F7PG The Nimble PAF Fighter Nobody Talks About

[Blacklight]

A question though & if anyone can help me understand this...if F-7pg / J-7 is the licensed built version of Mig21, why can't we get the upgrades done on ours

@HRK @Blacklight

From China? or Russia?

If it is China, then maybe they dont to waste time over a relic, for them bringing JH-7 into this century might be a more reasonable priority.

Ivan on the other hand wants to loosen the vice from his precious jewels, but dehati aurat, low oil prices, corruption, weak sales prospect from us, all contribute to a lukewarm response. (ignore what the multanis have inducted fairly recently)

Best if we focus on our Thunder, in my book, it at least does 100% of what an f16 can do in the A2A role. Whereas the F7's only claim to glory is WVR. A situation that may arise, but chances of that happening have gone down, with BVR being the primary tactic.

Moving them into long term storage like our Fantans, would be a good idea.

 

[HRK]

A question though & if anyone can help me understand this...if F-7pg / J-7 is the licensed built version of Mig21, why can't we get the upgrades done on ours

@HRK @Blacklight

F-7PG is already an upgraded version with HUD and lookdown shot down radar with around +50 KM air to air search range, we can say theoretically these aircrafts are limited BVR capable and fall under true 3+ generation aircrafts in terms of avionics.

for reference of aircraft generation

limitation of F-7 series is more related to the airframe design and limited availability of space for upgrades, for example theoretically we can install RD-93 with our F-7 and F-7PGs as explain here, but would not be feasible on financial grounds and probably would not offer much in term of performance

 

[Armchair]

Would be interesting if not only the 50 or so PGs are upgraded, but if more are acquired. Armed with the PL10 and an HMD, a total of 6 squadrons could be tasked with:

1. Close air support as an alternative to buying attack helicopters. Armed with PGMs and cluster bombs, they would be deadly.

2. Routine intercepts particularly in the Western frontier

3. WVR ambush tactics at low level, in conjunction with JFTs/F16s

 

[notorious_eagle]

Honorable Sir,

Why do we think that India will only send Jaguars & Mig-21s to Pakistan? Not counting the Rafael; India has about 270 Su-30s, about 65 Mig-29s, and nearly 50 Mirages 2000s. Don't you think that Su-30s & Mig-29s will provide fighter cover to the Indian Jaguars?

PAF F-16 fleet numbers about 83; this means that Thunders & F-7PGs would also have to face SU-30s & MiG-29's, albeit inside Pakistan air space.

You are welcome to believe what you will, but the fact remains that the PAF Mirages, as well as F-7s, are there to make up the numbers until sufficient numbers of Thunders become available.

Sir

My belief is based on my conversations with PG's and F16 drivers. If the PG's are capable enough of engaging and dueling the F16's in a WVR fight, what makes you think it will not be capable of engaging the SU30MKI, MIG29 and M2K. A Lima or a Piranha does not distinguish between a SU30MKI, MIG29 or M2K. Aircrafts don't duel each other 1 on 1 anymore, but rather they fight as part of a collective force bigger force. PAF intends to employ the PG's where they are at a maximum advantage rather then fly them blind towards India.

Also going by Indian narrative their Mig-21's comms were jammed, which resulted in their pilot crossing LOC.

That was utter stupidity on the Indian side but they were desperate as they launched Bison's in an environment with high ECM. That being said, if the Bisons were employed in a Point Defence role, they would be much more potent.

What king of ECM capability does the PG has?

From what i remember, they have internal ECM and Datalink allowing them better situational awareness. The smartest thing PAF has done is to build a very robust and top notch C4I network, allowing majority of PAF's assets to data-link with each other. This allows platforms such as PG's to benefit from the force multipliers increasing its potency many folds.

Here's an example, no doubt the SU30MKI's radar is superior and extremely potent, but PAF's radar network could look deep inside India which meant all of the PAF's airborne assets could see and track exactly where the SU30MKI and Mirage 2000's were. I am sure Noman would have been smirking when he launched his AMRAAM as WC Abhi was trying to be cheeky and flying low in hopes of avoiding PAF's radars, little did they knew PAF has invested quite heavily to close its previous gaps in radar coverage for low flying objects.

 

[HRK]

what makes you think it will not be capable of engaging the SU30MKI, MIG29 and M2K

Their survivability in BVR before the WVR merger, here we need to understand that any strike force of IAF would have escort of BVR fighters to keep the interceptors away from strike package so in this case exactly same scenario would occur with our F-7 what happened to IAF MiG-21 Bison in Feb last year.

nd Datalink allowing them better situational awareness.

F-7s are also capable of Data linking ....?? great news if true

 

[notorious_eagle]

Their survivability in BVR before the WVR merger, here we need to understand that any strike force of IAF would have escort of BVR fighters to keep the interceptors away from strike package so in this case exactly same scenario would occur with our F-7 what happened to IAF MiG-21 Bison in Feb last year.

In that scenario, i am assuming PAF's interception package would include both WVR and BVR response.

F-7s are also capable of Data linking ....?? great news if true

That's what i was told the PG's were capable of data-linking. Same case with some of the Mirages, certainly not the entire fleet.

 

[Zarvan]

In times of BVR these Jets are thing of past. So we need to increase JF 17 production and replace these Jets as fast as we could.

 

[Armchair]

F-7PGs will not accompany a strike package. They are designed for point defense and they can be used for ambushing ingressing IAF fighters.

This strategy can be observed during any escalation period, you will see the F-16s and JFT flying at altitude while the F-7PG will be seen flying low near, say Lahore.

The clutter would hide the PGs, which could then become a dagger in the back for an IAF ingressing strike package.

 

[Zephyrus]

In times of BVR these Jets are thing of past. So we need to increase JF 17 production and replace these Jets as fast as we could.

while we are at it we should phase out AIM9s and PL5s as well; ajeeb baatien krtay ho yaar :/

F7PG has a very small rcs; is very fast; makes for an excellent interceptor; BVR still isn't everything.

 

[Ali_Baba]

F-7PG is already an upgraded version with HUD and lookdown shot down radar with around +50 KM air to air search range, we can say theoretically these aircrafts are limited BVR capable and fall under true 3+ generation aircrafts in terms of avionics.
View attachment 620959

This picture is an exclusive, first time it has been shown anywhere...

 

[Zephyrus]

You know what grinds my gears? Friction

anyhow getting to the point; F7PG is a very potent aircraft; it has a tiny RCS and can carry AIM9s and PL5s;
In air combat it doesn't matter what aircraft you're flying; if you get painted by the enemy radar you wouldn't care which so ever radar paints you; you'll start sweating immediately and will hightail; this was clearly seen during the February escalations. Indian air force had better jets but they were at a disadvantage

 

[Invicta]

Sir

My belief is based on my conversations with PG's and F16 drivers. If the PG's are capable enough of engaging and dueling the F16's in a WVR fight, what makes you think it will not be capable of engaging the SU30MKI, MIG29 and M2K. A Lima or a Piranha does not distinguish between a SU30MKI, MIG29 or M2K. Aircrafts don't duel each other 1 on 1 anymore, but rather they fight as part of a collective force bigger force. PAF intends to employ the PG's where they are at a maximum advantage rather then fly them blind towards India.



That was utter stupidity on the Indian side but they were desperate as they launched Bison's in an environment with high ECM. That being said, if the Bisons were employed in a Point Defence role, they would be much more potent.



From what i remember, they have internal ECM and Datalink allowing them better situational awareness. The smartest thing PAF has done is to build a very robust and top notch C4I network, allowing majority of PAF's assets to data-link with each other. This allows platforms such as PG's to benefit from the force multipliers increasing its potency many folds.

Here's an example, no doubt the SU30MKI's radar is superior and extremely potent, but PAF's radar network could look deep inside India which meant all of the PAF's airborne assets could see and track exactly where the SU30MKI and Mirage 2000's were. I am sure Noman would have been smirking when he launched his AMRAAM as WC Abhi was trying to be cheeky and flying low in hopes of avoiding PAF's radars, little did they knew PAF has invested quite heavily to close its previous gaps in radar coverage for low flying objects.

Thanks for the information, I was aware of the information that PAF were using datalink specific to F16's on SAB2000 and using the chinese AWACS for datalinking the chinese/homegrown assets, I was not aware that they had integrated cross platform. That would be incredible and would truly class as a potent force multiplier.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

The BAFs improved J-7BGI variant looks mean.

This video claims they are BVR capable and can be equipped with PL-12(SD 10).

What is the missile on this aircraft?

 

[ali_raza]

From China? or Russia?

If it is China, then maybe they dont to waste time over a relic, for them bringing JH-7 into this century might be a more reasonable priority.

Ivan on the other hand wants to loosen the vice from his precious jewels, but dehati aurat, low oil prices, corruption, weak sales prospect from us, all contribute to a lukewarm response. (ignore what the multanis have inducted fairly recently)

Best if we focus on our Thunder, in my book, it at least does 100% of what an f16 can do in the A2A role. Whereas the F7's only claim to glory is WVR. A situation that may arise, but chances of that happening have gone down, with BVR being the primary tactic.

Moving them into long term storage like our Fantans, would be a good idea.

pm me

 

[TheTallGuy]

This picture is an exclusive, first time it has been shown anywhere...

100% sure....not a PAF F-7PG