FBI arrests two for being allegedly on ISI payroll

[Capt.Popeye]

There are two things in this action initiated by the Americans; the timing and the nature of the action.

The timing can be seen in the context of the screwed up relationship between the Americans and GoP; specifically between the American security establishment and the paksitani "deep state" institutions. Even Shuja Pasha's post haste visit to washington and Langley did'nt forestall that.

But more interesting is the nature of the action. The move by the Americans severely degrades and devalues the Paksitani stand on the Jammu & Kashmir issue and hits at its credibilty. That is a matter for some condideration.

 

[karan.1970]

A 'separate signatory' does not equate to 'separate nation'. Given that this entity was not even an independent and sovereign 'country', all it amounts to is the British essentially trying to get an extra vote in the UN.



Your link takes me nowhere ... and I do not remember AZ calling Pakistan 'a part of India, similar to Kashmir or Bangladesh'.

I always thought UNO stands for United NATIONS organization. But whatever.. Any other signatories that were not countries in themselves?? Or may be you are privy to the internal reasoning of British on the subject and why the rest of the countries went along.

btw, in 1945 India was accorded full membership as well of the UN. Was that also a vote game by the British?? However I do remember some references of commitments made by British to the then nation of India towards self rule in exchange for support during World War II. May be the membership and being a signatory to 1942 declaration had something to do with that..

My link should take you to the post in which has the quote from Mr Zolfiquar's post that says "Pakistan never was part of india; india itself wasnt even a country until 1947" . The original post of AZ though has been deleted and a member has been banned probably for replying to it..

 

[karan.1970]

There are two things in this action initiated by the Americans; the timing and the nature of the action.

The timing can be seen in the context of the screwed up relationship between the Americans and GoP; specifically between the American security establishment and the paksitani "deep state" institutions. Even Shuja Pasha's post haste visit to washington and Langley did'nt forestall that.

But more interesting is the nature of the action. The move by the Americans severely degrades and devalues the Paksitani stand on the Jammu & Kashmir issue and hits at its credibilty. That is a matter for some condideration.

Interesting.. What this as well as a similar action building up in UK will do is degrade the credibility of Kashmiri groups across the world. Even the ones which are truly Kashmiri (without any Pakistani linkages) will be looked upon with different degrees of suspicion wrt their association with Pak. I am personally associated with one such group in Canada, and they are extremely bummed about it. In their view, if this turns out to be true, it will be 3rd big blunder by Pakistan towards the Kashmiri cause. The 1st 2 being the invasion of 1947 and Kargil

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

There are two things in this action initiated by the Americans; the timing and the nature of the action.

The timing can be seen in the context of the screwed up relationship between the Americans and GoP; specifically between the American security establishment and the paksitani "deep state" institutions. Even Shuja Pasha's post haste visit to washington and Langley did'nt forestall that.

But more interesting is the nature of the action. The move by the Americans severely degrades and devalues the Paksitani stand on the Jammu & Kashmir issue and hits at its credibilty. That is a matter for some condideration.

when push comes to shove, they wanted to kill 2 birds with one stone


a.) punish Pakistan for its non-compliance (as well as the kicking out of CIA operatives, and certain ''diplomats'' with shady credentials)

b.) please india during a recent visit of Her Royal Thigh-ness (Ms. Clinton) to hindstan


it has nothing to do with Stances on Kashmir issue itself.....and as i've said repeatedly, the KAC (being well established by now in Washington DC) is known not to be a pro-militant group or have ties to terrorism; therefore it would be reasonable to assume that its operations will go on unabated.


how many of you want to make a bet right now....My current location is literally a 25 min walk to their K-street office. I have a feeling that I can walk over there, snap some photos of their office (with people in it).

no red tape; no ''sir you have to leave from the premises'' type thing. It'll be a fun 'adventure'

 

[jha]

BTW Scotland Yard has already started the investigation..I love the timing..
;

 

[jha]

KAC (being well established by now in Washington DC) is known not to be a pro-militant group or have ties to terrorism; therefore it would be reasonable to assume that its operations will go on unabated

Ahem Ahem..WAS known not to be a pro-militant group....Now that ties with ISI are coming out and source of funding is known, I am a little less optimistic about the future of KAC..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Ahem Ahem..WAS known not to be a pro-militant group....Now that ties with ISI are coming out and source of funding is known, I am a little less optimistic about the future of KAC..

well i guess we'll have to wait and see....

ISI itself is an intelligence agency, not a militant group.....proving any ties, nevertheless, between a group like KAC (which receives donations from all over the world) and the ISI would not be so easy ---if it really were by the ISI.

these are just politically motivated and cutely-timed things.....wont cause any major paradigm shift, though I do think Pakistan should stand by and support Mr. Fai in any way it can ---as it would be the most decent thing to do.

 

[jha]

ISI itself is an intelligence agency, not a militant group.....proving any ties, nevertheless, between a group like KAC (which receives donations from all over the world) and the ISI would not be so easy ---if it really were by the ISI.

Doesn't matter what ISI claims itself to be...How americans perceive it is what matters..Last heard they hadn't mentioned ISI in good terms ..
BTW just 4000 calls and mails are being reported to be recorded..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

interestingly enough, while Fai and one of his Kashmiri associates (Dr Zaheer Ahmed) have been taken down by the Justice department, the Obama administration has not moved against at least four ALLEGED ISI handlers named in the FBI affidavit.

In fact, they are not even listed as defendants in the Fai case even though the affidavit alleges they ''broke U.S laws with hawala transactions in which they repaid Pakistani-Americans who 'contributed' to Fai’s KAC in Pakistan, while enabling them claim tax deductions in U.S for donating to an NGO.''

The Pakistani government itself has so far escaped censure even though the FBI affidavit implicates Islamabad as well.


definitely should be interesting to follow; though it's only the indian ''analysts'' who live a fool's dream by thinking this has any effect on the Kashmiri Intifada and the aspirations or morale of Kashmiri people.

Would be interesting to get the views of Kashmiris themselves; many top influential seperatists in iOK have already begun peaceful demonstrations against the arrests.

 

[karan.1970]

interestingly enough, while Fai and one of his Kashmiri associates (Dr Zaheer Ahmed) have been taken down by the Justice department, the Obama administration has not moved against at least four ALLEGED ISI handlers named in the FBI affidavit.

In fact, they are not even listed as defendants in the Fai case even though the affidavit alleges they ''broke U.S laws with hawala transactions in which they repaid Pakistani-Americans who 'contributed' to Fai’s KAC in Pakistan, while enabling them claim tax deductions in U.S for donating to an NGO.''

The Pakistani government itself has so far escaped censure even though the FBI affidavit implicates Islamabad as well.


definitely should be interesting to follow; though it's only the indian ''analysts'' who live a fool's dream by thinking this has any effect on the Kashmiri Intifada and the aspirations or morale of Kashmiri people.

Would be interesting to get the views of Kashmiris themselves; many top influential seperatists in iOK have already begun peaceful demonstrations against the arrests.

I agree somewhat with you that the impact on Fai will not be significant. The charges are pretty simple. He donated money from Pakistan govt to the political system of USA without declaring it. Maximum punishment probably will be a wrap on the knuckles.

However, IF THE CHARGES STICK (its a big if), then the seed of suspicion against every such organization would have been sown around its credibility and purity of its motives when it talks of Kashmir.

Personally I expect a major concession from Pakistan towards USA which will then allow this to be swept under the carpet

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well the only ''concession'' they can really hope for is Pakistan paying some back-taxes.....

i dont think that as long as other PROVEN govt. backed PR firms of other nations exists in DC metropolitan area or anywhere else nationally --Pakistan should be answerable to any aspect of this. We should, out of decency and principle, stand up for and support Mr. Fai though. He already has a defence team in place, I believe.

 

[karan.1970]

well the only ''concession'' they can really hope for is Pakistan paying some back-taxes.....

i dont think that as long as other PROVEN govt. backed PR firms of other nations exists in DC metropolitan area or anywhere else nationally --Pakistan should be answerable to any aspect of this. We should, out of decency and principle, stand up for and support Mr. Fai though. He already has a defence team in place, I believe.

Abu, its not the question of Other countries being allowed and Pak not. Its the issue of American Law. The source of donations to the Political parties in the USA needs to be declared at the time of donation. Incorrect declaration is considered fraudulent. And thats what Fai is being charged with. As I said, the personal penalty wont be significant. But it charges are proven, it will cause doubts on the affiliations of similar Kashmiri groups all over the world.

btw Where did the question of taxes come in from??

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Abu, its not the question of Other countries being allowed and Pak not. Its the issue of American Law. The source of donations to the Political parties in the USA needs to be declared at the time of donation. Incorrect declaration is considered fraudulent. And thats what Fai is being charged with. As I said, the personal penalty wont be significant. But it charges are proven, it will cause doubts on the affiliations of similar Kashmiri groups all over the world.

btw Where did the question of taxes come in from??

i believe ''campaign'' or ''donor money'' is still liable to be declared to the IRS, i could be wrong though

so apart from possesion of non-declared (and perhaps non-taxed) money, i dont see how they can ''frame'' Mr. Fai for that. It certaintly doesnt constitute a much greater and more serious charge (espionage)

it certainly wont put any pressure on ISI or other alleged elements mentioned in affidavit. REGARDLESS of whether its true or not, they can easily just decline to comment and brush if off --the way they do to other nonsense going around.

 

[karan.1970]

i believe ''campaign'' or ''donor money'' is still liable to be declared to the IRS, i could be wrong though

so apart from possesion of non-declared (and perhaps non-taxed) money, i dont see how they can ''frame'' Mr. Fai for that. It certaintly doesnt constitute a much greater and more serious charge (espionage)

it certainly wont put any pressure on ISI or other alleged elements mentioned in affidavit. REGARDLESS of whether its true or not, they can easily just decline to comment and brush if off --the way they do to other nonsense going around.

I dont think espionage is a charge he is being charged with. Too far fetched and impossible to stick.. This is what I believe is the case..

The said gentleman since long has been receiving help from Pakistan in terms of money, contacts, etc etc.. I am sure the same has been known to the American Govt as well. After all he is not a super spy in a 007 movie working under cover. However, at this time, USA govt has chosen to expose the so far no to publicized relationship of this person with Pakistan and ISI and have shown(not yet proven but seems it will be easily) the transfer of money from Pakistan to this American citizen championing the cause of Kashmir.

Now since this gentleman in question has been a well respected Kashmiri activist with a long track record, what this does, is that it creates an aura of suspicion around all such organizations in USA and Europe who are supposed to be championing the Kashmiri cause around their purity of motives. The question in people's mind would now be whether these are champions of Kashmiri cause or Pakistani cause.

Apart from that I dont see any major impact of Fai only, let alone ISI or Pakistani establishment

 

[Elmo]

could you people stay on topic rather than taking pot shots at each other.