F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[Sinnerman108]

Hi,

Why does china need to export J10----common sense says that there is no reason to----the chinese air force has such huge order to fill for itself---they really don't need to.

Out of all its allies----pakistan is the only one that really needs a 4.5 gen aircraft---all other friends of china really don't need it---it is available to pakistan----which it will get in due time.

The jf 17 is truthfully the need for an air force like pakistan---with an aesa radar and PL12---. This aircraft is not for the need of chinese air force right away----chinese air force needs aircraft like the J11 and J10's in large numbers---. They need to fill a massive gap of good quality high tech air superiority air dominance fighter aircraft---.

Once they have done that---then they can take up the cause of JF17 with an aesa and an advanced version of PL12 for their air force to fill up the numbers---.

As for the indian colleagues----suddenly they are celebrating the cause of 'temporary blindness'----. Thy are the ones who gave a new life to the rafael---the air craft which was about to meet its natural death after living in obscurity for the longest term----.

MK,
there is common sense and there is Chinese sense; which as we can see globally is soft power of dollars rather than of weapons.

If Chinese know they can do business and make money out of it, they will do it for sure.

they are the kings of business.

 

[Beast]

REGARDING this thread.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW if this plane is ACTUALLY going to see MASS production a decade from TODAY and even then WILL CHINA EXPORT THIS.

just LOOK at J10 entered service 2005 over 200 in service... YET NOT A SINGLE EXPORT ORDER.

CHINEASE ARE SELLING their downgraded budget technology stil to those that WANT THIS.

FOR ALL WE KNOW j31/j20 MAY NOT EVEN BE AVIALABLE for export. TO ANYONE

May I know what 4th gen combat fighter jet can India offer to sell it at the moment?

Finally, J-10 is hardly offer for export. What foreign airshow has it attend besides the domestic Zuhai Airshow? While JF-17 has attend UK and UAE airshow already..

Indian full of sour grapes and the only damage you can do to China arm forces is your smearing campaign.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

In every high end weapons systems---there is some kind of secrecy---and the same is the case with the chinese equipment---. The u s put some of its stuff out in public---because it is so far ahead of others---that it would not make much of a difference.

Just by looking at the F22---you cannot tell anything about its electronic warfare suite and the weapons that it carries---but otoh---for china---their capabilities are limited---what they can offer is mostly known. So---the only way they can keep a lid on it---they need to keep their high end systems under some kind of wrap.

China does not need to display the J10---because other than its primary partner 'pakistan'---they don't want to sell it to anyone else for the time being---.

So---the point of going to air shows becomes moot---.

The only reason the J10 may be offered to anpther country after pakistan----is for some massive favours and political juxtapositioning.

 

[Munir]

Hi,

In every high end weapons systems---there is some kind of secrecy---and the same is the case with the chinese equipment---. The u s put some of its stuff out in public---because it is so far ahead of others---that it would not make much of a difference.

Just by looking at the F22---you cannot tell anything about its electronic warfare suite and the weapons that it carries---but otoh---for china---their capabilities are limited---what they can offer is mostly known. So---the only way they can keep a lid on it---they need to keep their high end systems under some kind of wrap.

China does not need to display the J10---because other than its primary partner 'pakistan'---they don't want to sell it to anyone else for the time being---.

So---the point of going to air shows becomes moot---.

The only reason the J10 may be offered to anpther country after pakistan----is for some massive favours and political juxtapositioning.

You be surprised what I know from J10a/b and JF17 by just going to airshows... I am not so sure that F22 is that superior.

 

[Mian H Amin.]

Do those aircrafts have 2 engines ??? well it will be a good addition if that happens.

 

[Storm Force]

Pakistan has no partnership or financial input in the j10 vanguard. And

 

[MastanKhan]

You be surprised what I know from J10a/b and JF17 by just going to airshows... I am not so sure that F22 is that superior.

Hi,

Ah---Munir----how are you doing my good man. How is our mutual friend Neo doing?

Pakistan has no partnership or financial input in the j10 vanguard. And

Hi,

If that makes you happy---then let it be so

 

[That Guy]

Pakistan has no partnership or financial input in the j10 vanguard. And

And, what?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Hi,

In every high end weapons systems---there is some kind of secrecy---and the same is the case with the chinese equipment---. The u s put some of its stuff out in public---because it is so far ahead of others---that it would not make much of a difference.

Just by looking at the F22---you cannot tell anything about its electronic warfare suite and the weapons that it carries---but otoh---for china---their capabilities are limited---what they can offer is mostly known. So---the only way they can keep a lid on it---they need to keep their high end systems under some kind of wrap.

China does not need to display the J10---because other than its primary partner 'pakistan'---they don't want to sell it to anyone else for the time being---.

So---the point of going to air shows becomes moot---.

The only reason the J10 may be offered to anpther country after pakistan----is for some massive favours and political juxtapositioning.

Hmm...my country did negotiate for the J-10. Never really took off.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/109150-bangladesh-negotiating-buy-f-10-fighter-planes.html
Bangladesh - Air Force Modernization

So, I think it's safe to say that the J-10 would be in a similar export profile as the F-15 Eagle for now.

What kind of significant advantages do you think can the J-10 offer to the PAF compared to the JF-17?

Pakistan has no partnership or financial input in the j10 vanguard. And

Hmm...you always talk funny...

 

[MastanKhan]

Hmm...my country did negotiate for the J-10. Never really took off.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/109150-bangladesh-negotiating-buy-f-10-fighter-planes.html
Bangladesh - Air Force Modernization

So, I think it's safe to say that the J-10 would be in a similar export profile as the F-15 Eagle for now.

What kind of significant advantages do you think can the J-10 offer to the PAF compared to the JF-17?



Hmm...you always talk funny...

Hi,

Wants and desires of a country are different than what it truly needs---and from it wants to build a base.

One of the primary functions of any weapons system is that not what it can do for you ( it does have to meet that minimum threshold ) but what kind of effect its presence would have on the enemy.

When you have an enemy where everything is based on size---then you ought to have something that can match their largest and the baddest. Because in the end---it is also about a part of the psyche----if your opponent enters the battle without any fear of your weapons---then you got to climb a bigger hill---and it does not work very well starting as an under dog.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

A few days ago I made a statement that PAF needs to focus more on 4 and 4.5 gen aircraft, advanced air to air missle systems and an aesa radar system for their aircraft.

The cost of designing, flying anf maintaining a steatlh 5th gen aircraft is astronomical------guess what---just yesterdays news----the USAF is going to ground most of its high end air fleet.

Who is the TT chairman of this board now----is he worth his salt or anything at all?

 

[Munir]

Hi,

Ah---Munir----how are you doing my good man. How is our mutual friend Neo doing?





Hi,

If that makes you happy---then let it be so

It is always good to meet old friends. Neo is fine. Very busy but fine.

The problem is about superiority is how to scale it. I mean, crushing economy, destroying everything with massive diplomatic and military force is hardly a valuable comparisation between plane x and plane Y. Let us take Israel arab conflict. Pakistani pilots did perform there with lot less. Still Israeli pilots are described as super humans. There plane as super planes. With that budget and even more diplomatic and military support you would not expect them to lose against Lebanon... Even the Merkava did meet its end...

We see budget cuts all over the world. I am looking forward to how it will evolve the airpower

 

[Glitcher]

Hmm...my country did negotiate for the J-10. Never really took off.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/109150-bangladesh-negotiating-buy-f-10-fighter-planes.html
Bangladesh - Air Force Modernization

So, I think it's safe to say that the J-10 would be in a similar export profile as the F-15 Eagle for now.

What kind of significant advantages do you think can the J-10 offer to the PAF compared to the JF-17?



Hmm...you always talk funny...

i would say none JFT full fill all the needs right now and after that we just need stealth multi role Aircraft and j31 is the best option for that.

 

[Kompromat]

J-21/AMF Gyrfalcon

The J-21 (Project 310?) Falcon 01 prototype was approaching the SAC airfield after its successful maiden flight on October 31, 2012. A scale-down model (F-60) of J-21 was first unveiled by the 601 Institute at the first International UAV Innovation Grand Prix held in Beijing in September 2011.

It was first rumored in April 2011 that 601/SAC has been developing a 4th generation medium multi-role stealth fighter as J-21 (Project 310) since 2007 after its own heavy stealth fighter design lost the bid to 611/CAC's J-20 (see above). The aircraft has a conventional design with twin engines and two large slanted trapezoidal tailfins similar to American F-22. As the result the ventral stabilizing fins are eliminated to save weight and reduce RCS. In addition it features DSIs, two piece canopy and a pentagon shaped nose similar to F-35. Like J-20, a retractable IFR proble could be installed on the starboard side slightly forward of the canopy. As a 4th generation fighter J-21 is expcted to be equipped with advanced avionics such as an AESA radar and a wide-angle holographic HUD.

The prototype is expected initially to be powered by the 8.5t class RD-93/WS-13A turbofan (without TVC) but later by the new 9.5t class "Medium Thrust" engine (WS-13B, might feature 2D TVC). The RD-93 engine nozzles on the prototype appear without any stealth measures applied. However they are partially shielded by the two horizontal tailfins extending rearward, similar to F-35, thus reduces the IR and radar signatures. J-21 features a single internal weapon bay inside its belly housing up to 4 (?) AAMs including PL-10, PL-12 or PL-15. It may also be able to carry the larger YJ-83K AshM and YJ-91 ARM externally. However due to its relatively small size and lower engine thrust compared to J-20, J-21 might suffer from either a limited internal payload or a shorter combat radius. It is not expected to have the super-cruise capability initially either when powered by RD-93. Some specifications (speculated): length 16.9m, height 4.8m, wingspan 11.5m, normal TO wight 17.5t, combat radius 1,250km with internal fuel, max level speed Mach 1.8, TO distance 400m. A full-scale metal model was probably built in early 2011. One airframe was transported to the 623 Institute in Yanliang for static tests in June 2012.

The first prototype was under construction since late 2011. Its first flight took place on October 31, 2012, powered by two smoky RD-93 turbofans. As a private venture of AVIC, J-21 (dubbed AMF/Advanced Multi-role Fighter) is expected to be promoted at the international market as a low-cost alternative to American F-35. Therefore it could have some negative impact on the prospects of FC-1/JF-17 in 7-10 years. Its first foreign customer is likely to be Pakistani Air Force. As for the domestic market, it appears to be a good candidate to replace all the remaining J-7E/G series light fighters still in service with PLAAF and PLAN, as the production of J-10 series will be limited to around 300. It was rumored that J-21 could compete with the other stealth fighter design from 611 Institute for the next generation PLAN carrier-based stealth fighter but this has not been confirmed. J-21 was partially unveiled at 2012 Zhuhai Airshow as an "advanced fighter concept", featuring a one-piece canopy.

Shenyang J-21

@Luftwaffe @nabil_05 @Yzd Khalifa @Mosamania @AhaseebA @orangzaib @TaimiKhan @Pfpilot


The source is considered credible, as its often cited by Flightglobal.

 

[Pfpilot]

The procurement of the J-21 depends on the economics, more than diplomacy. At this point, few would argue with the assertion that the Chinese are far more forthcoming with their technology than the Americans of yesteryear. Pakistan has access to relatively far more advanced Chinese platforms then was the case with the Americans through the last half century. Unfortunately it all becomes irrelevant when we are simply unable to afford what can easily be ours under prosperous circumstances.

The only way the PAF ends up with a 5th gen aircraft is if the leadership completely panics and takes out more hopelessly unpayable loans. Loans, whether they are the favorable sort offered China or the rigorously enforced kind by the IMF, amount to the same thing. The Chinese will eventually become fed up with financing Pakistani defense expenditures with no realistic chance of repayment. So I think Pakistan must tread carefully. Endless loans can damage the Sino-Pak relationship. Progressively improving what are soon to be legacy fighters is the only viable way forward for a cash strapped force. In a crude way, we are trying to buy a BMW with the budget of a Carolla. The circumstances are far from ideal, but the current economic state of the nation doesn't allow for any romanticized arms buildup.