreign principal registered under this Act must keep and preserve while he is an agent of a foreign principal such books of account and other records with respect to all his activities, the disclosure of which is required under the provisions of this Act, in accordance with such business and accounting practices. An agent of a foreign principal must keep and preserve all records for a period of three years following the termination of such status. These books and records shall be open at all reasonable time to the inspection of any officials charged with the enforcement of this Act. It shall be unlawful for any person willfully to conceal, destroy, obliterate, mutilate, or falsify, or to attempt to conceal, destroy, obliterate, mutilate, or falsify, or to cause to be concealed, destroyed, obliterated, mutilated, or falsified, any books or records required to be kept under the provisions of this Act.

Obligations of an Agent for a Foreign Principal

An agent must register within ten days of agreeing to become an agent and before performing any activities for the foreign principal. No person shall act as an agent of a foreign principal unless he/she has filed with the Attorney General a true and complete registration statement and supplements. Unless he/she is exempt from registration under the provisions of this Act.

Registration under the Act is accomplished by the filing of an initial statement together with the required exhibits and the filing of a supplemental statement at intervals of 6 months for the duration of the principal-agent relationship requiring registration. No document required to be filed under the Act shall be deemed to have been filed unless it is accompanied by the applicable fee.

An agent must file with the Department of Justice any informational materials distributed on the behalf of the foreign principal to two or more persons in the United States within 48 hours of distribution. The information materials must include a conspicuous statement that additional information is on file with the Department of Justice.

If an agent appears before any committee of Congress to testify in the interests of such foreign principal, they must furnish the committee a copy of the most recent registration statement filed with the Department of Justice.

An agent of a foreign principal registered under this Act must keep and preserve while he is an agent of a foreign principal such books of account and other records with respect to all his activities, the disclosure of which is required under the provisions of this Act, in accordance with such business and accounting practices. An agent of a foreign principal must keep and preserve all records for a period of three years following the termination of such status. These books and records shall be open at all reasonable time to the inspection of any officials charged with the enforcement of this Act. It shall be unlawful for any person willfully to conceal, destroy, obliterate, mutilate, or falsify, or to attempt to conceal, destroy, obliterate, mutilate, or falsify, or to cause to be concealed, destroyed, obliterated, mutilated, or falsified, any books or records required to be kept under the provisions of this Act.

Enforcement and Penalties

Any person who willfully violates any provisions of this Act or any regulations thereunder, or in any registration statement or supplement thereto or in any other documents filed with or furnished to the Attorney General under the provisions of this Act willfully makes a false statement of a material fact or willfully omits any material fact required to be stated therein or willfully omits a material fact or a copy of a material document necessary to make the statements therein and the copies of documents furnished therewith not misleading, shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not more than five years. For some offenses the punishment shall be a fine of not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than six months, or both.

Any alien who shall be convicted of a violation of, or a conspiracy to violate, any provisions of this Act or any regulation thereunder shall be subject to deportation.

If the Attorney General determines that a registration does not comply with the requirements of this Act or the regulations issued thereunder, the Registration Unit shall notify the registrant in writing, specifying in what respects the statement is deficient. It shall be unlawful for any person to act as an agent of a foreign principal at any time ten days or more after receipt of such notification without filing an amended registration statement in full compliance with the requirements of this Act and the regulations issued thereunder.

Failure to file any such registration statement or supplements thereto as is required by the Act shall be considered a continuing offense for as long as such failure exists, notwithstanding any statute of limitation or other statute to the contrary.

A public official of the United States in the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government or in any agency of the United States, including the District of Columbia, is or acts as an agent of a foreign principal required to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938 or a lobbyist required to register under the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995 in connection with the representation of a foreign entity, as defined in section 3(6) of that Act, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned for not more than two years, or both.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

According to the affidavit, a confidential witness told investigators that he participated in a scheme to obscure the origin of money transferred by Pakistan’s ISI to Fai to use as a lobbyist for the KAC in furtherance of Pakistani government interests. The witness explained that the money was transferred to Fai through Ahmad, an American living in Pakistan. A second confidential witness told investigators that the ISI created the KAC to propagandize on behalf of the government of Pakistan with the goal of uniting Kashmir. This witness said ISI’s sponsorship and control of KAC were secret and that ISI had been directing Fai’s activities for the past 25 years.

'He said she said' - claims and allegations from witnesses will have to be substantiated with credible evidence showing the source of funds as being the ISI/individuals in the pay of the ISI.

The affidavit alleges that Fai has acted at the direction of and with the financial support of the Pakistani government for more than 20 years. The affidavit alleges that four Pakistani government handlers have directed Fai’s U.S. activities and that Fai has been in touch with his handlers more than 4,000 times since June 2008. Fai’s handlers have also allegedly communicated with Ahmad regularly.

For example, the affidavit alleges that Fai repeatedly submitted annual KAC strategy reports and budgetary requirements to his Pakistani government handlers for approval. One document entitled “Plan of Action of KAC / Kashmir Center for Fiscal Year 2009” laid out Fai’s intended strategy to secure U.S. Congressional support in order to encourage the Executive Branch to support self-determination in Kashmir; his strategy to build new alliances in the State Department, the National Security Council, the Congress and the Pentagon, and to expand KAC’s media efforts.

Why does the affadavit shift to 'government handlers' here instead of 'ISI agents'? Which is it? Government of Pakistan or the ISI?

Secondly, same burden of proof - credible evidence illustrating the source of funds as being the GoP and/or ISI, for the specific purpose of influencing public officials in the US. Whether or not these individuals operated legitemate organizations in Pakistan that received GoP grants for their intended purposes would also be an issue IMO.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dont you think you're making nonsensical arguments just for the sake of argument ?

No - these are legitemate arguments and questions. The accuser has to prove their case in court.

It is known that ISI and CIA have worked together in the past, and both agencies must have allowed the other to learn a little about themselves. The way things were back then, there wasn't much to worry about for the ISI. So, obviously FBI knows what it is doing, they generally dont make arrests until they are absolutely sure. If they did, the numbers would be much bigger than 2.

Why is it so hard for any Pakistani here to believe that this man could have indeed received money from ISI ?

Why is so easy for you to believe the man could have received money from the ISI? Just because the ISI and CIA worked together does not remove the burden of proof from the accuser.

The arguments I made are legitemate, and if you disagree, offer a legitemate and rational argument supporting your own POV.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The original desire was a democratic vote for Kashmir to choose either Pakistan or India. The people the ISI has been murdering want independence to be an option as well. Whether you consider adding that option to account for the separate developments of the past sixty years to be just or not, that cannot justify Pakistani efforts to oppress and kill Kashmiris for political purposes.

you seem to be exposing some form of selective memory, especially given the fact that Kashmiris themselves view india as an aggressor --not the ISI.

the reasons for that are already obvious:

Thousands lost in Kashmir mass graves | Amnesty International

So far, only Pro Publica found an official willing to comment on the matter. So this isn't a case of using Mr. Fai as some kind of scapegoat; officials are keeping quiet to assure a successful conviction.

dont be naiive

It has already had an effect upon how the Kashmiri struggle is seen in Washington.

simply because they view it as a ''Muslim'' struggle and simply because they prefer to have the conflict continue....Obama himself has worn many hats on this issue but now is forced to remain silent, simply because they want to please the indians (not because they like them or want their friendship, but because they want to use them against China)

Foreign governments use REGISTERED lobbyists and the GoP knows the score. Obviously they tried to conceal their connection because they knew the KAC would immediately be portrayed as a Pakistani puppet.

whatever it is, I think the fact that the group operated for over 20 years means that they have been seen as a legitimate ''PR'' and ''voice'' for the Kashmir issue...the arrest of Mr. Fai is merely symbollic in nature. He is being used as a scapegoat by Washington simply as a way to ''get back'' at Pakistan for its non-compliance on certain fronts.

Washington only promotes democracy and human rights if/when it is most convenient. It wasnt ''convenient'' in the late 2000s when they tried warming up to Gaddafi; it wouldnt have been convenient in Iraq if the country wasnt sitting on massive reserves of oil.....condemning Syria and Iraq and then remaining silent on Bahrain. It's all simply about timing and convenience.

best way to win indian affection is to attempt to snub Pakistan....Has no affect on Pakistan, other than the fact that it may win you further non-compliance in the future (regardless of whether there's a Zardari in place or not)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Here you go Sir:

I am sorry, but which part of all those excerpts actually addresses my question regarding information about the evidence being used by the FBI to support its allegations against these individuals?

As far as I can tell, the excerpts merely reiterate the allegations in detail, rather than provide any insight into the kind of evidence being used to support the allegations. LP did understand my question and his excerpts did cover my question.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh, the irony is killing me !

Although the whole of India has never existed as one country, the region has always been known as India unlike East and West Pakistan which never existed until the 1900's except for a poet's imagination.

'Asia' has also existed under 'one name' - that does not make all of Asia 'a nation'.

 

[linkinpark]

'He said she said' - claims and allegations from witnesses will have to be substantiated with credible evidence showing the source of funds as being the ISI/individuals in the pay of the ISI.



Why does the affadavit shift to 'government handlers' here instead of 'ISI agents'? Which is it? Government of Pakistan or the ISI?

Secondly, same burden of proof - credible evidence illustrating the source of funds as being the GoP and/or ISI, for the specific purpose of influencing public officials in the US. Whether or not these individuals operated legitemate organizations in Pakistan that received GoP grants for their intended purposes would also be an issue IMO.

These are charges made against Fai and Ahmed based on FBI investigation into financial dealings and interceptions. The proof and witnesses will be presented during the trial. Till then we will hear everything through leaks trickling out from US govt..

The 45 page criminal complaint (or affidavit) is here on scribd.

Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai Affidavit

It names the 4 ISI handlers

Fai's primary supervisor within the ISI as Brigadier Javeed Aziz, who also goes by the nickname ''Rathore'' and three others, including Touqeer Mehmood Butt, Sohail Mahmood, and an individual nicknamed ''Abdullah.'

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

These are charges made against Fai and Ahmed based on FBI investigation into financial dealings and interceptions. The proof and witnesses will be presented during the trial. Till then we will hear everything through leaks trickling out from US govt..

The 45 page criminal complaint (or affidavit) is here on scribd.

Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai Affidavit

It names the 4 ISI handlers

Fai's primary supervisor within the ISI as Brigadier Javeed Aziz, who also goes by the nickname ''Rathore'' and three others, including Touqeer Mehmood Butt, Sohail Mahmood, and an individual nicknamed ''Abdullah.'

Thats fine, we can wait for the trial, but that also applies to the Indians and Americans jumping up and down screaming the ISI and these two individuals are guilty of the allegations being made.