F-35: Should India Really Ride The Lightning?

[dbc]

Yes! Two squadrons of the F-35 for the Indian Navy, considering their VTOL capability.

Are you serious? Haven't you seen the youtube video (post 3), the JSF is useless! India and Australia should stay clear of all US fighters

 

[gubbi]

The article is poorly written by amateurs. Infact some members including yours truly can write a more professional sounding piece.

eg: First they say this:

Another problem is the complexity of the design itself and the fact that many of its technologies are radically new and untried. The USAF is learning the hard way that the F-22’s radar absorbing skin (which the F-35 also uses) is highly vulnerable to rain and dust, and very expensive and difficult to maintain. Advertised as having the computing power of two Cray supercomputers, it is so complex that it can only fly for an average of 1.7 hours before suffering a critical failure. Even six years after it entered service, new and potentially fatal problems continue to surface with alarming regularity. It isn’t too hard to guess how the F-35, whose design borrows heavily from that of the F-22 and even outclasses it in certain aspects, will fare in this regard.

This idiocy has been proven wrong time and again. And yet the stupidity wont go away like a bad mistake of a drunken one night stand!

Then they say this:

t cannot operate without air cover as it does not possess a swing-role capability. Also, its stealth is not all-aspect like the F-22’s, and so it cannot be relied upon to make its way in and out of enemy territory unassisted.

and then they go on to say this:

the IAF could consider one or two squadrons of the Lightning II, for the simple purpose of “kicking the door down” in the first few days of the war, taking out vital air defence nodes, logistics nodes, or AEW&C and tanker aircraft before handing over the heavy lifting to other aircraft that can announce their presence.

And they further "justify" their point by saying this :

in the same way the MiG-25 was replaced not by another aircraft but an indirect replacement – spy satellites – the F-35's role can be performed not by another aircraft, but by missiles. We already operate the ground-launched BrahMos.

Who needs modern aircraft with Brahmos around, right dudes?

I mean how stupid can one get? These guys have no idea what they are talking about!

ps: Spark, I thought you would know better than post such!!

 

[dr.crazze]

Bhai.. AMCA is still only on paper. we didn't even get the FOC for LCA.

thats why i am saying scrap any plans for the f-35 and look for amca with american russian whoever ready to give help india needs amca in bulk

 

[OrionHunter]

Are you serious? Haven't you seen the youtube video (post 3), the JSF is useless! India and Australia should stay clear of all US fighters

You, an American, are saying this? Oooops! You don't have much confidence in your weapon systems, what?

 

[Jason bourne]

Cant we consider it for strategic Force command ?

 

[dbc]

You, an American, are saying this? Oooops! You don't have much confidence in your weapon systems, what?

For sure, if its on youtube it must be true.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Cant we consider it for strategic Force command ?

its pay load is the similar to the LCA and it can only carry 4 AAM's thats half of what the EFT and Rafale can carry if we want good ground attack fighter for SFC the obvious choice is the French Rafale EFT and Rafale were the obvious choices from the start although the F/18 should have been shortlisted but was not due to US commitments on TOT simply put we want the advanced technology not watered down stuff

 

[Kompromat]

One big reason why India won't buy the F-35 is that this air craft does not come in the Medium Weight category which kills the purpose of the MMRCA itself. Other than that , maintaining costs and a well known fact that Indian buy of F-35 will save the project from crashing.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I must say LM is all set to grow more and more. The way JSF program is going on the whole line is in US. US is not letting anyone to make any changes in the aircraft unlike the previous F18 and F16. F16 can get upgraded from a couple more countries while F35 cannot. Apart from this many countries give support and maintenance services for these 2 aircraft but its not the case with F35.

Now whats the implication of this arrangement ? If anything happens in the aircraft only US companies will take care of it and they can charge anything they want and no-one can oppose because the option are simple either pay or ground your fleet.

All the above mention points in the have the points especially limited weapon carriage and problems appearing in the new techs especially the effect of dust and rain on radar absorbing material.

But as far as stealth is concerned, F35 has internal weapon bay and all other design aspects of a stealth aircraft and even if we add weapons and external fuel tanks, f35 will always be more stealthier than Rafale and EF. Also f35 features best radar and avionics package as well as new generation EW system. Also EF is also in the same stage of development as F35, both will be delivered in the same time.

In short F35 has a lot of problems and its risky to be a part of this project but f35 is definitely next gen and an engineering marvel. I think IAF should at-least conduct trials just to get the feel of a 5th gen fighter because lets face it none of us know how it feels to fly a 5th gen fighter and after this experience IAF can tell ADA and HAL if something is missing in fgfa and amca because right we don't exactly have a knowledge about what other 5th gen fighters have.

If AMCA and fgfa faces delays, then we can purchase f35 by the end of decade and by then we can get other customers view and we will know what problems f35 is facing and how expensive and problematic is to maintain f35 fleet. I should also say this that we don't know where the US-India relations will stand by the end of decade and its possible US might even offer f22 to us by that time.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The F-35 would be good for deep penetration strikes. Although, like all US-made equipment, there are strings attached.

Ignoring all the bottlenecks in the project, it is a good option. Especially if the IN wants a VTOL carrier based aircraft (which is the only one out there for now).

 

[Varad]

Absolutely NO

 

[Zabaniyah]

And they are still trying.

U.S. Woos India for Big-Ticket Defence Deals

By IANS, Sunday, 06 November 2011, 18:53 Hrs

Washington: Rebuffed over what is touted as the world's biggest defence deal, the United States is going all out to woo a modernising India with attractive offers with an eye on other big-ticket defence deals.

Media stories on a Pentagon report released last week on U.S.-India Security Cooperation largely focused on the biggest carrot - an offer to look at the fifth generation F-35 Joint strike aircraft being developed with eight other countries.

But there were more goodies on offer too from Uncle Sam "to establish itself as a reliable defence supplier to India" "committed to providing India with top-of-the-line technology" and "pursue cooperative opportunities on increasingly sophisticated systems" leading to "co-development of armaments."

Of course there were usual references in the 9-page document to how the relationship between the U.S. and India is a priority for both the U.S. government and the Defence department and how the two "natural partners" are "destined to be closer because of shared interests and values."

Next day a senior defence official called the media over to stress how as the Obama administration and Congress work to overhaul export restrictions the U.S. and India are finding ways to lower barriers within existing laws.

But the focus again turned to the F-35 fighter jet aircraft. India has made no request for more information on the F-35, Robert Scher, deputy assistant secretary of defence for South and Southeast Asia, he acknowledged. But the U.S. invitation was "an example of the high regard that we hold India's military modernisation."

The pitch for the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) came just days before India opened the tenders of European finalists Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon in the competition to supply India with 126 multi-role combat jets, analysts noted.

"With a potential contract price of $9 billion to $14 billion, this is the single biggest competition in the global defence aviation industry at the moment and offers both bidders a much-needed opportunity in a major market," James Hardy, Asia Pacific Editor at IHS Jane's Defence Weekly pointed out.

India's rejection of Boeing and Lockheed Martin's F-16 and F-18 fighters in April was an expensive setback for U.S. arms sales and the U.S. aviation industry and analysts saw the offer of the F-35 as reflecting more of an anxiety to keep Pentagon's most expensive procurement programme afloat.

Ten years and $66 billion later F-35 fighter aircraft is still in development phase, five years behind schedule and 64 percent over cost estimates.

Reports suggest that given the current budget constraints the Obama administration may cancel some models and also reduce the size of Pentagon's total orders. So may the other foreign 'partner' nations.

Analysts suggest that this could well be the reason behind Lockheed's and the Pentagon's anxiety to increase the client base of the aircraft by inviting Indian participation as India is currently the world's largest importer of arms.

Source: U.S. Woos India for Big-Ticket Defence Deals

 

[perplexed]

I should say that we ought to try it out before rejecting it. In case we are satisifed we can go for 1-2 squadrons of F35

 

[mastaan]

I should say that we ought to try it out before rejecting it. In case we are satisifed we can go for 1-2 squadrons of F35

Definitely NOT at the cost of MMRCA... We need a reliable machine and spare parts supply and complete alignment on the 'set aside for local investment' clause, to help grow our local capabilities... and we need these NOW!

There are other issues to consider on taking this fighter into our inventory
1. Reliability of spare parts supply... History says this factor is ZERO
2. Length and our number in the pipeline... I guess first delivery is possible in 2017
3. Operational strings attached to the supply... obviously such stuff is never made public
4. Willingness of Americans to allow local components manufacturing competence to be developed in India... will be a deal breaker
5. lifecycle cost of a machine that is still not used actively
6. How many platforms of generation V do we need in our inventory
7. why is it that f22 is still out of bounds for a "natural strategic partner"

I think, there are too many 'iffs' and 'buts' here for it to be a short term contender... with developing relationship with US, I am more than sure that this discussion will come around in a different setting and context... but, for the short term we will have to regret as it is just not in out best interests ...

Medium term, we should evaluate, but with due consideration to our interests in FGFA and AMCA and the need and availability of such a technology and the price tag and the strings attached... Though we may not have a money restriction, it certainly should not mean that we end up burning cash for non required reasons...

Interesting to see them offer this though! Very interesting!

 

[rockstarIN]

USA's foreign military sales clauses and Indian weapon procurement clauses does not match in crucial high end weapons, i.e fighter jets etc. Period.