Fauji Duffers hain ~ Asma Jahangir

[KALKI]

Yahya Khan did not punish Bhutto, & Zia ul Haq had not committed any crimes he could be tried for when he hanged Bhutto. I don't know where you are getting your information from, or why you're making illogical claims. Most Pakistanis think Zia ul Haq was a terrible ruler that brought about many of the problems Pakistan faces today. No offense, but your argument lacks the basic sense of knowledge, & is full of logical fallacies devoid of the reality of the situation.

Bilal, the only thing my argument is devoid of is the enigmatic charm of lying that your argument spells.

YOUR FAUJ IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALMOST ALL OF YOUR PROBLEMS.

The thing is, though, that you find it easier to lie til you go blue and defend that fauj instead of rectifying it.

 

[53fd]

Bilal, the only thing my argument is devoid of is the enigmatic charm of lying that your argument spells.

YOUR FAUJ IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALMOST ALL OF YOUR PROBLEMS.

The thing is, though, that you find it easier to lie til you go blue and defend that fauj instead of rectifying it.

I suggest you read Post # 48 carefully, especially the ending part of the second paragraph. I agree that the Army needs to reform itself, & review its policies for the region as a whole, & also inside the country. There are more than enough people inside Pakistan that criticize the Army, just read the articles on Dawn or any other Pakistani paper.

 

[KALKI]

I suggest you read Post # 48 carefully, especially the ending part of the second paragraph. I agree that the Army needs to reform itself, & review its policies for the region as a whole, & also inside the country. There are more than enough people inside Pakistan that criticize the Army, just read the articles on Dawn or any other Pakistani paper.

Ahaa!

So there are Pakistanis in full or even partial support of Asma Jahangir.

...and yet they are not protesting like the peoples in the Middle East?

WHY?

Now YOU tell me.

 

[American Pakistani]

Ahaa!

So there are Pakistanis in full or even partial support of Asma Jahangir.

...and yet they are not protesting like the peoples in the Middle East?

WHY?

Now YOU tell me.

So why are you interested for a mess like middle east in our country?

For your utter disappointment, Pakistani peoples love their army & ISI guys, it is just we are annoyed & want clear & realistic answeres from top elites like Kayani & Pasha that how Pakistan is having back to back failures since beggining of May during their tenure.

 

[KALKI]

So why are you interested for a mess like middle east in our country?

For your utter disappointment, Pakistani peoples love their army & ISI guys, it is just we are annoyed & want clear & realistic answeres from top elites like Kayani & Pasha that how Pakistan is having back to back failures since beggining of May during their tenure.

That's how you reply when you jump in between a discussion with nothing but bare emotions and lies.

Carry on punter...

 

[LadyGaga]

Just like Indians don't like to accept facts on other fora, some pakistanis will not accept asma jahangir's truth. But if you follow a cross section of the debate going on in Pakistan currently, majority people view the army and ISI as having failed in securing the country from US attacks, followed by Abottabad , PNS Mehran episode. I have also heard of there being infiltration amongst naval rank cadres in the PNS Mehran base.This discovery led to the isolation of those elements. Then negotiations started between the TTP and the establishment about what has to be done with these people. The TTP wanted them to be re-instated. As a pre-cursor they bombed the naval buses. Later the Mehran operation happened. This story has been discussed on a few pakistani channels too ( this may nor may not be true). So fingers are being pointed not just by Asma Jahangir, but by a host of people. Except Hamid Gul, there is nobody who has vociferously defended the army and its allied elements. Hence i think the denial is only limited to this forum, obviously because Pakistanis will not like to discredit their Army in public fora.

 

[American Pakistani]

That's how you reply when you jump in between a discussion with nothing but bare emotions and lies.

Carry on punter...

That's how you got frustrated when you got no answere.

BTW these are true facts,you can call it emotions,lies etc etc whatever makes you satisfy.

 

[KALKI]

That's how you got frustrated when you got no answere.

BTW these are true facts,you can call it emotions,lies etc etc whatever makes you satisfy.

Sorry me no have answer. You answer have.

Me right proved said I when solve a problem to, identify you to need exists problem a that.

 

[53fd]

Ahaa!

So there are Pakistanis in full or even partial support of Asma Jahangir.

...and yet they are not protesting like the peoples in the Middle East?

WHY?

Now YOU tell me.

Maybe because they don't want Pakistan to fall into anarchy like Libya, Egypt, Bahrain & other countries did in the name of a revolution?

 

[KALKI]

Maybe because they don't want Pakistan to fall into anarchy like Libya, Egypt, Bahrain & other countries did in the name of a revolution?

Bilal, it's happening anyways.

...and it's not that Pakistanis are not protesting against the fauj that explains why Pakistan is NOT falling into anarchy.

It's just that Pakistanis are not protesting against the fauj that explains why Pakistan is falling into anarchy.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

YOUR FAUJ IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALMOST ALL OF YOUR PROBLEMS.

The thing is, though, that you find it easier to lie til you go blue and defend that fauj instead of rectifying it.

The root cause of any democracy to fail is that the democratic institutions have been, along the years, been allowed to fail and finally perish.

When democratic institutions crumble, to prevent anarchy, the military intervenes and brings some sort of an order into society and hence is seen as a saviour. Average citizens are not amenable to chaotic and more importantly, unpredictable conditions in their daily lives.

The Army, no matter which Army of the world, does not tolerate distractions to the Aim. The build structures that are akin to totalitarianism, but keep a façade of democracy so as to be acceptable to the international community. They because of their way of functioning, disable all democratic institutions.

Democratic institutions slowly return, but it takes time.

One can check this out with any country that has had a military coup.

The current anger in Pakistan that you notice even on this thread after the OBL raid, is because, as it appears on this forum, people have very little faith in their government and now that even the institutions that they have had some faith in i.e. the Army, Navy and Sir Force and the ISI, are appearing to have failed, there is serious consternation.

That is why Jehangir is ferocious on one hand with a point of view, and then there are the others who are on the other side of the opinion spectrum i.e. the Armed Forces are doing well and should not be criticised, because these people find it very frightening to believe that the last bastion of hope is not quite delivering!

I presume in such a time of national 'crisis', if one can call it so for the want of a better word, one should not get too worked up, if people of that country show anger from either side of the opinion spectrum.

I am sure any citizen of any country placed in Pakistan's condition, would do the same.

 

[KALKI]

The root cause of any democracy to fail is that the democratic institutions have been, along the years, been allowed to fail and finally perish.

When democratic institutions crumble, to prevent anarchy, the military intervenes and brings some sort of an order into society and hence is seen as a saviour. Average citizens are not amenable to chaotic and more importantly, unpredictable conditions in their daily lives.

The Army, no matter which Army of the world, does not tolerate distractions to the Aim. The build structures that are akin to totalitarianism, but keep a façade of democracy so as to be acceptable to the international community. They because of their way of functioning, disable all democratic institutions.

Democratic institutions slowly return, but it takes time.

One can check this out with any country that has had a military coup.

Fauj did not mess things up because democracy in Pakistan failed.

Democracy in Pakistan, and evidently all other systems too, failed because fauj messed things up.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Fauj did not mess things up because democracy in Pakistan failed.

Democracy in Pakistan, and evidently all other systems too, failed because fauj messed things up.

Have you read Pakistan's history?

Start with the travail of democracy from the days of Liaquat Ali and then his assassination and thence beyond with Lt Col Iskander Mirza, who was the Defence Secretary and how the democratic systems functioned to fail and encouraged thereafter the game of see saw of between the military and the civilian governments.

The mess that the Army created started in an environment when the democratic institutions were mere cosmetic, as they are now. The Army's negative role started with the abdication of governance by Yahyah Khan, where certain powerful satraps took over indirectly the fate of Pakistan, leading to the liberation of Bangladesh and then Zia hammered the last nail in the coffin, so to say, by giving a free hand to fundamentalism that is thereafter plaguing the world and more so, Pakistan, as they claim.

Instead of being angry with Pakistani posters, understand their perplexity to understand the situation.

Do state what you must, but try to do it gently.

 

[KALKI]

Have you read Pakistan's history?

Start with the travail of democracy from the days of Liaquat Ali and then his assassination and thence beyond with Lt Col Iskander Mirza, who was the Defence Secretary and how the democratic systems functioned to fail and encouraged thereafter the game of see saw of between the military and the civilian governments.

The mess that the Army created started in an environment when the democratic institutions were mere cosmetic, as they are now. The Army's negative role started with the abdication of governance by Yahyah Khan, where certain powerful satraps took over indirectly the fate of Pakistan, leading to the liberation of Bangladesh and then Zia hammered the last nail in the coffin, so to say, by giving a free hand to fundamentalism that is thereafter plaguing the world and more so, Pakistan, as they claim.

Instead of being angry with Pakistani posters, understand their perplexity to understand the situation.

Do state what you must, but try to do it gently.

Democracies, the world over, have failed at one time or another.

But democracies do tend to make a course correction somewhere in between.

...If only Pakistani fauj had allowed their democracy to also go for a course correction.