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F-35A’s 8:0 kill ratio against F-15E

jerry_tan

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Haters gonna hate hate hate!


https://theaviationist.com/2016/06/...s-in-8-dogfights-during-simulated-deployment/

F-15E Strike Eagles unable to shoot down the F-35s in 8 dogfights during simulated deployment
Jun 27 2016 - 18 Comments
F-35-IOC.jpg

By David Cenciotti
“0 losses in 8 dogfights against F-15E Red Air”
The U.S. Air Force F-35A fleet continues to work to declare the Lightning II IOC (initial operational capability) scheduled in the August – December timeframe.

Among the activities carried out in the past weeks, a simulated deployment provided important feedbacks about the goal of demonstrating the F-35’s ability to “penetrate areas with developed air defenses, provide close air support to ground troops and be readily deployable to conflict theaters.”

Seven F-35s deployed from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, to Mountain Home AFB, Idaho, to carry out a series of operational tests which involved local-based 4th Generation F-15E Strike Eagles belonging to the 366th Fighter Wing.

In a Q&A posted on the USAF website, Col. David Chace, the F-35 systems management office chief and lead for F-35 operational requirements at ACC, provided some insights about the activities carried out during the second simulated deployment to Mountain Home (the first was in February this year):

“The F-35 recently deployed from Hill to Mountain Home where crews, maintenance and support personnel conducted a number of missions. During that deployment, crews attained a 100 percent sortie generation rate with 88 of 88 planned sorties and a 94 percent hit rate with 15 of 16 bombs on target.
These numbers provide a positive indication of where we are when it comes to stability and component performance.”

“Feedback from the events at Mountain Home will feed into the overall evaluation of F-35 capabilities. The second evaluation will take place in the operational test environment with F-35 mission sets the Air Force intends to execute after IOC. All reports will be delivered in July and feed into the overall F-35 capabilities report. The ultimate goal is to provide a needed capability to the warfighter to execute the mission. It is not calendar-based or event-based.”

“The feedback from unit operators in place today has been very positive for the F-35, not just concerning performance but the ability the aircraft has with other platforms. In particular at Hill, integration with the F-15E (Strike Eagle) has gone very well. We’ve also been demonstrating the ability to put bombs on target. All of that information will be provided to us in the formal IOC readiness assessments.”

The following interesting chart accompanies the Q&A.

It shows some stats about the deployment.



The fourth column shows something interesting: during the exercise, the F-35s were challenged by some F-15Es and suffered no losses.

Even though the graphic does not say whether the F-35s did shoot back at the F-15Es some analysts (noticing also the “pew pew pew” in the chart….) have suggested the JSFs achieved stunning 8:0 kill rate against the Strike Eagle.

However, the “zero losses” may simply mean that the F-35s were able to complete their assigned strikes without being shot down by the aggressors of the Red Air: considered that the F-15Es were probably equipped with the AN/APG-82 AESA radar and the Sniper ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod), the fact that the Strike Eagles performing DCA (Defensive Counter Air) were not able to “find” and/or “engage” the almost-IOC F-35s can be considered a huge achievement for the pricey, troubled 5th generation multirole combat plane.

Actually, this is not the first time the F-35 proves itself able to fly unscathed through a fighter-defended area: not a single Lightning II was shot down during Green Flag 15-08, the first major exercise conducted, more or less one year ago, on the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, California, during which the F-35 flew as main CAS (Close Air Support) provider.

At that time, several analysts claimed the participation of two test aircraft in the exercise was just a PR stunt, since the aircraft was still quite far from achieving a combat readiness required to really support the troops at war.

Let’s see what happens this time…
 
When it's all said and done, the F-35 is going to be a formidable fighting machine. :yahoo:
 
Haters gonna hate hate hate!


https://theaviationist.com/2016/06/...s-in-8-dogfights-during-simulated-deployment/

F-15E Strike Eagles unable to shoot down the F-35s in 8 dogfights during simulated deployment
Jun 27 2016 - 18 Comments
F-35-IOC.jpg

By David Cenciotti
“0 losses in 8 dogfights against F-15E Red Air”
The U.S. Air Force F-35A fleet continues to work to declare the Lightning II IOC (initial operational capability) scheduled in the August – December timeframe.

Among the activities carried out in the past weeks, a simulated deployment provided important feedbacks about the goal of demonstrating the F-35’s ability to “penetrate areas with developed air defenses, provide close air support to ground troops and be readily deployable to conflict theaters.”

Seven F-35s deployed from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, to Mountain Home AFB, Idaho, to carry out a series of operational tests which involved local-based 4th Generation F-15E Strike Eagles belonging to the 366th Fighter Wing.

In a Q&A posted on the USAF website, Col. David Chace, the F-35 systems management office chief and lead for F-35 operational requirements at ACC, provided some insights about the activities carried out during the second simulated deployment to Mountain Home (the first was in February this year):

“The F-35 recently deployed from Hill to Mountain Home where crews, maintenance and support personnel conducted a number of missions. During that deployment, crews attained a 100 percent sortie generation rate with 88 of 88 planned sorties and a 94 percent hit rate with 15 of 16 bombs on target.
These numbers provide a positive indication of where we are when it comes to stability and component performance.”

“Feedback from the events at Mountain Home will feed into the overall evaluation of F-35 capabilities. The second evaluation will take place in the operational test environment with F-35 mission sets the Air Force intends to execute after IOC. All reports will be delivered in July and feed into the overall F-35 capabilities report. The ultimate goal is to provide a needed capability to the warfighter to execute the mission. It is not calendar-based or event-based.”

“The feedback from unit operators in place today has been very positive for the F-35, not just concerning performance but the ability the aircraft has with other platforms. In particular at Hill, integration with the F-15E (Strike Eagle) has gone very well. We’ve also been demonstrating the ability to put bombs on target. All of that information will be provided to us in the formal IOC readiness assessments.”

The following interesting chart accompanies the Q&A.

It shows some stats about the deployment.



The fourth column shows something interesting: during the exercise, the F-35s were challenged by some F-15Es and suffered no losses.

Even though the graphic does not say whether the F-35s did shoot back at the F-15Es some analysts (noticing also the “pew pew pew” in the chart….) have suggested the JSFs achieved stunning 8:0 kill rate against the Strike Eagle.

However, the “zero losses” may simply mean that the F-35s were able to complete their assigned strikes without being shot down by the aggressors of the Red Air: considered that the F-15Es were probably equipped with the AN/APG-82 AESA radar and the Sniper ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod), the fact that the Strike Eagles performing DCA (Defensive Counter Air) were not able to “find” and/or “engage” the almost-IOC F-35s can be considered a huge achievement for the pricey, troubled 5th generation multirole combat plane.

Actually, this is not the first time the F-35 proves itself able to fly unscathed through a fighter-defended area: not a single Lightning II was shot down during Green Flag 15-08, the first major exercise conducted, more or less one year ago, on the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, California, during which the F-35 flew as main CAS (Close Air Support) provider.

At that time, several analysts claimed the participation of two test aircraft in the exercise was just a PR stunt, since the aircraft was still quite far from achieving a combat readiness required to really support the troops at war.

Let’s see what happens this time…
Soon under Israeli flag (in this december)
liberman-220616-5-e1466617227732.jpg
 
AESA and IRST can't see it! I think if a pilot or many start seeing the same dots (that is if it was really that stealthy), 8 of them , all the same and moving, he(they)'ll certainly start investigating and approching the source of what ever appears on his radar and intrigues him..
They also might have kept out of radar range all together..
It for sure has a low or very low RCS, but no one can claim that it is totally invisible, otherwise the F-22 would be considered a ghost, since it has even lower RCS..
 
now let's see it face off against the F-15C,F-16,F/A18, Rafale, and Typhoon.

I think the F-35 is a beast but just needs a beast missile to make up for it's flaws.
 
AESA and IRST can't see it! I think if a pilot or many start seeing the same dots (that is if it was really that stealthy), 8 of them , all the same and moving, he(they)'ll certainly start investigating and approching the source of what ever appears on his radar and intrigues him..
They also might have kept out of radar range all together..
It for sure has a low or very low RCS, but no one can claim that it is totally invisible, otherwise the F-22 would be considered a ghost, since it has even lower RCS..
Who has ?

This critique against the F-22 and F-35 is typical of when the critics cannot face their own medicine. Even with the F-117, the US never claimed and used the word 'invisible'. And I have explained fully -- yrs ago -- on this forum on why/how radar sees everything. PDF old timers do not use this critique any more. Get with the program.

- Air Dominance: The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves into subordinate postures.

- Air Superiority: The ability of an air force to achieve control of contested airspace, do it repeatedly, and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

- Air Supremacy: He flies, he dies.

Regarding Air Superiority, it does not mean we have to deploy the F-22/35 in numerical advantage. If we lose one F-22/35 but the enemy air force lose more, say 8 to 1, that one loss will be statistically tolerable to US more than the 8 to the enemy air force. It would be foolish for any air force to continue to fight for an airspace where it will have sustained losses of that magnitude. Having numerical advantage does not guarantee victory, but it will force the enemy to reassess his tactics. What 'stealth' does is to upset the current calculus regarding on how much to deploy and where in order to control airspace over vital ground assets. If it becomes evident that despite having numerical advantage, an air force continues to lose at consistent rate against an enemy who is difficult to find, therefore fight against, that air force will have to either reduce its operations in this contested airspace or withdraw completely. Conceding to a numerically inferior foe. Not too difficult to imagine a squadron of F-35 pushing back an enemy who outnumbers them 10-1.

That is what 'stealth' have done.
 
Who has ?

This critique against the F-22 and F-35 is typical of when the critics cannot face their own medicine. Even with the F-117, the US never claimed and used the word 'invisible'. And I have explained fully -- yrs ago -- on this forum on why/how radar sees everything. PDF old timers do not use this critique any more. Get with the program.

- Air Dominance: The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves into subordinate postures.

- Air Superiority: The ability of an air force to achieve control of contested airspace, do it repeatedly, and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

- Air Supremacy: He flies, he dies.

Regarding Air Superiority, it does not mean we have to deploy the F-22/35 in numerical advantage. If we lose one F-22/35 but the enemy air force lose more, say 8 to 1, that one loss will be statistically tolerable to US more than the 8 to the enemy air force. It would be foolish for any air force to continue to fight for an airspace where it will have sustained losses of that magnitude. Having numerical advantage does not guarantee victory, but it will force the enemy to reassess his tactics. What 'stealth' does is to upset the current calculus regarding on how much to deploy and where in order to control airspace over vital ground assets. If it becomes evident that despite having numerical advantage, an air force continues to lose at consistent rate against an enemy who is difficult to find, therefore fight against, that air force will have to either reduce its operations in this contested airspace or withdraw completely. Conceding to a numerically inferior foe. Not too difficult to imagine a squadron of F-35 pushing back an enemy who outnumbers them 10-1.

That is what 'stealth' have done.

So the latest F-15E is that dump now? With AESA , IRST and what have you?
Or that the F-35 can use its active cancellation all the time?
There are no critics in my post, just inquiries about the matter!
 
So the latest F-15E is that dump now? With AESA , IRST and what have you?
Or that the F-35 can use its active cancellation all the time?
There are no critics in my post, just inquiries about the matter!

Hi,

The F15 E is not a dump when compared to similar aircraft----.

The issue over here is when you are facing something that has the ability to come in from a " parallel universe " strike and move back into the shadows----what are you going to do against it.

You need to find out where those shadows are---and how to enter into that nether region---observe evaluate and strike--.

Realistically we have over here fighter aircraft equipped with the star trek type " cloaking devices "---in simple layman's terms----. They have a technology from a different universe---so to counter them---you will have to find a technology from that universe.

@Windjammer @MastanKhan @Bilal Khan 777 @araz @Oscar
Gentlemen, your thoughts? Each one of you!!!


Hi,

Could a temporary solution be small yield tactical air burst nuc.
 
Hi,

The F15 E is not a dump when compared to similar aircraft----.

The issue over here is when you are facing something that has the ability to come in from a " parallel universe " strike and move back into the shadows----what are you going to do against it.

You need to find out where those shadows are---and how to enter into that nether region---observe evaluate and strike--.

Realistically we have over here fighter aircraft equipped with the star trek type " cloaking devices "---in simple layman's terms----. They have a technology from a different universe---so to counter them---you will have to find a technology from that universe..

They certainly have some highly advanced aeorospace technologies incorporated in them..there is one thing that is important to mention: the US refuses to share the source code of the fighter even with its level 1 British partner!?
I think that they have incorporated the latest (US) aerospace technologies, materials sciences and informatics in both the F-22 and the F-35, these are the new F-16s an F-15s of the 21st century, still, technically speaking we have to wait and see if they can face all the Anti-stealth technologies that are there or being conceived as a counter to their tech.
Nonetheless, they are the best "operating" stealth fighters in the world today..
 
AESA and IRST can't see it! I think if a pilot or many start seeing the same dots (that is if it was really that stealthy), 8 of them , all the same and moving, he(they)'ll certainly start investigating and approching the source of what ever appears on his radar and intrigues him..
They also might have kept out of radar range all together..
It for sure has a low or very low RCS, but no one can claim that it is totally invisible, otherwise the F-22 would be considered a ghost, since it has even lower RCS..

You pretty much point that out, low RCS and powerful radar seeing them and staying out of the enemy's radar. There are already facts by pilots and news articles about how the F-35 has beaten its opponents, in training of course, but that is how it work.

Go to 9:00 min mark.
Talks about how he flew the F-22 and was the least impressed about the fighter even with its speed and agility and more about the F-35.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/f-35-60-minutes-david-martin/
Mark Welsh: We're not the only ones who understand that going to this next generation of capability in a fighter aircraft is critical to survive in the future of battle space and so others are going, notably now the Chinese, the Russians, and we'll see more of that in the future.

And this is what the competition looks like -- the Russian T-50 and China's J-20 Stealth Fighter. According to Welsh, they are more than a match for today's fighters.

Mark Welsh: If you take any older fighter like our existing aircraft and you put it nose to nose in, in a contested environment with a newer fighter, it will die.

David Martin: And it will die because?

Mark Welsh: It will die before it even knows it's even in a fight.


In aerial combat, the plane that shoots first wins, so it all comes down to detecting the enemy before he detects you. The F-35's combination of information technology and stealth would give American pilots what Marine Lt. Gen. Robert Schmidle describes as an astounding advantage in combat.

Robert Schmidle: I shouldn't get into the exact ranges because those ranges are classified, but what I can tell you is that the range at which you can detect the enemy as opposed to when he can detect you can be as much as 10 times further when you'll see him before he'll ever see you and down to five times...

David Martin: I want to nail that down here. If the F-35 was going up against another stealth aircraft of the kind that other countries are working on today, it would be able still to detect that aircraft at five to 10 times the range?

Robert Schmidle: You would be safe in assum
ing that you could detect that airplane at considerably longer distances than that airplane could detect you.

The F-35's radars, cameras and antennas would scan for 360 degrees around the plane searching for threats and projecting, for example, the altitude and speed of an enemy aircraft, onto the visor of a helmet custom-fitted to each pilot's head.

 
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