F35 JSF Stealth or How the West was Lost

[dbc]

Yes I have assumed this as the Chinese would not be so stupid not to make the J-31 have these parameters.

How long can a Chinese J-31 sustain Mach 1.6? Do you know? How much time it take to reach its top speed? At what altitude? Has Lockheed or the Pentagon ever released these facts about the F-35, have the Chinese? Now assume the F-35's top speed is Mach 1.6 at 200 feet. How much do you think it will be at 30,000 feet? Do you even know the MACH number varies with altitude? LM or Pentagon have stated the top speed of the F-35 is Mach >1.6. This information is for public consumption. Top speed is never stated in Mach number to professionals. This is because the top speed in Mach is useless unless the altitude is disclosed.

Do you know what happens to an aircraft when its flying at Mach 1.6? Do you know if weapons can be released at that speed? What is the speed or flight envelop restriction if any for weapons release? Assume the J-31 can sustain Mach 3 but what can it do at that speed? At what cost? Is it operationally relevant? So if top speed is the only criteria for performance then the SR-71 is unbeatable - right?

 

[UKBengali]

Fact: J-31 is a ripoff of F-35, except that it has 2x8,300 = 16,600 kg engines instead of one 18,144 kg engine for F-35.

So there is no reason to assume that J-31 will be faster, more maneuverable and more stealthy than F-35. Quite on contrary.

You only are getting the F-35 as the F-22 was refused to you.

Japan also wanted the F-22 as well but again was refused.

Speaks volumes for the confidence that customers have in F-35!

How long can a Chinese J-31 sustain Mach 1.6? Do you know? How much time it take to reach its top speed? At what altitude? Has Lockheed or the Pentagon ever released these facts about the F-35, have the Chinese? Now assume the F-35's top speed is Mach 1.6 at 200 feet. How much do you think it will be at 30,000 feet? Do you even know the MACH number varies with altitude? LM or Pentagon have stated the top speed of the F-35 is Mach >1.6. This information is for public consumption. Top speed is never stated in Mach number to professionals. This is because the top speed in Mach is useless unless the altitude is disclosed.

Do you know what happens to an aircraft when its flying at Mach 1.6? Do you know if weapons can be released at that speed? What is the speed or flight envelop restriction if any for weapons release? Assume the J-31 can sustain Mach 3 but what can it do at that speed? At what cost? Is it operationally relevant? So if top speed is the only criteria for performance then the SR-71 is unbeatable - right?

You are missing the Point.

The F-35 was deliberately turned into a jack of all trades fighter/bomber and master of none.

This means that it is compromised in top speed, manoeuvrability and stealth.

Fighters like J-31 will be optimised for air-superiority and hence will not have the limitations when it comes to air-combat

The US could have built a great fighter in the F-35 but it chose not to mainly due to arrogance and complacency.

If you will not listen to me then listen to the likes of Carlo Knapp and the guy in that video - they both say the F-35 is a pile of junk and only the F-22 will do.

Gambit and all Indians are ignored from now on.

 

[Esc8781]

Fact 1: F-35 has top speed to only Mach 1.6

Fully combat loaded.Meaning its striking speed.

Fact 2: F-35 is poor at maneuverability

I remember the news of the F-35's downgraded spec, but what about the operating altitude and at what speed etc, losing half of g's is really nothing. Remember the F-35A reached a G limit of 9 and AoA of 73 degrees.

Fact 3: It's stealth is not as good as the US could have made it.

And give up combat effectiveness, I don't think so. The F-35 wasn't designed to be as stealthy as the F-22.

Really it's only trump card against a fighter like J-31 would be it's probably better electronics but that would probably not be that much as the Chinese are progressing leaps and bounds in this area.

Uh huh. I remember an EF-111 in the gulf war that held its own ground against a Mirage or Mig can't remember.

I don't need the specs of the J-31 to know that it would slaughter the F-35 time after time.

Yep this is called bias.

will repeat US arrogance has led to the disaster that is the F-35.

So you can say it for the F-16 program. Search up its early days and you'll see how a disaster the F-16 was.

Oh yeah I forgot. Because the F-35's sh!tty engines, it hovered for ten minutes.

 

[UKBengali]

Fully combat loaded.Meaning its striking speed.

I remember the news of the F-35's downgraded spec, but what about the operating altitude and at what speed etc, losing half of g's is really nothing. Remember the F-35A reached a G limit of 9 and AoA of 73 degrees.

And give up combat effectiveness, I don't think so. The F-35 wasn't designed to be as stealthy as the F-22.

Uh huh. I remember an EF-111 in the gulf war that held its own ground against a Mirage or Mig can't remember.

Yep this is called bias.

So you can say it for the F-16 program. Search up its early days and you'll see how a disaster the F-16 was.

Oh yeah I forgot. Because the F-35's sh!tty engines, it hovered for ten minutes.

What I mean is that the US could have made the F-35 stealthier but chose not to. US has the best stealth tech in the world but chose not to apply it in the case of the F-35 due to a multitude of reasons.

And it is not fair to compare what happened in the Gulf war as the US had so many other advantages like at least a gen in tech over the Iraqis and the use of AWACs systems that Iraq did not have. Around half a generation in avionics tech advantage can be expected for the F-35s avionics over the J-31 fighter and that would not be nearly enough to compensate it for all the other disadvantages that it has.

 

[gambit]

How long can a Chinese J-31 sustain Mach 1.6? Do you know? How much time it take to reach its top speed? At what altitude? Has Lockheed or the Pentagon ever released these facts about the F-35, have the Chinese? Now assume the F-35's top speed is Mach 1.6 at 200 feet. How much do you think it will be at 30,000 feet? Do you even know the MACH number varies with altitude? LM or Pentagon have stated the top speed of the F-35 is Mach >1.6. This information is for public consumption. Top speed is never stated in Mach number to professionals. This is because the top speed in Mach is useless unless the altitude is disclosed.

Do you know what happens to an aircraft when its flying at Mach 1.6? Do you know if weapons can be released at that speed? What is the speed or flight envelop restriction if any for weapons release? Assume the J-31 can sustain Mach 3 but what can it do at that speed? At what cost? Is it operationally relevant? So if top speed is the only criteria for performance then the SR-71 is unbeatable - right?

Laws of physics? They are nothing but pests to him. At worst minor annoyances to his 'logic'.

 

[moon_light]

Fact 1: F-35 has top speed to only Mach 1.6

top speed isnot important , the important thing is your cruise speed ,and the speed at which you can launch missiles which we dont know if j-31 is any better

Fact 2: F-35 is poor at maneuverability

wrong , poor compared to what ?
if you think the f-35 have poor agility because of the public low g sustained then read this

the low sustain g number of f-35 mean nothing unless you put it in specific situation
Example f-16 is very agile but in some situation

At near the speed of sound and at an altitude of 25,000 feet, the HiMAT vehicle could substain an 8-G turn (that is, one producing acceleration equal to 8 times that of gravity). By comparison, at the same altitude, an F-16's maximum sustained turning capability is about 4.5 Gs

.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-025-DFRC.html

if you think f-35 isnot agile because it have high wing loading and low T/w then look at the f-16 vs f-15 , the f-16 have higher wing loading and lower T/W but it will eat f-15 any time in dogfight
moreover since no aircraft now able to out maneuver missiles like aim-9x , aim-132 the dogfight will mostly decided by who shoot first and as the F-35 have the DAS it will have advantages against j-31 ( also IIR missiles is immune to flares so the DIRCM on f-35 will give it a huge advantages against j-31 )

Fact 3: It's stealth is not as good as the US could have made it.

Really it's only trump card against a fighter like J-31 would be it's probably better electronics but that would probably not be that much as the Chinese are progressing leaps and bounds in this area.

I don't need the specs of the J-31 to know that it would slaughter the F-35 time after time.

I will repeat US arrogance has led to the disaster that is the F-35.

the f-35 not as good as the USA can make it but remembered it still have RCS = 0.001 m2 which is very low for even super strong radar like the Zaslon-M or the irbis-e left alone j-31 small radar ( btw i doubt the j-31 can match f-35 rcs or radar power ) and if the two aircraft have equal RCS the one with better electronic will have the advantages
last but not least you have nothing to support the idea that the j-31 will be superior to f-35 in kinematic or even able to match it's LO aspect

AWACSs today like E-2C Hawkeye 2000 and E-3C are capable to the detect the target of RCS = 1m2 class 250~300 km away.




And their maximal effective detection range to the fighters in the world should be:




* F-15C & Su-27 (RCS = 10~15m2): 450 ~ 600 km
* Tornado (RCS = 8 m2): 420 ~ 500 km
* MIG-29 (RCS = 5 m2): 370 ~ 450 km
* F/A-18C (RCS = 3 m2): 330 ~ 395 km
* F-16C (RCS = 1.2 m2): 260 ~ 310 km
* JAS39 (RCS = 0.5 m2): 210 ~ 250 km
* Su-47 (RCS = 0.3 m2): 185 ~ 220 km
* Rafale (RCS = 0.1~0.2 m2): 140 ~ 200 km
* F-18E (RCS = 0.1 m2): 140 ~ 170 km
* MIG-42 (RCS = 0.1 m2): 140 ~ 170 km
* EF2K (RCS = 0.05~0.1 m2): 120 ~ 170 km
* F-35A (RCS = 0.0015 m2): 50 ~ 60 km
* F/A-22 (RCS < or = 0.0002~0.0005 m2): < or = 30 ~ 45 km

What I mean is that the US could have made the F-35 stealthier but chose not to. US has the best stealth tech in the world but chose not to apply it in the case of the F-35 due to a multitude of reasons.

And it is not fair to compare what happened in the Gulf war as the US had so many other advantages like at least a gen in tech over the Iraqis and the use of AWACs systems that Iraq did not have. Around half a generation in avionics tech advantage can be expected for the F-35s avionics over the J-31 fighter and that would not be nearly enough to compensate it for all the other disadvantages that it has.

this is BS nothing back up your claim of j-31 have anything superior , moreover f-35 isnot as stealth as the f-22 but it stealth enough

 

[moon_light]

The F-35 was deliberately turned into a jack of all trades fighter/bomber and master of none.

this is BS , almost every single fighter flying today can do both AA and AG even the f-22 will have thatability in future

This means that it is compromised in top speed, manoeuvrability and stealth.

wrong f-35 compromised in top speed, maneuvrability for stealth but it have DAS , DIRCM , hobs missiles to solve these compromises and j-31 will have to do the same

Fighters like J-31 will be optimised for air-superiority and hence will not have the limitations when it comes to air-combat

BS said who ? you ? , and what exactly do you even know about the performance of j-31

If you will not listen to me then listen to the likes of Carlo Knapp and the guy in that video - they both say the F-35 is a pile of junk and only the F-22 will do.

Carlo Knapp lolol his article is completely piece of junk man , every normal people can realise how biased he is

btw you should see this it address some of his biased against f-35 youtube.com/watch?v=lT8_9hhMEMw

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

The whole project ended up going to dogs! It was like a pie and the sky man. That's the reason why the US keeps borrowing money from China & KSA.

But here is the question for you folks?
Why does the US often accuses China for stealing intellectual properties? LoL.

Epic failure.

 

[moon_light]

The whole project ended up going to dogs! It was like a pie and the sky man. That's the reason why the US keeps borrowing money from China & KSA.

But here is the question for you folks?
Why does the US keeps pressing its groundless accusation on China for stealing intellectual properties? LoL.

Epic failure.

what you mean ?

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

what you mean ?

The U.S. Navy is carefully backing away from the troubled F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program &#8212; and putting in place a backup plan in case the trillion-dollar, jack-of-all-trades stealth jet can&#8217;t recover from mounting technical and budgetary woes. So much for the F-35 being too big to fail.

The Navy&#8217;s Plan B is still taking shape. But its outlines are coming into view, thanks in large part to recent comments from its top officer. It involves fewer F-35s (the Navy&#8217;ll still buy some) and more copies of the older Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet carrier-based fighter, which the Lockheed Martin-built F-35 was originally meant to replace. In the unlikely event the F-35C &#8212; the naval version of the radar-evading plane &#8212; gets canceled, the Super Hornet could be upgraded past its current shelf life. The twin-engine F/A-18E/F is already getting new weapons. Extra fuel tanks and some stealth treatments could be added as well.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

 

[moon_light]

The U.S. Navy is carefully backing away from the troubled F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program &#8212; and putting in place a backup plan in case the trillion-dollar, jack-of-all-trades stealth jet can&#8217;t recover from mounting technical and budgetary woes. So much for the F-35 being too big to fail.

the airforce and marine still buy f-35 , the navy still buy f-35 but now they buy more f-18e/f just because of the delay

The Navy&#8217;s Plan B is still taking shape. But its outlines are coming into view, thanks in large part to recent comments from its top officer. It involves fewer F-35s (the Navy&#8217;ll still buy some) and more copies of the older Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet carrier-based fighter, which the Lockheed Martin-built F-35 was originally meant to replace. In the unlikely event the F-35C &#8212; the naval version of the radar-evading plane &#8212; gets canceled, the Super Hornet could be upgraded past its current shelf life. The twin-engine F/A-18E/F is already getting new weapons. Extra fuel tanks and some stealth treatments could be added as well.

no evident of f-35 get canceled , and btw j-31/20 and t-50 not any better , they still far behind in testing stage

about your video calling the f-35 a failure without any support point no other aircraft seem to be better than f-35 except the f-22 so i dont see how it can be a failure , btw almost every weapon program will suffer from delay and technical issue in testing phase , may be you should read more about f-18e , f-111 , f-15 ..etc