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farmer commit suicide in AAP ralley live on TV

I agree with you that farmers should have insurance. Preferably private insurance and farmers should pay the insurance premiums themselves. Why this has not been done so far is I guess the same reason why so many other things in India are a mess.

When there is a shortage of rice and wheat in the country the answer is not to raise MSP repeatedly, that is what Sonia govt did and we had run away inflation. The answer is to IMPORT food stuff from the world market.

We should be more worried about how productive we are not food self sufficiency. There are plenty of countries producing food at a fraction of the cost that we can . If our farmers had better paying jobs - say industrial jobs- they would be more productive and we could import cheap food and everyone would be happy.

What we should be worried about is HOW to make Farming profitable and lucrative to more people.

Then everything will take care of itself.

Farming is not productive in India because we have not provided irrigation to them. We have been Taking and Taking and Taking from them and has NEVER given ANYTHING back.

No running water for them, no school for their kids, no doctors in the village and no electricity.

Then we preach to him about Fair play and market forces.

You cannot IMPORT food, you cannot go with a begging bowl in your hand to feed 1.2 billion people. The world will laught at you and THEN exploit you, like what we did to our farmers.

I agree the farmer should be provided with insurance, fertilizer, scientific methods etc, but after all that our population is still too high to be heavily agrarian. Farmers need to be soaked up in manufacturing and service jobs. The money earned will pay for food.

Food security is rubbish, India is already buying up vast acres of land in places like Ethiopia to provide food for Indians in the future. If I recall the activist brigade had a problem with that too.

We already import OIL and that way the suppliers has one of our balls in his grip. When we start importing food, they will have our second ball too.

And when they start squeezing, we will start dancing to their tunes. There is NO alternative to food security.
 
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Either you pay him the price that actually reflect the strategic IMPORTANCE of food security like Rs. 400 per Kg.

OR

You provide him with Insurance, easy finance, scientific guidance, irrigation, fertilizer, education, modern tools, social security etc.

Completely agree with the latter. A lot of it already exists - whether the farmers take it up/don't/are prevented from taking it up is a different story which needs to be addressed rather than blindly increasing food security.
 
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What we should be worried about is HOW to make Farming profitable and lucrative to more people.

Then everything will take care of itself.

Farming is not productive in India because we have not provided irrigation to them. We have been Taking and Taking and Taking from them and has NEVER given ANYTHING back.

No running water for them, no school for their kids, no doctors in the village and no electricity.

Then we preach to him about Fair play and market forces.

You cannot IMPORT food, you cannot go with a begging bowl in your hand to feed 1.2 billion people. The world will laught at you and THEN exploit you, like what we did to our farmers.
Nobody is going with begging bowl in hand. We need to go with hard earned cash in hand and pay for food and take advantage of Western subsidies.

Farmers are not the only ones without running water, why so much special consideration for them ? Because they can organize and vote in large numbers ?
 
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Completely agree with the latter. A lot of it already exists - whether the farmers take it up/don't/are prevented from taking it up is a different story which needs to be addressed rather than blindly increasing food security.

Rather than give them hand outs and charity, its far better to pay them for for their produce and EMPOWER them. That way they can chart their own destiny.

The way we do for our kids.
 
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the congress did not remove the "jai bhagwaan" obsessiveness that was inherent to india.



for protecting coolie capitalist innovators like yen aar narayanamurthy and maneka gandhi's human-killing "man's best friend" dogs and "moral police" heroes like pramod muthalik??

because i don't see what internal great system they are protecting.

:lol: I knew it, the art of side stepping is not new. I know your types. Keep on fighting internet warrior while the world moves on. I won't post pictures of what happens to your 'ideal' leaders like Ghaddafi and Che without 'jawaans', don't want to rub it in too much.

As they say here, enjoy your mom's basement.
 
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Nobody is going with begging bowl in hand. We need to go with hard earned cash in hand and pay for food and take advantage of Western subsidies.

Farmers are not the only ones without running water, why so much special consideration for them ? Because they can organize and vote in large numbers ?

Their subsidies are designed to kill our market dude. Its called DUMPING. Its designed to slowly kill the local industry and then the prices are increased.

Farmer NEED running water to grow food :cheesy: ....... its not a luxury, its a NECESSITY. Its called irrigation.
 
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Then figure out the analogy.

You want to feed 1.2 Billion people and then you dare farmers to quit Farming :cheesy:

How does that work ? By eating sand ?

The problem with Indian farming sector is straightforward.

Here 50% of people contribute just 15% of GDP. This portend to high level of hidden unemployment in Indian farming sector which express itself in low productivity.

The reason for this is that farmers have uneconomic small land holdings. Now if manufacturing sector develops and half of farmers gives up farming, selling their land to other farmers, the food production would decrease slightly ((productivity of intensive farm is higher in term of yield. It is low in term of earning for farmer because land holding is small therefore even higher yield could not compensate for low net production)), but not by alarming level as we already have food surplus. This would improve economic conditions of both farmers who are into farming,and also of those who have left farming.

Now an alternative argument could be made that Why not improve farm productivity and make farming lucrative in itself, instead of diverting labour?

The problem with this approach are many.

1. A piece of land has certain carrying capacity beyond which it could not produce irrespective of how much inputs are provided.

HYV of wheat are short wheat varieties where yield is increased by making wheat shorter thus diverting carbon resource to seed, rather than stem. Here too total organic matter that could be produced has not increased, just its form has been changed.

If a farmer has two bigha land, whatever he may do, he would never ever be able to makes even a middle class level profit from it.

2. There are very few avenues for improvement in agriculture.

This I have talked before also in this thread. People talk about irrigation like it is some magic wand, and if irrigation is provided to all farmers, drought problem would be solved. This is far from truth.India already has largest irrigated area in world in absolute terms and there are very little avenue for increasing it.

Irrigation works only when there is a need of water at a place in watershed and there is surplus available in that watershed elsewhere. Irrigation is not required (and could be counterproductive) in areas which receive very high rainfall as there is no water deficit in field.Irrigation could not be done in that watershed where there is no surplus water available for irrigation. An example of this would be Vidarbha region. It is not that government has not made dams in that region which is the cause of drought; it is that those dams are empty because of (a) low rainfall (b) low water holding capacity of volcanic rocks.


Barring river interlinking project, India's irrigation potential is nearly exhausted.You could dig canals, and build dams, but if there is no surplus water available, there could be no Irrigation.

Irrigation statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Nearly all innovations in agriculture are labour reducing and capital intensive. You cannot use harvest combine in a 2 bigha field. You cannot use tractor for an acre of field. Drip irrigation costs money. so does HYV seeds, fertilizers, no-till farming, organic farming certificates etc all cost money.

Capital investments in agriculture are increasing to cope with decrease in labour availability, but due to lack of scalability, capital productivity is decreasing. This has potential to become a debt trap for farmers.

Thus only way to improve condition of farmers is to wean a substantial amount of them from farming to industries.This would improve their situation as

1. The farmers who would be farming would have medium level economical holdings from which they could earn a profit.

2. Those farmers who have so small a holding that he should not be farming at all would have chance to sell or lease that holding and get work in industries.

3. Efficient farmers would be able to expand their holdings by buying out land holdings of inefficient farmers improving productivity of inefficient farms.


So what needs to be done.

1. Reforming Tenacy Laws

Contrary to what some Adarsh Liberals sitting in AC rooms in their Khadi kurti and Jholas believes, Tenancy laws are harming Indian agriculture, today.

Most of tenancy and ceiling laws were drafter in 1950's during era of Zamindars. They were drafted to protect small farmers but now work against them.

The benefit that would accrue from reformed tenancy laws would be

(i) Some small farmers may lease out land to shift to other occupations, provided they were assured that they could resume the land if they wished.

(ii)Some large farms may lease in land and even employ the small owner on his own farm to grow specific crops under supervision.

Tenancy should be legalised in a ‘limited’ manner. Prescribed rents, if any, should allow a band that is wide enough for rents to be contracted mutually over time period long enough to encourage investment by tenants while at the same time protecting ownership rights so that landowners have incentive to lease out land rather than keep it underutilised or fallow.


2. Government could set up Village land Banks in which a farmer could surrender his land to Land back for a periodic fixed payment, the land which bank may lease to other farmer at a fee. This could be treated as a fixed deposit providing guarantee to both parties.

3. Government should facilitate input availability like Agricultural credit,seeds,fertilizers, etc. Govt could set up seed banks at block level.

4. Improving rural infrastructure like Rural roads, storage etc to prevent wastage, and allied industries like food processing industries which would act as both employment provider and customer for produce.Post harvest lost range from 10% to 25% which could be brought down by improving infrastructure.

5. Land consolidation and modernization of Land records.

6.Government should promote Joint liability, and self help group among farmers.

7.Diversification of Agriculture. Our Agriculture is Wheat and Rice dependent. monocropping carries with it a risk of periodic droughts. This could be solved by promoting coarse cereals, and horticulture near urban areas.

8. Mixed farming should be promoted. Paddy field could be used for seasonal pisciculture. Animal husbandry could supplement farm income of small farmers.
 
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I agree and already said so several times that farmers should be provided with crop insurance, irrigation, scientific farming methods etc. there is no argument there. However, resources are tight and everybody needs a piece of action, no playing favorites.

Importing food and oil are very different , it is not possible to have a cartel for food, there are too many sources. Maybe We should consider buying up more land in Africa and do modern industrial style farming and make sure that our military is strong enough to keep the sea lanes open. Our farmers alone cannot feed 1.5 billion people of the future.
 
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The problem with Indian farming sector is straightforward.

Here 50% of people contribute just 15% of GDP. This portend to high level of hidden unemployment in Indian farming sector which express itself in low productivity.

The reason for this is that farmers have uneconomic small land holdings. Now if manufacturing sector develops and half of farmers gives up farming, selling their land to another farmer, the food production would remain decrease slightly ((productivity of intensive farm is higher in term of yield. It is low on term of earning for farmer because land holding is small therefore even higher yield could not compensate for low net production)), but not by alarming level as we already have food surplus. This would improve economic conditions of both farmers who are into farming,and also of those who leave farming.

Now an alternative argument could be made that Why not improve farm productivity and lucrative itself, instead of diverting labour?

The problem with this approach are many.

1. A piece of land has certain carrying capacity beyond which it could not produce irrespective of how much inputs are provided.

HYV of wheat are short wheat varieties where yield is increased by making wheat shorter thus diverting carbon resource to seed, rather than stem. Here too total organic matter that could be produced has not increased, just its form has been changed.

2. There are very few avenues for improvement in agriculture.

This I have talked before also in this thread. People talk about irrigation like it is some magic wand, and if irrigation is provided to all farmers, drought problem would be solved. This is far away from truth.India already has largest irrigated area in world in absolute terms

Irrigation works only when there is a need of water in areas and there is surplus available in that watershed. Irrigation is not required (and could be counterproductive) in areas which receive very high rainfall as there is no water deficit in field.Irrigation could not be done in that watershed where there is no surplus water available for irrigation. An example of this would be Vidarbha region. It is not that government has not made dams in that region which is the cause of drought, it is that those dams are empty because of (a) low rainfall (b) low water holding capacity of volcanic rocks.


Barring river interlinking project, India's irrigation potential is exhausted.

3. Nearly all innovations in agriculture are labour reducing and capital exhaustive. You cannot use harvest combine in a 2 bigha field. You cannot use tractor for an acre of field. Drip irrigation costs money. so does HYV seeds, fertilizers, no-till farming, organic farming certificates etc.

Thus only way to improve condition of farmers is to wean a substantial amount of them from farming to industries.This would improve their situation as

1. The farmers who would be farming would have medium level economical holdings from which they could earn a profit.

2. Those farmers who have so small a holding that he should not be farming at all would have chance to sell or lease that holding and get work in industries.

3. Efficient farmers would be able to expand their holdings by buying out land holdings of inefficient farmers improving productivity of inefficient farms.

Yes, wiki also mentions this. The solution is infrastructure and upstream food processing so that the wealth in the whole supply chain is well balanced.

Infrastructure

India has very poor rural roads affecting timely supply of inputs and timely transfer of outputs from Indian farms. Irrigation systems are inadequate leading to crop failures in some parts of the country because of lack of water. In other areas regional floods, poor seed quality and inefficient farming practices, lack of cold storage and harvest spoilage cause over 30% of farmer's produce going to waste, lack of organised retail and competing buyers thereby limiting Indian farmer's ability to sell the surplus and commercial crops.

The Indian farmer receives just 10 to 23% of the price the Indian consumer pays for exactly the same produce, the difference going to losses, inefficiencies and middlemen. Farmers in developed economies of Europe and the United States, in contrast, receive 64 to 81%.

Agriculture in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Leaving that troll Jahamir aside, this is actually one of the better and more interesting threads in PDF.

I agree.
 
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The problem with Indian farming sector is straightforward.

Here 50% of people contribute just 15% of GDP. This portend to high level of hidden unemployment in Indian farming sector which express itself in low productivity.

The reason for this is that farmers have uneconomic small land holdings. Now if manufacturing sector develops and half of farmers gives up farming, selling their land to another farmer, the food production would remain decrease slightly ((productivity of intensive farm is higher in term of yield. It is low on term of earning for farmer because land holding is small therefore even higher yield could not compensate for low net production)), but not by alarming level as we already have food surplus. This would improve economic conditions of both farmers who are into farming,and also of those who leave farming.

Now an alternative argument could be made that Why not improve farm productivity and lucrative itself, instead of diverting labour?

The problem with this approach are many.

1. A piece of land has certain carrying capacity beyond which it could not produce irrespective of how much inputs are provided.

HYV of wheat are short wheat varieties where yield is increased by making wheat shorter thus diverting carbon resource to seed, rather than stem. Here too total organic matter that could be produced has not increased, just its form has been changed.

2. There are very few avenues for improvement in agriculture.

This I have talked before also in this thread. People talk about irrigation like it is some magic wand, and if irrigation is provided to all farmers, drought problem would be solved. This is far away from truth.India already has largest irrigated area in world in absolute terms

Irrigation works only when there is a need of water in areas and there is surplus available in that watershed. Irrigation is not required (and could be counterproductive) in areas which receive very high rainfall as there is no water deficit in field.Irrigation could not be done in that watershed where there is no surplus water available for irrigation. An example of this would be Vidarbha region. It is not that government has not made dams in that region which is the cause of drought, it is that those dams are empty because of (a) low rainfall (b) low water holding capacity of volcanic rocks.


Barring river interlinking project, India's irrigation potential is exhausted.

3. Nearly all innovations in agriculture are labour reducing and capital exhaustive. You cannot use harvest combine in a 2 bigha field. You cannot use tractor for an acre of field. Drip irrigation costs money. so does HYV seeds, fertilizers, no-till farming, organic farming certificates etc.

Thus only way to improve condition of farmers is to wean a substantial amount of them from farming to industries.This would improve their situation as

1. The farmers who would be farming would have medium level economical holdings from which they could earn a profit.

2. Those farmers who have so small a holding that he should not be farming at all would have chance to sell or lease that holding and get work in industries.

3. Efficient farmers would be able to expand their holdings by buying out land holdings of inefficient farmers improving productivity of inefficient farms.
You make good sense :)
 
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Gajendra Singh , the so called farmer is not a farmer at all.He was a MLA candidate from rajasthan on samj wadi party ticket in 2008 and 2013 but lost twice.He runs a head turban business in rajasthan even bill clinton during his rajasthan visit wore a pagdi given by him..He recently expelled from home by his father and therefore he is upset.He came to Delhi to join AAP wearing aap clothes.ps....agricultural damage in his tehsil is only 20%..
 
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