face of paf if...

[Hell hound]

this is what if scenario and we are taking assumptions that usa would have permitted the sale of f 14 tomcat f 15 eagle or f 16.we were only allowed to chose one of these teen fighters and were also allowed to buy both A10 and E2 with them what would have been the paf capabilities today have we gone for other fighter then f16 with E2 and A10. pls don't troll as E2 and A10 both were offered and we rejected them on god know what bases

 

[Tipu7]

stop dreaming, get real

 

[Hell hound]

stop dreaming, get real

mate i am not dreaming that why i added what if scenario i know it was past 80s is gone but just for the sake of debate what would have happen if we bought these assets in 80s i am not saying that we should buy them today.

 

[MastanKhan]

Paf had screwed up in the 80's---they refused the purchase of Hawkeye and corsair---sheer stupidity on refusing hawkeye---. U S wanted to sell them---.

 

[Hell hound]

Paf had screwed up in the 80's---they refused the purchase of Hawkeye and A10's---sheer stupidity---. U S wanted to sell them---.

sir that's what i am trying to imagine the face of paf today if we had purchased them.but with different teen fighter as f 14 would have been a pure heavy air superiority fighter while A 10 would be handling strike and cap missions or f 15 with advance avionics and air superiority fighter at start but could have been upgraded to do strike missions and having a very good AWACS in 80 would have given us a great head start and would have impacted our then future air doctrine and air procurement

 

[MastanKhan]

sir that's what i am trying to imagine the face of paf today if we had purchased them.but with different teen fighter as f 14 would have been a pure heavy air superiority fighter while A 10 would be handling strike and cap missions or f 15 with advance avionics and air superiority fighter at start but could have been upgraded to do strike missions and having a very good AWACS in 80 would have given us a great head start and would have impacted our then future air doctrine and air procurement

Hi,

Indeed---paf's screw ups are royal----their blunders need to have a book written about it----. Instead of going for the F 16's all out---paf should have gone 50 / 50----half F 16's---haf Mirage 2k's---.

The are screwing up again---. They need to have 1/2 F 16's and 1/2 J10 B's

 

[metronome]

pls don't troll as E2 and A10 both were offered and we rejected them

I know the A10s were deployed to Pakistan in the Afghan war but offered as a sale that was rejected ? got a link to the story ?

 

[Tipu7]

F16 are better options than F14s. Yes we ''missed'' A10s but remember Eagles were offered during Musharaf time but we restricted our selves to F16 thanks to our money bank. All we need is a lot of money. We can easily over come the gaps of 70s and 80s if we manage to achieve more falcons, J10b/c or even J11d....................if u want to dream then dream bigger

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Paf had screwed up in the 80's---they refused the purchase of Hawkeye and A10's---sheer stupidity---. U S wanted to sell them---.

Mastan sir, I agree with you but not entirely, I think it was wise decision back then as after 1990 sanctions. That all would be a junk any how. God knows, how we managed F16s in fly worthy condition during 90s.
PAF would have been better off, if they some how inducted Mirage2000 or other comparable Western plane at that time?

After Soviet break down, there was option of SU27 from Ukraine. I dont know, what that would have turned out to be?

 

[syedali73]

Paf had screwed up in the 80's---they refused the purchase of Hawkeye and A10's---sheer stupidity---. U S wanted to sell them---.

I guess you are referring to A7 Corsairs that were offered in mid 70s by Nixon administration; and no, to my knowledge, Pakistan did not back off but the new Carter administration that had tougher stance on Pakistan's nuclear ambitions. Fast forward early 80s, USSR invaded Afghanistan and Pakistan refused anything less than F-16s and thats how started our three decades long romance with Vipers.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan sir, I agree with you but not entirely, I think it was wise decision back then as after 1990 sanctions. That all would be a junk any how. God knows, how we managed F16s in fly worthy condition during 90s.
PAF would have been better off, if they some how inducted Mirage2000 or other comparable Western plane at that time?

After Soviet break down, there was option of SU27 from Ukraine. I dont know, what that would have turned out to be?

Hi,

I am talking about early 80's---when Pakistani got the approval for the F 16's out of the blue---instead of getting carried away---they should have thought about the strategic implications of what would happen if they did not buy the mirage 2 K.

The purchase of M2K's when it came out would have the best decision. India would not have bought that aircraft---india could not get the F16---so they would have been stuck with the Russian aircraft or the british.

Paf had created a drama that they did not have aircraft to counter the soviet incursions---their mirages were doing a great job---as a matter of fact the first victories were achieved by the mirages----flown by guess who.

They again screwed up---when they did not accept the delivery of 18 J 10B's and that also came with aesa----.

 

[Slav Defence]

I have learned that instead of buying so called cheap technology (the obsolete ones) ,it is far better to save some $$ and buy upgraded technology. During 1980s, it was far important to develop nuclear technology rather than depending on US offer (A7 corsairs) etc.
I am very much convinced, that we must negotiate for F-22 .However,I find this impossible because US seems to have very strict stance.Hence,again we are back to China who offers J-20 which seems to have similar design as compare to F-22.
Regards

 

[Viper0011.]

I guess you are referring to A7 Corsairs that were offered in mid 70s by Nixon administration; and no, to my knowledge, Pakistan did not back off but the new Carter administration that had tougher stance on Pakistan's nuclear ambitions.

He's referring to the 80's. The A-10 were offered with the Hawkeye. The manufacturers were hoping that Hawkeye would turn into a F-14 sale and some F-16's. PAF's ego didn't like the Hawkeye's as they didn't want a smaller "AEW" aircraft and wanted a real AWACS like the ones the USAF was using. So everything was pretty much rejected by Pakistan.

This doesn't mean the -16's are a bad choice, till date those are the most advanced fighters in this region. But Hawkeye, A-10 and -14's would've provided a HUGE capability that otherwise took the PAF 30 years to get to, and still not exactly there yet....

I am very much convinced, that we must negotiate for F-22 .However,I find this impossible because US seems to have very strict stance.Hence,again we are back to China who offers J-20 which seems to have similar design as compare to F-22. Regards

You are serious right? I don't think the US wants to even hear the sentence "We want the -22's" from anyone. They heard it from Israel and Japan due to the top level relationship and still declined. But....Pakistan?? You need to first improve your economy, get your economy into the top 20 economies so the US has a larger trade and business relationship with you. Then, may be the need or ask for -35 could be entertained for discussions IMO. The -22 is so off the reservation for Pakistan that it's useless to even write about it.

 

[Shabi1]

PAF was offered the A-7 and then again in the 80s to defend against a possible Soviet attack via Afghanistan was offered F-5s, A-10s and Hawkeyes. Pakistan refused and lobbied for a multirole platform like the F-16 or F-18.

Once the F-16 was available there was no use in acquiring F-5s and A-10s. And there is no argument that the F-16 was the best choice and had the most effectiveness.

The only mistakes I think PAF planners made was not to acquire Mirage F-1s, had they been inducted they would have been upgradable to greater extent than the Mirage 3/5. Similarly the FBC-1/JH-7 would have been an excellent ground/naval strike platform if it was acquired when it first offered.

Now with the JF-17 and more F-16 inductions going on the only thing PAF needs to consider is to get a dedicated air superiority/interception aircraft.

 

[Slav Defence]

He's referring to the 80's. The A-10 were offered with the Hawkeye. The manufacturers were hoping that Hawkeye would turn into a F-14 sale and some F-16's. PAF's ego didn't like the Hawkeye's as they didn't want a smaller "AEW" aircraft and wanted a real AWACS like the ones the USAF was using. So everything was pretty much rejected by Pakistan.

This doesn't mean the -16's are a bad choice, till date those are the most advanced fighters in this region. But Hawkeye, A-10 and -14's would've provided a HUGE capability that otherwise took the PAF 30 years to get to, and still not exactly there yet....



You are serious right? I don't think the US wants to even hear the sentence "We want the -22's" from anyone. They heard it from Israel and Japan due to the top level relationship and still declined. But....Pakistan?? You need to first improve your economy, get your economy into the top 20 economies so the US has a larger trade and business relationship with you. Then, may be the need or ask for -35 could be entertained for discussions IMO. The -22 is so off the reservation for Pakistan that it's useless to even write about it.

Read my post again:

"However,I find this impossible because US seems to have very strict stance."

That is our problem.We give up before even thinking of possible outcomes.Pakistan needs to act in same way as Chinese did.Get your hands on blue print design and draw your own technology.Stop relying on US.Establish,upgrade and replenish your own avionic industry.
Regards