Face Veil removal request in Western Countries

[Divergent]

Why would you ask a guy to "feel you" is beyond me

Slang. Means 'see my point'.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Hi,

They claim it to be the best nation to live in---and there is no doubt that it is---. But they don't claim to be the protectors of the realm.

The united states is like 50 nations combined into one---. It is still the land of opportunity---you can come in here and it will make your dreams come true.

Any crime does not need to be reported---once the police officer finds that a crime is committed---the report will be filed. The state will take over---.

The fraudulent & deceptive Shariah law does not take that route---. In the U S law---there is no compromise between two parties---all crimes are considered committed against the state.

Please don't for a moment compare the perverted state to the united state.

The U S may kick me out tomorrow---but the facts don't change---.

-The US has conducted direct military interventions in at least 7 nations in the past 17 years, which btw is ONE INTERVENTION EVERY 2.4 YEARS ... so if you believe that the Americans or even you as an American don't think of yourself as the 'protectors of the realm' or the 'policeman of the world', there is a huge gap in what you guys claim and what you practice.

- And please brother, don't bring the "American dream" crap here ... Just go around and see the wealth concentration in the US, the top 10%, they literally owns 76% of the entire country's wealth and you have people like yourself believing that somehow a nobody can go out and get a fair shot at an opportunity to turn your life in to something from practically nothing, or worse than nothing considering at the time when you've passed out of college, you've amassed a considerable amount of debt which you'll probably be paying for the next decade or more.I've had enough of this fantasy already. As Malcom X said; "I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare"

Let's not forget, the illusion of your "capitalism" and "opportunities"... What was it ...TARP, through which 700 billion of the hard earned tax dollars of the American people were spent bailing out banks and different businesses from the brink of complete bankruptcy, yet how much wealth is shared when the same companies make record profits? Yup thats right. ZERO, these corporations have full right to spend their profits how they wanna spend them, yet in losses they want to be bailed out by regular Joe's which was basically caused by their own incompetent arses to begin with ... To borrow a quote from a certain fellow on the internet, you guys are "Capitalists in profits, and socialists in losses" ...

 

[HannibalBarca]

-The US has conducted direct military interventions in at least 7 nations in the past 17 years, which btw is ONE INTERVENTION EVERY 2.4 YEARS ... so if you believe that the Americans don't think of them as the 'protectors of the realm' or the 'policeman of the world', there is a huge gap in what you guys claim and what you practice.

- And please brother, don't bring the "American dream" crap here ... Just go around and see the wealth concentration in the US, the top 10%, they literally owns 76% of the entire country's wealth and you have people like yourself believing that somehow a nobody can go out and get a fair shot at an opportunity to turn your life in to something from practically nothing, or worse than nothing considering the time when you've passed out of college, you've amassed a considerable amount of debt which you'll probably be paying for the next decade or more.I've had enough of this fantasy already. As Malcom X said; "I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare"

Let's not forget, the illusion of your "capitalism" and "opportunities"... What was it ...TARP, through which 700 billion of the hard earned tax dollars of the American people were spent bailing out banks and different businesses from the brink of complete bankruptcy, yet how much wealth is shared when the same companies make record profits? To borrow a quote from a certain fellow on the internet, you guys are "Capitalists in profits, and socialists in losses" ...

I prefer the French -German or Scandinavian dream...

 

[Blacklight]

Slang. Means 'see my point'.

Thank You for that clarification. Highly obliged. Duly noted. Now I will go and delete my short term memory

 

[HannibalBarca]

Thank You for that clarification. Highly obliged. Duly noted. Now I will go and delete my short term memory

You are living in Ireland (even if not, your english shows us you are higly educated in English vocabulary...)... and yet do not know that slang... Let's be honest... You knew what you were writing and his meaning... and we know each other what you meant and wanted by writing it.

Have Fun.

 

[Blacklight]

You are living in Ireland (even if not, your english shows us you are higly educated in English vocabulary...)... and yet do not know that slang... Let's be honest... You knew what you were writing and his meaning... and we know each other what you meant and wanted by writing it.

Have Fun.

you sound like a goody goody two shoes, I was always a back bencher, get the hint?

 

[HannibalBarca]

you sound like a goody goody two shoes, I was always a back bencher, get the hint?

Yep... by this answer... I have the confirmation... now that you knew what you were writing...

 

[Blacklight]

Yep... by this answer... I have the confirmation... now that you knew what you were writing...

Don't know what you are going on about, but back benchers are always bad in studies.

As a matter of fact Canadians do, when the temperatures dip below -40C

Good, now people who want to wear a niqab, can wear a ski mask . Now lets talk about the rest of the world where one cannot wear a ski mask.

 

[Divergent]

You are living in Ireland (even if not, your english shows us you are higly educated in English vocabulary...)... and yet do not know that slang... Let's be honest... You knew what you were writing and his meaning... and we know each other what you meant and wanted by writing it.

Have Fun.

I appreciate this.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Nah I ain't mad type. Referring to someone's point 'retarded' is provoking, unless they have limit vocabulary Lala. Feel me?

Point noted. I respect your argument.

Again, I reiterate 'current climate' and 'current situation' which lays emphasis and adds weight to the argument of recent times, not making it a permanence nor a law.

I agree that the West shouldn't brand themselves as ambassadors of freedom/liberalism as one person's freedom in terms of dressing attire may not necessarily be another's, hence why I would oppose any ban on face veils on legal grounds.

However, morally I've also stated that there's been incidents where people have abused the face veil to commit crimes and escape justice. This doesn't just draw lines on veils but anything to do with face coverages, for e.g. hoodies, helmets etc. They have been completey outlawed in England.

Further to that, the culture of these Countries is completely different. The Western society when going to East preserves and respects their culture and has to be dressed in compliant with the social norms there. Similarly, in the West face exposure is part of their culture. Glasses are for health reasons and any exempts regarding that are taken into consideration and doesn't disguise The face, shades are not worn 24hrs.

Jackets or other open wear isn't at dispute because no one is asking for removal of Jilbab and nor is it outlawed therefore doesn't come into the equation.

Alrighty three points to that.

-First off, when you say that your proposition is in light of the "current climate" ... Do you really think that after you normalize other more liberal type of dresses for yourselves and integrate, atleast in terms of clothing with the other people, that the environment would just let you go back to the veils and the hijabs (something the west associates with backwardness) anytime you please ? (even if it's after this wave of terrorism passes, and there is no law barring you from doing so) ...

-Secondly, when you talk about crimes where such and such article of clothing has been utilized, whats the extent your willing to go up to ? Like I've stated before, usually the CCTV cameras are mounted around 8-10 feet in height so as to prevent easy access ... But on that height ... any body wearing shades and a baseball cap is practically undetectable. Why not ban baseball caps and shades too? Just like gang members store their guns in their waist bands and hide them with their jackets. So, here again, you have a situation where an article of clothing is being used to atleast partially to aid a person committing a crime. So by this argument, my intention is to say, that if you go on this whole, 'your not advised to wear this, this and this because some criminal did xyz while wearing this' ... the argument can be stretched across many different articles of clothing.

-Lastly, as far as the whole "they respect the eastern culture, so we should respect their western culture" debate goes ... I think, of it like this. The eastern cultures don't call themselves the beacons of freedom and inclusiveness etc etc. The western cultures do. I'm merely judging the east and the west by the values they have prescribed FOR THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES. Oh well, Hakuna Matata!

Yeah last line may aap nay kiski atma koe bolaya hai?(in red)

 

[Blacklight]

Alrighty three points to that.

-First off, when you say that your proposition is in light of the "current climate" ... Do you really think that after you normalize another more liberal type of dresses for you and integrate, atleast in terms of clothing with the other people, that the environment would just let you go back to the veils and the hijabs (something the west associates with backwardness) anytime you please ? (even if there is no law barring you from doing so) ...

-Secondly, when you talk about crimes where such and such article of clothing has been utilized, whats the extent your willing to go up to ? Like I've stated before, usually the CCTV cameras are mounted around 8-10 feet in height so as to prevent easy access ... But on that height ... any body wearing shades and a baseball cap is practically undetectable. Why not ban baseball caps and shades too? Just like man gang members store their guns in their waist bands and hide them with their jackets. So, here again, you have a situation where an article of clothing is being used to atleast partially to aid a person committing a crime. So by this argument, my intention is to say, that if you go on this whole, 'your not advised to wear this, this and this because some criminal did xyz while wearing this' ... the argument can be stretched across many different articles of clothing.

-Lastly, as far as the whole "they respect the eastern culture, so we should respect their western culture" debate goes ... I think, of it like this. The eastern cultures don't call themselves the beacons of freedom and inclusiveness etc etc. The western cultures do. I'm merely judging the east and the west by the values they have prescribed FOR THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES. Oh well, Hakuna Matata!

Lagta hai, hazrat koe, "bhains kay agay been bajanay, ka bauhat shauq hai."

Yeah last line may aap nay kiski atma koe bolaya hai?(in red)

 

[Divergent]

Alrighty three points to that.

-First off, when you say that your proposition is in light of the "current climate" ... Do you really think that after you normalize other more liberal type of dresses for yourselves and integrate, atleast in terms of clothing with the other people, that the environment would just let you go back to the veils and the hijabs (something the west associates with backwardness) anytime you please ? (even if it's after this wave of terrorism passes, and there is no law barring you from doing so) ...

-Secondly, when you talk about crimes where such and such article of clothing has been utilized, whats the extent your willing to go up to ? Like I've stated before, usually the CCTV cameras are mounted around 8-10 feet in height so as to prevent easy access ... But on that height ... any body wearing shades and a baseball cap is practically undetectable. Why not ban baseball caps and shades too? Just like gang members store their guns in their waist bands and hide them with their jackets. So, here again, you have a situation where an article of clothing is being used to atleast partially to aid a person committing a crime. So by this argument, my intention is to say, that if you go on this whole, 'your not advised to wear this, this and this because some criminal did xyz while wearing this' ... the argument can be stretched across many different articles of clothing.

-Lastly, as far as the whole "they respect the eastern culture, so we should respect their western culture" debate goes ... I think, of it like this. The eastern cultures don't call themselves the beacons of freedom and inclusiveness etc etc. The western cultures do. I'm merely judging the east and the west by the values they have prescribed FOR THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES.

Not all of the West considers the Hijab backwards, the ground reality is quite different and exaggerated. In general the West doesn't brandish the 'Hijab' as backwards, except a few, there are odds everywhere. This doesn't justify brushing the whole region under the same colour.

There are females in Hijabs who are liberated within successful fields such as news reporters (Ch.4), company managers, teachers, models (Somalian model promoting Kanye West's brand), activists, fashion shows (modest show), successful television presenters, Youtubers (Dina Tokia, Amina, Nabila Bee etc) firefighters (yes you read that right) and CEOs. These are liberated and celebrated women who break all stereotypes and embraced in society.

Interestingly enough I'd like to point out the following to confirm, much of this movement was supported by the Middle-East and Muslim Countries too. In addition incidents that led to the decision:

Ottoman prohibition of the burqa: A reader points out that the Ottoman sultan gave the example of a burqa'ed man committing a robbery to ban the sheet-like apparel in April 1892. (November 19, 2012)

Amin al-Husseini escaped Palestine: Tipped off in July 1937 that the British police were coming to arrest him, the vile mufti of Jerusalem first took sanctuary on the Temple Mount for three months, then escaped Mandatory Palestine in October 1937 by putting on a woman's covering and sliding down a rope in the dark. He fled successfully to Lebanon where he resumed his pro-Nazi activities.

Iraqi irregulars in Deir Yassin: Troops from Iraq disguised themselves as women to enter the Palestinian town in early 1948.

Nuri al-Said failed to escape the revolution: Iraq's dominant politician during the period of the Hashemite monarchy tried to flee dressed in women's clothing in July 1958 but, the story goes, his shoes gave him away and he was shot.

"Disguised gunmen try to free terror leader": For details of how three Islamist terrorists tried to spring their boss from a prison hospital by dressing as women in abayas, see my weblog entry, "Saudi 'Counterterrorism' Efforts Fail Again." (June 9, 2004)

Burqa'ed commandos capture burqa'ed Al-Qaeda fugitive: On the plus side, a group of Pakistani commandoes disguised itself as women to wait out a ranking Al-Qaeda operative, Abu Faraj al-Libbi. And why were they in burqas? Tim McGirk of Time explains: "U.S. and Pakistani intelligence had received a tip that a suspected al-Qaeda operative would be traveling to [the town of] Mardan disguised as a burqa-clad woman. Because any plainclothesmen seen grabbing a woman would attract a hostile mob, the commandos had donned female garb and accosted the suspect as his motorcycle crossed a graveyard." (May. 8, 2005)

Afghan suicide bombers hides under burqa: Five Afghan soldiers were killed and four wounded when a suicide bomber, whom the police think was a Taliban member, disguised himself as a woman and sat in the backseat of a car, then set off a bomb hidden under his burqa at an army checkpoint in Khost province of eastern Afghanistan. According to Mohammed Ayub, the regional police chief, "The bomber probably wanted to go into Khost city for a suicide attack there, but panicked and blew himself up when the soldiers started checking." (February 2, 2006)

Al-Qaeda leadership in Iraq: Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, eluded Western forces over a three-year period through wiliness. In the description of Bill Powell and Scott MacLeod of Time, "al-Zarqawi was a maddeningly elusive target—a master of disguise who could pass as a woman in a burqa one day, an Iraqi policeman the next." (June 11, 2006)

Oh and for the record, in some places hat are banned for CCTV issues such as Yorkshire.

Yet despite all this the removal of face veil is still a request. Not a law.

 

[El Sidd]

Not all of the West considers the Hijab backwards, the ground reality is quite different and exaggerated. In general the West doesn't brandish the 'Hijab' as backwards, except a few, there are odds everywhere. This doesn't justify brushing the whole region under the same colour.

There are females in Hijabs who are liberated within successful fields such as news reporters (Ch.4), company managers, teachers, models (Somalian model promoting Kanye West's brand), activists, fashion shows (modest show), successful television presenters, Youtubers (Dina Tokia, Amina, Nabila Bee etc) firefighters (yes you read that right) and CEOs. These are liberated and celebrated women who break all stereotypes and embraced in society.

Interestingly enough I'd like to point out the following to confirm, much of this movement was supported by the Middle-East and Muslim Countries too. In addition incidents that led to the decision:

Ottoman prohibition of the burqa: A reader points out that the Ottoman sultan gave the example of a burqa'ed man committing a robbery to ban the sheet-like apparel in April 1892. (November 19, 2012)

Amin al-Husseini escaped Palestine: Tipped off in July 1937 that the British police were coming to arrest him, the vile mufti of Jerusalem first took sanctuary on the Temple Mount for three months, then escaped Mandatory Palestine in October 1937 by putting on a woman's covering and sliding down a rope in the dark. He fled successfully to Lebanon where he resumed his pro-Nazi activities.

Iraqi irregulars in Deir Yassin: Troops from Iraq disguised themselves as women to enter the Palestinian town in early 1948.

Nuri al-Said failed to escape the revolution: Iraq's dominant politician during the period of the Hashemite monarchy tried to flee dressed in women's clothing in July 1958 but, the story goes, his shoes gave him away and he was shot.

"Disguised gunmen try to free terror leader": For details of how three Islamist terrorists tried to spring their boss from a prison hospital by dressing as women in abayas, see my weblog entry, "Saudi 'Counterterrorism' Efforts Fail Again." (June 9, 2004)

Burqa'ed commandos capture burqa'ed Al-Qaeda fugitive: On the plus side, a group of Pakistani commandoes disguised itself as women to wait out a ranking Al-Qaeda operative, Abu Faraj al-Libbi. And why were they in burqas? Tim McGirk of Time explains: "U.S. and Pakistani intelligence had received a tip that a suspected al-Qaeda operative would be traveling to [the town of] Mardan disguised as a burqa-clad woman. Because any plainclothesmen seen grabbing a woman would attract a hostile mob, the commandos had donned female garb and accosted the suspect as his motorcycle crossed a graveyard." (May. 8, 2005)

Afghan suicide bombers hides under burqa: Five Afghan soldiers were killed and four wounded when a suicide bomber, whom the police think was a Taliban member, disguised himself as a woman and sat in the backseat of a car, then set off a bomb hidden under his burqa at an army checkpoint in Khost province of eastern Afghanistan. According to Mohammed Ayub, the regional police chief, "The bomber probably wanted to go into Khost city for a suicide attack there, but panicked and blew himself up when the soldiers started checking." (February 2, 2006)

Al-Qaeda leadership in Iraq: Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, eluded Western forces over a three-year period through wiliness. In the description of Bill Powell and Scott MacLeod of Time, "al-Zarqawi was a maddeningly elusive target—a master of disguise who could pass as a woman in a burqa one day, an Iraqi policeman the next." (June 11, 2006)

Oh and for the record, in some places hat are banned for CCTV issues such as Yorkshire.

Yet despite all this the removal of face veil is still a request. Not a law.

Did Bhutto posses you?
No wonder i call you Bibi because in my culture the word Bibi is rarely used.

Tip of the day: start writing bits in Roman Urdu as well when chanced.

 

[Divergent]

Did Bhutto posses you?
No wonder i call you Bibi because in my culture the word Bibi is rarely used.

Tip of the day: start writing bits in Roman Urdu as well when chanced.

Lol is that supposed to be a compliment?

 

[El Sidd]

Lol is that supposed to be a compliment?

If you consider yourself to be a Pakistani. Then yes.
You represent a true leftist progressive Muslim. A rare breed indeed these days.