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F16/BLOCK 70 in USA Magazine

you know where pakistan lacks!!! a poor country always goes unheard in the world!! INDIA HAS THE CASH....and besides possesing a nuclear capablity and being a muslim country we cannot think the world will be unbias towards us...!! so accept it the only deterrance we have against india is non conventional!!
 
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you know where pakistan lacks!!! a poor country always goes unheard in the world!! INDIA HAS THE CASH....and besides possesing a nuclear capablity and being a muslim country we cannot think the world will be unbias towards us...!! so accept it the only deterrance we have against india is non conventional!!

Yes Indians have always toped rank
  1. Poverty rank 76%+
  2. Tops the Racial attacks rank
  3. State terrorism rank
  4. State supported killings of innocent civilians just because they are not Hindu fantastic
  5. Tops because of having largest terrorist supporting and training organization Indian army to kill innocent Pakistani and non Hindu civilians
  6. Tops in supporting terrorism in other countries
  7. And list goes on to infinity

Any specific reason of you posting this super thought of yours here? it makes no relation to the thread at all:hitwall::hitwall:

So if you want to discuss how India gets attention through killing innocent Pakistani and non Hindu civilians you should start a different thread and discuss it to hell
 
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In reply to HJ786.


LCA tejas is currently flying with a underpowered GE 404 engine from USA.

The IAF have stated that a new engine will be required they are looking at

both the french M88 & the GE414. ON BOTH accounts HAL/DRDO have confirmed that tranche 2 LCA will take 3 additional years to intergrate and modify the fuselage..for either of these engines.

At this moment in time JF17 has no composite materials unlike Typhoon Rafael Gripen & YES TEJAS...

To build a fighter using compsites you need the technology in the First place.

DOES pakistan have this technology to add/ change JF17 from alloys metal to composites ????

" you make it sound easy HJ786"

yet india a NATION with a huge air force budget and far more access to western technology is struggling to make the changes to TEJAS without serious delays.

JF17 today is a 3RD GENERATION FIGHTER. why

NIL COMPSITES , single FBW only
smokey russian RD93 engine and chinease radar & weapons.

PAFS best fighter is still those 44 F16 block15 which are now 25 YEARS OLD

PAF will upgade JF17 i know that otherwise by the time you have inducted 100+ ie IN YEAR 2015 it will be totally outgunned by IAF which will field SU30MKI in massive nos & have MMRCA and upgraded MIRAGE2000-5

BUT it will be costly and a lengthy excercise and i doubt it will be better than BLOCK52s F16....

" REMEMBER EVEN BANGALDESH has rejected JF17 in favour of the J10
 
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In reply to HJ786.
LCA tejas is currently flying with a underpowered GE 404 engine from USA.
The IAF have stated that a new engine will be required they are looking at
both the french M88 & the GE414. ON BOTH accounts HAL/DRDO have confirmed that tranche 2 LCA will take 3 additional years to intergrate and modify the fuselage..for either of these engines.

At this moment in time JF17 has no composite materials unlike Typhoon Rafael Gripen & YES TEJAS... To build a fighter using compsites you need the technology in the First place.
DOES pakistan have this technology to add/ change JF17 from alloys metal to composites ????

" you make it sound easy HJ786"
yet india a NATION with a huge air force budget and far more access to western technology is struggling to make the changes to TEJAS without serious delays.

JF17 today is a 3RD GENERATION FIGHTER. why
NIL COMPSITES , single FBW only
smokey russian RD93 engine and chinease radar & weapons.

PAFS best fighter is still those 44 F16 block15 which are now 25 YEARS OLD
PAF will upgade JF17 i know that otherwise by the time you have inducted 100+ ie IN YEAR 2015 it will be totally outgunned by IAF which will field SU30MKI in massive nos & have MMRCA and upgraded MIRAGE2000-5
BUT it will be costly and a lengthy excercise and i doubt it will be better than BLOCK52s F16....
" REMEMBER EVEN BANGALDESH has rejected JF17 in favour of the J10

Why do you keep repeating the same crap when I have already replied to it all? Do you read my posts properly? Also, can you please use paragraphs in your posts?

Firstly, are you seriously comparing HAL/DODO with Chengdu Aircraft Corporation? You just proved you don't know anything. Hmm, J-10 compared to LCA. Don't make me laugh. :rolleyes:
FC-1 is designed to take different engines. I know you don't like to admit facts. You have absolutely no idea how long it would take to integrate a new engine to FC-1. NONE WHATSOEVER. Stop talking like an expert, you aren't one.

Why do you keep crying about composites? Firstly, J-10 and J-11 use lots of composites. Even if PAC cannot manufacture composite parts, they can get them from China.
Secondly, if Pakistan cannot manufacture composite parts, how can they manufacture their indigenous UAVs that are MADE OF COMPOSITES?

INTEGRATED DYNAMICS :: Shadow UAV System
The SHADOW UAV systems were specially developed to cover a customer requirement for a family of modular composite airframes that could provide tactical surveillance...

I don't give a sh*t about India struggling with LCA! What does it matter if India has "far more access to western technology"? India NEEDS western technology, thats why! China does not.
FC-1, J-10, These aircraft are finished! India can only dream of making indigenous aircraft like these. India is not in the same league as China in aircraft design, so STOP shouting that delays with LCA means delays with FC-1. You know people call it Late Combat Aircraft?

You don't know anything about what makes a fighter 3rd or 4th generation. So what if FC-1/JF-17 has partial FBW? JF is a 4th generation fighter because it has EVERYTHING that defines a 4th generation fighter - sensor fusion (glass cockpit, integrated MAWS/EW/ECM, data-linking), high performance (TWR 0.95), high speed agility (confirmed by test pilots to be comparable to F-16A), advanced radar (confirmed by test pilots to be superior to APG-66 of F-16A), true multi-role capabilities, the list can go on.

By the way, did you know Mig-29 has no FBW? YES, YOUR BIG BAD 4TH GEN FIGHTER HAS NO FBW, but you guys say its performance is better than F-16. That means JF's performance can be better than F-16 too. It also proves you don't know what you are talking about.

The smokey Russian engine will be replaced in a few years by WS-13 or a European engine, both will be superior to RD-93. I have already said that the smokey Russian engine gives JF a slightly higher TWR than the 4th gen Mirage 2000C! :lol: You really aren't bothering to read my posts are you?

Who cares if Bangladesh wants J-10 instead of FC-1? Pakistan is also buying J-10. PAF has already evaluated it. If J-10 is so much better than JF-17, why didn't PAF stop buying JF and buy more J-10? Instead, PAF increased the number of JF-17 they want from 250 to 275!

You don't know what you are talking about AND you don't bother reading my posts. You always post rubbish. Please just stop and do some research. Everything I have stated is available on the internet - wikipedia, sinodefence, milavia, lots and lots of websites are full of information. Why do you only believe what the idiots on IDF and BRF say?
 
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hj786

Couple of points.

I did not mention MIG29. in any conversation. MIG29 is 23 years service in IAF.

MIG29 is to IAF like PAFS F7PG.. ( 2nd string) it will be replaced by SU30MKI in next 5 years max and they only have 63 planes in service..

SU30 MKI is the only 4th generation fighter in IAF approx 4.5 SQUADRONS ie 90 planes as we speak.

All other planes in IAF are 3RD/2ND generation including mirage2000 & mig29

In the PAF the F16 block 15 IS A 3rd generation fighter

ALL THE OTHERS F7 A5 & mirage 5/3 ARE 2ND GENERATION.

Don,t shoot the messenger please

but JF17 is not in the tech class of Typhoon Rafael Grippen or even J10...

it is a " low cost mrca" designed by china for export to developing countries on small budgets who can not afford western 4TH GENERATION MRCAs

The JF17 is available for export BY CHINA to any developing country that wants this low cost option @ $15 million per copy.

J10 $30M

su30 mki costs $40m

Gripen $50m

Rafael $65m

Typhoon $100m


HJ786 this is just a debate and this is my strong opinion...

but we can agree to disagree it no issue
 
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hj786

Couple of points.

I did not mention MIG29. in any conversation. MIG29 is 23 years service in IAF.

MIG29 is to IAF like PAFS F7PG.. ( 2nd string) it will be replaced by SU30MKI in next 5 years max and they only have 63 planes in service..

SU30 MKI is the only 4th generation fighter in IAF approx 4.5 SQUADRONS ie 90 planes as we speak.

All other planes in IAF are 3RD/2ND generation including mirage2000 & mig29

In the PAF the F16 block 15 IS A 3rd generation fighter

ALL THE OTHERS F7 A5 & mirage 5/3 ARE 2ND GENERATION.

Don,t shoot the messenger please

but JF17 is not in the tech class of Typhoon Rafael Grippen or even J10...

it is a " low cost mrca" designed by china for export to developing countries on small budgets who can not afford western 4TH GENERATION MRCAs

The JF17 is available for export BY CHINA to any developing country that wants this low cost option @ $15 million per copy.

J10 $30M

su30 mki costs $40m

Gripen $50m

Rafael $65m

Typhoon $100m


HJ786 this is just a debate and this is my strong opinion...

but we can agree to disagree it no issue

Glassing of the cockpit, avionics etc. are what decide whether the aircraft is 2nd, 3rd or 4/4.5 generation. ECM, FLIR, AI radars on the upgraded Mirages bring these aircraft easily into the 3rd generation tier.

Secondly, the idea of JF-17 is to avoid the high costs associated with buying contemporary western fighters but not end up with a technically inferior aircraft. There is a big difference in terms of what will be on the JF-17 vs. FC-1 which is the export version. To bring the point home, the F-7PG version of the F-7MG (export designation) in use with the PAF has over 40 differences ranging from minor to very significant ones in terms of avionics and weapons integration. The same, albeit at a much greater scale, would be the case with the JF-17s in the PAF service. With what is on the JF-17 road map, 4th generation is a foregone conclusion as is the case with all of the F-16s being upgraded and purchased. The difference between 4th and 4.5 gen aircraft is the avionics. The JF-17 is suppose to have an AESA capability in the future along with IRST, HMC and pods for ECM and targeting. This is pretty much what you have on most of the other 4-4.5 generation aircraft. The weapons package that is being discussed is what is being deployed on aircraft such as Typhoon and Rafale. So not too shabby an aircraft. By the time the aircraft realizes all of its capabilities, it wont be less than $20 million/aircraft.

PAF can integrate these capabilities piecemeal and avoid the higher costs of similar aircraft with such systems in the West.
 
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hj786
Couple of points.
I did not mention MIG29. in any conversation. MIG29 is 23 years service in IAF.
MIG29 is to IAF like PAFS F7PG.. ( 2nd string) it will be replaced by SU30MKI in next 5 years max and they only have 63 planes in service..
SU30 MKI is the only 4th generation fighter in IAF approx 4.5 SQUADRONS ie 90 planes as we speak.
All other planes in IAF are 3RD/2ND generation including mirage2000 & mig29
In the PAF the F16 block 15 IS A 3rd generation fighter
ALL THE OTHERS F7 A5 & mirage 5/3 ARE 2ND GENERATION.
Don,t shoot the messenger please
but JF17 is not in the tech class of Typhoon Rafael Grippen or even J10...
it is a " low cost mrca" designed by china for export to developing countries on small budgets who can not afford western 4TH GENERATION MRCAs
The JF17 is available for export BY CHINA to any developing country that wants this low cost option @ $15 million per copy.
J10 $30M
su30 mki costs $40m
Gripen $50m
Rafael $65m
Typhoon $100m
HJ786 this is just a debate and this is my strong opinion...
but we can agree to disagree it no issue

Of course we must agree to disagree, you refuse to acknowledge the plain simple facts! How can I be shooting the messenger? You can't be a messenger when your messages do not make sense! You have mentioned Mig-29 previously many times, just check any of your last few posts.

I never said JF is in tech class of Typhoon or Rafale. I said that with upgrades to avionics, radar and weaponry, it can be in the near future - you have said this yourself. You are wrong about Super-7/FC-1, it was designed by China to create an F-7 replacement smaller and cheaper than J-10 but the PAF made them redesign/upgrade the original version of Super-7/FC-1 into a basic 4th gen combat aircraft - the latest version of JF-17.

"it is a " low cost mrca" designed by china for export to developing countries on small budgets who can not afford western 4TH GENERATION MRCAs"

OMG did you finally admit JF might be 4th gen? :woot:

I never said the block 15 F-16s you are talking about are 4th gen either! I said they are being updated into 4-4.5 gen with the MLU tape 5 upgrades.
F-7PG are 3rd gen - they are comparable to block 15 F-16! Remember, they are only about 8 years old. There is a HUGE difference between F-7P and F-7PG! F-7P will be phased out after A-5 and Mirage, F-7PG will stick around for a while.
Mirages with Retrofit Of Strike Element (ROSE) upgrades are fitted with systems that make them 3rd gen too. Type "Mirage ROSE cockpit" into google image search, u will clearly see two multi-function displays (1 large in the centre, a smaller one to the left), a HUD (top obviously), radar warning reciever (black circle thing on top of the small multi-function display) and if you look on the joystick and throttle stick you can see HOTAS controls. its like the block 15 cockpit!
 
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How? what is the expected result for their MMRCA? I think I've read somewhere that they are choosing between Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen NG, is it right? did they exclude F-16IN, MiG-35 & F-18E/F?

Rafale and Typhoon has been shortlisted. Winner will be announced in sept.
 
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