Facebook apologises, says removal of Hamza Ali Abbasi status was mistake

[timetravel]

People should continue to write and say whatever they want, those who are offended need to grow thicker skins. I have seen worse cartoons about Prophet Muhammad PBUH then anything these French dudes drew, got pissed and then moved on with my life.

and it happens to everybody. I get offended by many things I see. And same happens to almost everyone in life, in some form or another. Patience and and moving on is essential part of human nature.

But if some extremists take to violence over such things, then they need to be removed from society. Tolerance is essential for society to grow. Without tolerance, violence would tear the society apart.

 

[Mabs]

really? this bozo says unless you west do something, one of his 2b muslims will go ballistic and kill - sounds exactly like what a jihadi nut such as osama zawahiri say. And you guys don't thing he did anything wrong?

THAT shows what is really wrong. Are threats now mainstream accepted amongst you?

I think we are misconstruing his comment. What he's trying to say is that out of 2 billion Muslims, someone with half-baked knowledge will find it acceptable to resort to violence and kill 'unjustly'. The word 'unjustly' is the key here. He's not threatening but implying that ignorant people don't need any reason to act crazy as it is, why add fuel to the fire by practicing selective 'freedom of speech'.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Your argument here can just as easily be used by jihadis. Freedom of speech is and should be total, with NO consequences. The problem with consequence is that western consequence tends to be selective which is what pisses off many Muslims.

All consequence is selective and will be made on a situatutional basis no matter where one is in the world! As @Armstrong pointed out, the redlines are shifted by whoever is deciding the consequences, but everyone is subject too them. Even jihadist can speak their minds, we have plenty of hateful people in the US speaking their minds such as racist pastors, but considering jihadists often violate US laws they are subjected to our consequences. All nations will selectively apply their own consequences. China censors information it doesn't like at a lower threshold then the US does. We all have our limits, each are different, everyone applies consequences selectively. This isn't just a function of the "west"

And why should free speech be without consequence? Should we absolve people of responsibility for their action? What about free expression? What if murdering people is how I choose to express myself? Can I use the freedom of expression defense to lessen my culpability. Limits exist for a reason. The prevent society from getting out of control

An no @Armstrong I'm not going to insult you, but I can as free speech allows me to.

 

[Koovie]

Hence my point, selective application of 'freedom of expression'.

I am sure shouting out to Obama or Cameron or Hollande "Fck your mom' or something along the lines wouldn't be met pretty cordially. Neither will saying 'Hey nigger' to Obama.

There is a difference between insulting and criticizing... there is a difference between insulting and being not allowed (because a 1400 years old book tells me to do so?!) paint Muhamed...

And FB is a private company. I find it absolutely disgusting and an act of cowardice to delete that post, but its their decision....

 

[Armstrong]

We all have our limits, each are different, everyone applies consequences selectively. This isn't just a function of the "west"

And that I think is what creates this friction; one that we must try to overcome.

The zealots in both our societies wish to see a clash of Islam vs the West whereas that can all but be avoided if we both sit down with each other and by each other I mean your own Muslim citizens and have a constructive conversation; explain to them your red-lines and the values you hold dear and ask them to explain theirs and try to evolve a consensus solution to this problem and the many problems emanating from the possibility of a small minority of Muslims in the West getting radicalized while other perfectly reasonable law abiding Muslim citizens being brushed the wrong way in this ensuing atmosphere of miscommunication and apprehension between the two communities.

This high-handed approach that 'only our way is the right way' or that 'there is only one answer to these questions' or 'if you don't like it....go back' helps no one.

There is much that we've learned from each other in the past and there still much we both can achieve by working together with each other to moderate each other's negativities while trying to build upon our common values and strengths.

 

[Devil Soul]

 

[Jango]

There is a difference between insulting and criticizing... there is a difference between insulting and being not allowed (because a 1400 years old book tells me to do so?!) paint Muhamed...
.

And therein lies the problem.

We both have different perspective of looking at things.

What you call insulting, I would call criticizing and vice versa.

Different definitions of the same word in same situations for different circumstances leads you to this.

So why not stir the hornet's nest in the first place? When you know that this wouldn't go down well with the other community. You all got to live in peace and harmony, and making a stupid cartoon (yes this was a foolish act of the highest order) gets you nowhere.

Now before anyone goes all mojo on me and brands me a caveman Muslim just to calrify:

I haven't seen those cartoons, and don't wish to either. But I am also offended by this act. Will I kill someone for it? No, because I have a firm belief that Allah will judge that moron in the after life. End of story.

Do I condemn these killings? Yes I do.

But did you see how a Muslim cop gave his life for this? How a Muslim storekeeper helped save Jews in that store from slaughter?

Just look at what Hollande has said.

 

[Dubious]

really? this bozo says unless you west do something, one of his 2b muslims will go ballistic and kill - sounds exactly like what a jihadi nut such as osama zawahiri say. And you guys don't thing he did anything wrong?

THAT shows what is really wrong. Are threats now mainstream accepted amongst you?

Did HE say that or its you putting words in?

 

[graphican]

There is difference between "Freedom off Speech" and "Freedom of Madness". Muslims are taught not to insult other religions and we don't. Even Hinduism which is like an opposite pole is not insulted. Allah says do not insult gods lest they not start insulting your True God.

Freedom of speech is accepted but of abuse of freedom is not.

Mad have a special place in society and it is mental hospitals. There is consensus in Muslim World about blasphemy and all are united and demand respect for the religion.

 

[VCheng]

..........
I haven't seen those cartoons, and don't wish to either. But I am also offended by this act. Will I kill someone for it? No, because I have a firm belief that Allah will judge that moron in the after life. End of story.

Do I condemn these killings? Yes I do..............

IF you have a firm belief that Allah will judge the cartoonist, then why take any offence at all at the cartoon that you have not even seen?

 

[Aepsilons]

• People please!!! Enough of this stupid conversation!!!

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom of consequence. If I want to I can make a rude remark about @levina or I can insult @Armstrong or poke fun at the family of @Nihonjin1051 , i can say these and no one can stop me from doing so. However, after my comments are made, I am not free from consequence. If in broke a law, such as a harassment statute or I made a threat, I can be held liable. I was able to make my comment freely, but I can't do so without reprocussion!!! Mr. Abbasis also exercised his right to speak freely, no one stopped him from making his comment, but considering he violated Facebook's policies he was subject to their consequences.

Please!!!! Stop confusing freedom of speech with freedom of consequence!!!! No one will stop you from talking, but you will be held liable for your actions. When I was in kindergarten we were taught to be mindful of hurting others, why don't adults seem to understand this easy concept?

You can speak your mind, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility for you actions!

*Freedom of expression follows the exact same principles.

Very well said buddy @SvenSvensonov .

You will insult me ?

@Nihonjin1051 - And here I thought a Pakistani, a Swede and a Japanese could be brothers who'd one day introduce to the world a Tikka flavored Sushi made with freshly caught Swedish Salmon !

I am not confusing the freedom of speech with the freedom of consequences; I was merely pointing out that his words have been misconstrued to mean something they are not !

And elsewhere 'freedom of speech' is qualified however that qualification does not always account for the sensitivities of all stakeholders; not everyone's 'red lines' may be the same as yours or my 'red lines' - There needs to be a bit open dialogue on this to accommodate each other's sensibilities.

Very well said.

 

[Armstrong]

Very well said buddy @SvenSvensonov .
Very well said.

Some thing just doesn't feel right; @SvenSvensonov when a person says 'very well said' twice that usually means 'I'm eating a stuffed chicken breast with pineapple sauce right now so bother someone else' !

 

[Jango]

IF you have a firm belief that Allah will judge the cartoonist, then why take any offence at all at the cartoon that you have not even seen?

Because drawing a cartoon of Prophet PBUH is an offence. I will frown upon it. And seeing or not seeing the cartoon doesn't make a difference, a cartoon of the Prophet PBUH is a forbidden act. PERIOD.

Won't you be offended or frown upon the occurrence of a rape?

Or won't you show your disgust at a murder of a person?

Or maybe disgust at someone being robbed at gunpoint?

Even if you know that the law will prosecute them?

 

[Armstrong]

Because drawing a cartoon of Prophet PBUH is an offence. I will frown upon it. And seeing or not seeing the cartoon doesn't make a difference, a cartoon of the Prophet PBUH is a forbidden act. PERIOD.

Won't you be offended or frown upon the occurrence of a rape?

Or won't you show your disgust at a murder of a person?

Or maybe disgust at someone being robbed at gunpoint?

Even if you know that the law will prosecute them?

Perhaps the next time someone passes a racist, anti-semetic or homophobic comment don't censure it....let God deal with it !

 

[VCheng]

Because drawing a cartoon of Prophet PBUH is an offence. I will frown upon it. And seeing or not seeing the cartoon doesn't make a difference, a cartoon of the Prophet PBUH is a forbidden act. PERIOD.

Won't you be offended or frown upon the occurrence of a rape?

Or won't you show your disgust at a murder of a person?

Or maybe disgust at someone being robbed at gunpoint?

Even if you know that the law will prosecute them?

How does drawing a cartoon equal rape, murder or robbery? Besides, drawing a cartoon of the Prophet PBUH is an offence only in certain countries and not in others, since it is a matter of legal practices according to each country. Therefore, stating that "a cartoon of the Prophet PBUH is a forbidden act" is incorrect as a universal truth.