Fauji Duffers hain ~ Asma Jahangir

[Hammy007]

she likes to get 'nailed' by an animal talk abt her urges

 

[IrfanH]

For the love of your own country just listen to what she is saying. She is right. I'm from a military family myself, in fact I'm the son of a retired 1-star but I say she is right. The military has done almost everything in our history except for soldiering. What kind of military do we have that four helicopters were able to fly for 2 hours inside our territory. And please don't give me that stealth helicopter story, I have worked on radars for AWC and know a lot about radars. Low RCS does not mean no RCS. What about ground forces' response to the incursion? How the hell were only six terrorists able to hold out for 12 hours against the SSG at Mehran? I have worked at Mehran base for AWC. It breaks my heart to say this but our forces are only good for running bakeries, marriage halls, cement factories and other stuff, not for real soldiering.

 

[53fd]

While I respect her for what she has done for Pakistan, I don't really agree with her. While the Pakistan Army has brought failures to the nation before, it was not responsible for Bangladesh splitting in 1971. The reason why Bangladesh split from Pakistan was because it was not a feasible model having East & West Pakistan being separated by 2000 miles of hostile territory in the middle. This unfeasible model resulted in uneven growth between the East & the West, which was the primary reason for the events of 1971. She also doesn't understand that Islam was not primarily used by the Army as a means of terrorism, but primarily as a use of homogenization, as national identity, to unite ethnicities & cultural groups that had nothing to do with each other. This is the inherent strength that Pakistan has, which is why it has not fallen into anarchy like the states in the Middle East & Africa have today with their 'revolutions'. This policy is also the reason why Pakistan gets staunch support from the Middle East, USA in the past, Bangladesh & many other Muslim nations.

There is a reason why the Pakistan Army is still favored by most Pakistanis: the periods of the highest levels of growth & development came in Ayub Khan & Musharraf's time, after almost being bankrupted by Nawaz Sharif's rule. While all of us would like the Army to focus on their 'primary responsibilities', are not helped by the fact that the democratic system in Pakistan is inept & corrupt. It isn't even a democratic system. I agree that the Army needs to come up with better defense mechanisms inside the country, & needs to improve the internal security of the country. The Army also needs to sort out its "engagements in the South Asian region", as well as within the country. They are working towards that. But dismissing the most competent & reliable body in the country like Asma Jahangir did was a bit obtuse in my opinion, even though I respect her.

 

[KALKI]

Pakistan Army was not responsible for Bangladesh splitting in 1971.

 

[53fd]

You're not looking at the source of the problem. You don't know where the root of the problem is. The discontent in East Pakistan was prevalent from 1947 onwards, not a few years before 1971.

 

[Leader]

then what should we call a fauji, intellectual ?

 

[KALKI]

You're not looking at the source of the problem. You don't know where the root of the problem is. The discontent in East Pakistan was prevalent from 1947 onwards, not a few years before 1971.

...and what aggravated the problem in 1971 so much so that the East Pakistanis chose to break away?

Now please don't say it was India.

It was something far more closer to you at home.

 

[53fd]

...and what aggravated the problem in 1971 so much so that the East Pakistanis chose to break away?

Now please don't say it was India.

It was something far more closer to you at home.

It wasn't India, although India did aggravate the situation in its favor by arming & training the Mukti Bahini in East Pakistan. The real reason was the uneven development between the West & the East, & that was because it was an unfeasible model of having the East & the West separated by 2000 miles of hostile territory after 1947.

 

[KALKI]

It wasn't India, although India did aggravate the situation in its favor. The real reason was the uneven development between the West & the East, & that was because it was an unfeasible model of having the East & the West separated by 2000 miles of hostile territory after 1947.

Anger due to lack of development was there, no doubt.

I'm asking what triggered the events of 1971?

 

[53fd]

Anger due to lack of development was there, no doubt.

I'm asking what triggered the events of 1971?

All the events trickling down from 1947 onwards triggered 1971.

Bhutto was as much to blame as the Khan was for the fiasco, but the election itself was not the reason why 1971 happened. All the events trickling down from 1947 onwards triggered 1971.

 

[Developereo]

Nobody wants to be ruled by the army but, given Pakistan's civilian political scene, the military is the lesser of two evils. Pakistan's biggest misfortune is that the civilian politics is utterly dominated by the feudals who are inept, corrupt, grossly unqualified to run anything, and selfish to the point of being downright unpatriotic.

I was just talking to a friend who is visiting Pakistan and, after three weeks in Karachi, she hasn't even seen the TV once because the electricity is out 15 hours a day. People in Africa have a better standard of living. If this is what civilian rule brings, don't be surprised when people welcome the army to power.

 

[KALKI]

All the events trickling down from 1947 onwards triggered 1971. Bhutto was as much to blame as the Khan was for the fiasco.

So the (Yahya)Khan was to blame, at least as much as if not more than Bhutto, right?

and what happened then?

Bhutto was hanged by the fauj itself while the fauj escaped unscathed.

Bilal, there's a reason why people say that Pakistan does not have the army, it's the army that has Pakistan.

 

[53fd]

So the (Yahya)Khan was to blame, at least as much as if not more than Bhutto, right?

and what happened then?

Bhutto was hanged by the fauj itself while the fauj escaped unscathed.

Bilal, there's a reason why people say that Pakistan does not have the army, it's the army that has Pakistan.

Bhutto was not hanged for the East splitting away from West Pakistan, but because Bhutto was accused of conspiring to murder the politician Ahmed Raza Kasuri in 1974. He was tried, & found guilty in court.

 

[KALKI]

Bhutto was not hanged for the East splitting away from West Pakistan

I know that.

The point is, one criminal punished another criminal and the former escaped unscathed with all the blessings of the Pakistani people still being showered upon him (them, actually).

That's why I said, you need to first realise that there IS a problem.

 

[53fd]

I know that.

The point is, one criminal punished another criminal and the former escaped unscathed with all the blessings of the Pakistani people still being showered upon him (them, actually).

That's why I said, you need to first realise that there IS a problem.

Yahya Khan did not punish Bhutto, & Zia ul Haq had not committed any crimes he could be tried for when he hanged Bhutto. I don't know where you are getting your information from, or why you're making illogical claims. Most Pakistanis think Zia ul Haq was a terrible ruler that brought about many of the problems Pakistan faces today. No offense, but your argument lacks the basic sense of knowledge, & is full of logical fallacies devoid of the reality of the situation.