Face Veil removal request in Western Countries

[Divergent]

Let's not start the assumptions again.

Are you part of a focus group (be it third party) on assignment from UK government? - this is a simple and straightforward question.

That is irrelevant to the subject in motion.

 

[Verve]

That is irrelevant to the subject in motion.

It is very relevant. It will provide clarity on the intent.

Kindly, answer the question instead of dodging it.

Look I deal with these cases, I attend conferences, I even have Imams and sisters who belong to the same community and Faith understanding it. I hear the non-Muslims out. As people we should meet middle ground.

This statement above begs the question: Why do you do all that?

And it supports my earlier question on your direct/indirect affiliation with UK government on religious matters.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

The veil is not Islamic, Islam says nothing about veils. Hijab however, should not be tampered with.

 

[El Sidd]

You guys are still at it. Nice !

I would love to see such commitment on more pressing issues like poverty, injustice or education.

Be practical for the sake of Pakistan.

Isn't it obvious that there exists difference of opinion? The only practical solution is a democratic one or through logical way of the moderates.

Furthermore both parties are in a love hate relationship and a crush/inclination to extremism. A dangerous flirt for character building.

I hope sanity prevails and you guys realise time is a cruel teacher.

 

[Manama]

New member here. I have yet to go through the entire thread but i'd like to add this that i find it very ironic and amazing at the same time that people tend to defend the face veil or Burqa by using "Islam".

-Nothing in Islam commands women to cover their faces etc, infact the obligatory prayer (Namaz) and the pilgrimage (Hajj or Umrah) isn't even accepted if the woman has her face covered. If people are going to call it Islamic, bring proof from the Scripture (Quran and Hadith) itself and not what your local mullah told you.

-Another interesting way people defend the Burqa or face veil is saying "modesty", PLEASE! hiding your identity isn't modesty, its extremism. Trust me no man cares about your body or face. If they have to fantasize they'll do it with or without "modesty".

-Also bashing the western countries saying that "If they are going to talk about freedom to choose and then ban Burqa or niqaab, its hypocrisy". NO! its not hypocrisy at all, you know why? Because one is a matter of personal feelings and other is security. You don't see a woman or anyone hiding bombs in their bikinis, yet they do in Burqas. Bikinis don't hide your identity, burqas and face veil do. And whenever a woman wears one and goes out in public, its her choice. Burqa? not so much. Women are killed over not covering faces or wearing burqas. Women are killed over wanting to wear whatever they want.
What we need is a burqa ban or even willingly drop the burqa to stand with those being oppressed with it.

 

[Verve]

I would love to see such commitment on more pressing issues like poverty, injustice or education.

Sir, majority here are not interested in those topics. Such threads die after a handful posts and poor governance is pretty much agreed to be the root cause of those issues.

Religion is a hot topic these days, unfortunately.

Maybe a temporary ban would be good way to go about it .. society needs to be guided in a certain direction at times, maybe we Pakistani members here should be too.

 

[El Sidd]

Sir, majority here are not interested in those topics. Such threads die after a handful posts and poor governance is pretty much agreed to be the root cause of those issues.

Religion is a hot topic these days, unfortunately.

Maybe a temporary ban would be good way to go about it .. society needs to be guided in a certain direction at times, maybe we Pakistani members here should be too.

I have very limited knowledge and i have used all of this here. Any more would be a repeat of the same.

And it is always positive when religion is discussed. Makes me happy as a Muslim and Human.

I have no insecurities about it.

God doesn't need us we need him. So we must understand him and what better way to do it through Muslims and Islam.

 

[Verve]

And it is always positive when religion is discussed.

It is positive when people engage in such discussions to increase their understanding of Islam, but not when there is some other agenda behind it.

 

[Hell hound]

The veil is not Islamic, Islam says nothing about veils. Hijab however, should not be tampered with.

i was repeating the same mantra that veil is a cultural thing that originated in arabia it has nothing to do with islam but hijab is different thing.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

i was repeating the same mantra that veil is a cultural thing that originated in arabia it has nothing to do with islam but hijab is different thing.

It did not even originate in Arabia, it was worn by Jews and Christians in Levant where the Muslims began to adopt it, shortly after.

 

[Divergent]

New member here. I have yet to go through the entire thread but i'd like to add this that i find it very ironic and amazing at the same time that people tend to defend the face veil or Burqa by using "Islam".

-Nothing in Islam commands women to cover their faces etc, infact the obligatory prayer (Namaz) and the pilgrimage (Hajj or Umrah) isn't even accepted if the woman has her face covered. If people are going to call it Islamic, bring proof from the Scripture (Quran and Hadith) itself and not what your local mullah told you.

-Another interesting way people defend the Burqa or face veil is saying "modesty", PLEASE! hiding your identity isn't modesty, its extremism. Trust me no man cares about your body or face. If they have to fantasize they'll do it with or without "modesty".

-Also bashing the western countries saying that "If they are going to talk about freedom to choose and then ban Burqa or niqaab, its hypocrisy". NO! its not hypocrisy at all, you know why? Because one is a matter of personal feelings and other is security. You don't see a woman or anyone hiding bombs in their bikinis, yet they do in Burqas. Bikinis don't hide your identity, burqas and face veil do. And whenever a woman wears one and goes out in public, its her choice. Burqa? not so much. Women are killed over not covering faces or wearing burqas. Women are killed over wanting to wear whatever they want.
What we need is a burqa ban or even willingly drop the burqa to stand with those being oppressed with it.

Thank you for your input and interesting points.

 

[El Sidd]

It is positive when people engage in such discussions to increase their understanding of Islam, but not when there is some other agenda behind it.

My last post on this thread to both sides. I hope everyone who reads it doesn't scroll forward but just backwards for historical reasons lol.

Sude No A : put Qur'an to understanding and not just translating / reciting. If that is hard just understand his 99 names. He is the best schemer. Trust him. He says they scheme what they scheme and surely thy lord is the only schemer.
In Islam you can eak pork and consume alcohol when dire needs be. Security seems to be one as well.

Side B: Be practical. Be true to your weakness and be original. Do not look to the west for answers that you already have.
Islam is still the calling sign to salvation for Muslims.

 

[Divergent]

I have very limited knowledge and i have used all of this here. Any more would be a repeat of the same.

And it is always positive when religion is discussed. Makes me happy as a Muslim and Human.

I have no insecurities about it.

God doesn't need us we need him. So we must understand him and what better way to do it through Muslims and Islam.

I think what people are forgetting is a concern was raised after a near miss of an incident and in the past crimes under it have been committed. I ask you in very moral and logical grounds, if your or my Country had attacks using an attire which doesn't belong to our culture and we as governors and authorities are expected to meet demands of a public outcry and our people are already in fear. Do we not try and meet middle grounds where we ask a certain community to work with us and help people to remove a veil to avoid public hostility? As other items on similar grounds have also been removed and banned?

 

[Verve]

Sude No A : put Qur'an to understanding and not just translating / reciting. If that is hard just understand his 99 names. He is the best schemer. Trust him. He says they scheme what they scheme and surely thy lord is the only schemer.
In Islam you can eak pork and consume alcohol when dire needs be. Security seems to be one as well.

Side B: Be practical. Be true to your weakness and be original. Do not look to the west for answers that you already have.
Islam is still the calling sign to salvation for Muslims.

I have absolutely no disagreement with what you've said above.

Islam is still the calling sign to salvation for Muslims.

Here you will find many disagreeing, as 'scriptures' are below common sense. May Allah guide them.

 

[Russell]

4) It is not safe for these women especially when the attire is abused and will endanger them due to excessive suspiciousness and uninvited discrimination

My wife does not wear the veil or the hijab - though she prays 5 times a day. I on the other hand make it to Jummah prayers and that's about it most of the year

I'm personally not a fan of the veil/niqab etc etc...but, point 4 can't and shouldn't be the reason muslim women stop wearing a face veil. The fear/threat of being abused and discriminated against can't be the reason for someone to give up what they consider to be a central part of their faith.

We hear in the west after a terrorist attack - 'we mustn't give in to fear or intimidation...because that would mean x/y/z has won'

Surely, this works both ways? Those muslim women who feel they need to wear a face veil shouldn't give up wearing it because doing so would mean, they too have given into fear or intimidation.

*I have no issues with how independent nations enact laws or rules that govern those who choose to reside in those nations - be they laws which concentrate on issues of security or cohesiveness (assimilation). So, ban/prohibit the wearing of a veil in public if it is deemed a security risk for the public at large...but, not because some poor muslim girl is going to get it ripped off or spat on by a bunch of savage thugs.