Face Veil removal request in Western Countries

[CHACHA"G"]

Chacha I agree

Good to know !!!!! And for face covering I will not Quote any Reference or Any other religious material because its against forum Rules , But I will say to people please check and find Islamic Ideology council recommendation about Face Covering , Many will have shock................. Edit:Link is below for read.

And for western society, I spent many years there , And I find out many , many misconceptions , misunderstand about Islam and Cultures of Islamic Majority Countries .

Edit: Here I find out the news "Article" about it . link is here any one can read . @Divergent1 If you already did not read this, give this article a try , Read it you will find out many things ,
https://www.dawn.com/news/1214319

But there is one clear difference, In Islam Dress is not Uniform , Like in Christianity for Nuns ,Muslim women's dress is more then that (uniform) , Its fashionable , current , advance and modern but In Modesty..................
And as I said if Women want to have face covering then she can have it , if she don't want it she also have right for that. Its her choice which can be driven by many different facts , and reasons and of course local environment.
But it is Ironic same people who talk about freedom in every thing forcing others about what to wear and what not to!!!!!
@abdulbarijan , very well said sir.........

 

[Divergent]

and most people can predict your position on the topic ... so why the thread
It's not about an individuals opinion in a discussion, when many individuals make opposing points only then can we really look at the pros and cons and form a good opinion. Having a discussion about a subject matter and only talking to people who are like minded isn't really fruitful tbh.
This is why the west is way ahead of us, you guys at unis could come up with the most outlandish of opinions and test your arguments in debates with other students, and now you have "safe spaces" ....


and here I thought women were supposedly better at multitasking #stereotypes

It's not that, I've discussed this intensively on another platform, so I'm already familiar with the outcome therefore concluded it for you.

But sure, if it helps others to engage bring him in.

I understand your statement regarding the West, however this has created a bit of fear and people just want exposure to face. Honestly, no one in the West which is exposed to all sorts will get 'turned on' just by a face. It means absolutely nothing but is purely for security and safety reasons.

Good to know !!!!! And for face covering I will not Quote any Reference or Any other religious material because its against forum Rules , But I will say to people please check and find Islamic Ideology council recommendation about Face Covering , Many will have shock................. Some thing like "Different scholarly schools have come to different determinations but the base minimum is that modest and loose dress should be worn with a scarf of some type covering the head allowing only for the face and hands to be visible , Its more cultural " If I am Not wrong.

And for western society, I spent many years there , And I find out many , many misconceptions , misunderstand about Islam and Cultures of Islamic Majority Countries .

Discussing face veil, that is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Zibago]

Due to the current climate, is it safe for Muslim Women to wear face veils in Western Countries?

Nope not safe with current right wing revival it could be flat out dangerous its best if they avoid it personally i believe the right to wear a veil is as important as a right not to wear one but you know it is what it is not my country i cant influence decisions in other countries

Do you think terrorism in a country like UK is so bad that it warrants ban on face veil here?

Its completely political in nature

That applies to those having issues with Pakistani laws as well.

If they are Pakistanis they have full right to have issues

 

[Verve]

I don't like people making sweeping statements on things pertaining to religion because we don't have an Islamic scholar on PDF to contest the views made by our friends on the left calling xyz an abomination. I'll trust @Zarvan to come up with some pointers regarding the islamic point of view on this issue.

-As far as the argumentation goes, in terms of clothing, first off it's flat out hypocritical of the west to talk about "empowerment of women" and then depriving them of a choice of clothing. So lemme get this straight, the great west, that goes to extreme lengths, and talks about "her body her choice" to defend things like abortion, can't seem to respect the choices of women, that are not in agreement with the local culture.
Now I get that the local population has its own norms, values and culture, and things that go against them are deemed odd and are frowned upon which is fairly common around the world, but stop calling yourself "inclusive" "open" and "free" etc. when you yourself cherry pick the choices you allot to people.

-To loosely quote Mufti Menk; according to the west a woman whose a house wife, and takes care of her husband is oppressed, while a woman who serves 200 men at 35,000 feet in the air is supposedly empowered.

-As far the whole correlation with terrorism, well, if the argument that you present is that since the attire is correlated with terrorism and has been used by some terrorists, hence it may cause the people wearing it harm because of the anger and anti-muslim sentiments. If that is the argument, you owe it to yourself to be intellectually consistent, and also advise people not to wear skimpy outfits, since after all, those were the choice victims of people like the Green River Killer and Gary Ridgway (who BTW pleaded guilty to killing 48 women).

-Lastly, I will say however, if you as a muslim, make the conscientious choice to go live in the west and raise your families there--- well, the treatment you get is part of the package. Whether it is maltreatment for having a beard or wearing a niqab. Yes, the perpetrator who maltreated you is a piece of $hit, but it was your decision to go in a country, knowing full well what goes on there.

Fully agree.

 

[ValerioAurelius]

Our countries our rules.

In our culture its an absolute importance to see the other persons face. Someone with no face is no person and excludes from society. Its like a cancer cell. Air.

I believe alot more should be banned than veil. Anyone wearing this shit should be deported. And i mean this serious. Its un italian and un european.

 

[Verve]

Fear mongering is a good way justify a law to take targeted freedom away from people.

 

[Verve]

current right wing revival

Liberal Secularism will die a horrible death eventually, by the hands of it's very own torch bearers. Unfortunately many of us are oblivious to this. Alas.

 

[MastanKhan]

Our countries our rules.

In our culture its an absolute importance to see the other persons face. Someone with no face is no person and excludes from society. Its like a cancer cell. Air.

I believe alot more should be banned than veil. Anyone wearing this shit should be deported. And i mean this serious. Its un italian and un european.

Hi,

Absolutely---the person's face MUST BE visible and the eyes as well---.

See---many a pakistanis would stand in a line to gang rape a girl or a woman or child molestation---but none would wage a war on these perverts---.

And these fundos---even their women folks would justify the action of their men---.

 

[Verve]

Enjoy an example of Liberal Secularism below ... if this is what we want on our TVs and expose our 'muslim' children to in Pakistan ...

 

[abdulbarijan]

It's not that, I've discussed this intensively on another platform, so I'm already familiar with the outcome therefore concluded it for you.
But sure, if it helps others to engage bring him in.
I understand your statement regarding the West, however this has created a bit of fear and people just want exposure to face. Honestly, no one in the West which is exposed to all sorts will get 'turned on' just by a face. It means absolutely nothing but is purely for security and safety reasons.

-This has nothing to do with getting 'turned on'. The idea is, if you as someone in the west claims your free, open,culturally diverse and inclusive especially when it comes to women, how is it your considering to limit their choices?
Funny how the west will go out and criticize the eastern culture where some fathers will ask their daughters and sons to dress modestly, saying that these people are intelligent enough and capable enough to make their own decisions yet, the same country will limit the choices you have in clothing ...

-Secondly, being a realist I understand if people in such countries don't dress religiously e.g. caps and beards for men with cultural clothing and veils for women etc. however part of the blame for creating such fear has to go to the media. The washington post conducted a research study and deduced the following;

-In a recent study, we found that the news media do not cover all terrorist attacks the same way. Rather, they give drastically more coverage to attacks by Muslims, particularly foreign-born Muslims — even though those are far less common than other kinds of terrorist attacks.

-In total, there were 89 attacks committed by different perpetrators in the United States during the five-year period we examined. Between 2011 and 2015 in the United States, Muslims perpetrated 12.4 percent of those attacks.

-The small proportion of attacks that were by Muslims — remember, only 12 percent — received 44 percent of the news coverage. In only 5 percent of all the terrorist attacks, the perpetrator was both Muslim and foreign-born — but those four attacks got 32 percent of all the media coverage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-most-people-think-of/?utm_term=.c0125987ab61

 

[Flash_Ninja]

A law like this, while a sound idea, would just be abused by the right-wing/anti-muslim crowd and use it as a stepping stone to add further restrictions.

If the government is genuinely interested in implementing this kind of law, they need to mobilise the British Muslim community to support the bill first, otherwise I would say its not a good idea.

 

[Verve]

Yeah, the above is ok but face veil is a security risk ...

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Yeah, the above is ok but face veil is a security risk ...

Zamana Aaya Hai Be-Hijaabi Ka

Zamana Aaya Hai Be-Hijabi Ka, Aam Deedar-e-Yaar Hoga;
Sakoot Tha PardaDaar Jiska Wo Raaz Ab Aashkaar Hoga.

Era has come for openness, so Beloved's Sight will be common.
The secret which silence had concealed, will be unveiled now.

Guzar Gaya Ab Wo Daur Saaqi, Ke Chupke Peetey The PeeneWaale;
Banega Saara Jahaan Mai'Khaana; Har Koi Badah Khwaar Hoga.

O Cup-bearer! Time has gone when wine was taken secretly.
The whole world will become a Bar, everyone will be drinking

Kabhi Jo Aawarah Junoon The, Wo Bastiyon Mein Phir Aa Basenge;
BarahnaPaayi Wahi Rahegi, Magar Naya KhaarZaad Hoga.

Those who once wandered insane, will return to habitations;
Lovers' wandering will be the same but deserts will be anew.

Suna Diya Gosh-e-Muntazir Ko Hijaaz Ki Khamoshi Ne Aakhir;
Jo Ahad Sehra'iyon Se Baandha Gaya Tha Phir Ustawaar Hoga.

The Hijaz' silence has proclaimed to the waiting ear at last
The covenants established with deserters will be re'assured

Nikal Ke Sehra Se Jisne Rooma Ki Saltanat Ko Ulat Diya Tha;
Suna Hai Ye Qudsiyon Se Maine Wo Sher Phir Hoshiyar Hoga.

The one coming from deserts had overturned the Roman Empire;
I have heard from the Qudsis that the same Lion will be re-awakened

Kiya Mera Tazkira Jo Saaqi Ne Badahkwaaron Ke Anjuman Mein;
Tho Peer-e-Majlis Ne Sunke Kehne Laga K Manphat Hai Khwar Hoga

As the cup-bearer mentioned me in the wine-drinkers assembly;
The Bar's head said, "He is insolent, he will be disgraced"

Diyaar-e-Maghrib K Rehne Walon, Khuda Ki Basti Dukan Nahi Hai;
Khara Jise Tum Samajh Rahe Ho Wo Ab Zar-e-Kam 'Ayaar Hoga.

O Western world's inhabitants, God's world is not a shop!
What you are considering genuine, will be regarded counterfeit.

Tumhaari Tehzeeb Apne Khanjar Se Aap Hi Khudkashi Karegi;
Jo Shaakh-e-Naazuk Pe Aashiyana Banega Na-Payedaar Hoga.

Your civilization will commit suicide with its own knife;
The nest built on the weak branch will not be permanent, stable.

--

Chaman Mein Lala Dikhaata Phirta Hai Daag Apna, Kali Kali Ko;
Ye Jaanta Hai Ke Is Dikhaawe Se Diljalon Mein Shumaar Hoga.

The Lala (a bird), shows its spots to every flower-bud in the garden.
Knowing that by doing this it will be among the Love haters.

Jo Ek Tha Aye Nigaah Toone Hazaar Karke Hamein Dikhaaya;
Yahi Agar Kaifiyath Hai Teri Tho Phir Kise Aitebaar Hoga?

O Sight! that which was the One(God) you showed us as a thousand?
If this is still your state, what will be your trustfulness?

---

Khuda Ke Ashiq To Hain Hazaro Bano Mein Phirtey Hain Marey Marey
Main Uska Banda Banonga Jisko,Khuda Ke Bandon Se Pyar Hoga

God's Lovers are in thousands, roaming here & there in the caves;
I shall adore the one who will be the lover of God's people

Ye Rasm-e-Bazm-e-Fana Hai, Aye Dil! Gunah Hai Chumbish-e-Nazar Bhi;
Rahegi Kya Aabaru Hamaari Jo Tu Yahaan Beqaraar Hoga?

These customs & rituals are to perish, O Heart! Even winking is a sin
What will our respect be if you will be restless here?

Main Zulmat-e-Shab Mein Leke Niklunga Apne DarManda Karwaan Ko;
Sharar Fashaan Hogi Aah Meri, Nafs Mera Sholabaar Hoga!

In the darkness of the night I shall take out my tired caravan
My sigh will be shedding sparks my breath will be throwing flames

---

Na Pooch Iqbal Ka Thikaana, Abhi Wahi Kaifiyat Hai Uski;
Kahin Sar-e-Raah Guzaar Baitha, Sitam Kash-e-Intezaar Hoga.

Do not ask about the condition of Iqbal,he is in the same state;
Sitting somewhere by the wayside waiting for oppression!

Boxer Muhammad Ali Defends Muslim Women (hijab aka headscarf, scarf, head cover)

 

[Divergent]

-This has nothing to do with getting 'turned on'. The idea is, if you as someone in the west claims your free, open,culturally diverse and inclusive especially when it comes to women, how is it your considering to limit their choices?
Funny how the west will go out and criticize the eastern culture where some fathers will ask their daughters and sons to dress modestly, saying that these people are intelligent enough and capable enough to make their own decisions yet, the same country will limit the choices you have in clothing ...

-Secondly, being a realist I understand if people in such countries don't dress religiously e.g. caps and beards for men with cultural clothing and veils for women etc. however part of the blame for creating such fear has to go to the media. The washington post conducted a research study and deduced the following;

I believe face veil isn't fully banned throughout Western countries and it's not a case of limiting choice. They're free to wear whatever they wish, however it is advised they don't wear the face veil purely for security reasons as many incidents have happened and some which I pointed out. This above all is there for their own safety and preventing any further unwanted discrimination.

Furthermore it is unfair to alone Western Countries when Egypt and Tunisia have also outlawed them.

 

[Verve]

it is unfair to alone Western Countries when Egypt and Tunisia have also outlawed them.

Nice one ... West, the torch bearers of higher moral grounds & freedoms etc etc, will follow Egypt and Tunisia. Since when?