F-35 looking more like white elephant

[Thomas]

it's not just simple kinks, the problem is structural. the current build just don't have enough power to get off the ground with fuel + weapon load. they're working on a new engine for it now, but it's on a do or die deadline.

It's not just the engine but structural cracks in the internal frame as well. Still I believe they will get them fixed. You would be surprised how fast something can be redesigned and implemented. And as far as the time frame. In 2 years Gates knows there is a chance he will no longer be SECDEF. And in the end Congress will have the final say.

 

[casual]

It's not just the engine but structural cracks in the internal frame as well. Still I believe they will get them fixed. You would be surprised how fast something can be redesigned and implemented. And as far as the time frame. In 2 years Gates knows there is a chance he will no longer be SECDEF. And in the end Congress will have the final say.

true.
it makes you wonder if it'll be cheaper to just start from scratch. doesn't help that this comes on the heels of the osprey

 

[Solomon2]

It's unlikely that starting from scratch would be cheaper. With not just a new plane but new materials and new types of loading it is to be expected that this sort of thing would be discovered during the prototype or even early production process. Structural weaknesses can be strengthened. Certain types of dynamic stresses may require reprogramming of the engine control system. For this minor redesign you're talking weeks to months, not months to years. (And the gov't may decide the contractor has to eat the costs.)

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Cant believe people are bad mouthing an aircraft which has the backing of the only country in the world to have successfully produced and inducted Stealth aircrafts..This is their fourth/fifth stealth plane , others are still testing their first plane.. I guess normal misconception here is that a plane with internal weapon bay is a fifth gen airplane.

And from which part of this thread or article you've got that?It's more of a concern for people there working with the JSF programme.No one questioning the stealth capabilities.It's pretty staight forward if a country can manufacture a trend setting F-22 why not have something similar or even with better avionics.F-35B stills is a big headache.

Questions will arise ,when people will see this replacement of F-22 which was once thought to be economical because of a single engine version, taking too much of finances and compare it performance wise with emerging rivals (talking of Pak-FA & J-20)

 

[500]

ok i concede that it's not junk, but i am bitter over the production cancellation of the F-22 because of it.

my basic point is we could have filled our 5gen requirements with the superior F22

the F35 are now costing 92mil per plane and who knows how the total development costs will end up as.

instead what we should have done is put the F-22 into serial production and drive down it's cost.

F-35 has better sensor suite than F-22.
F-35 is cheaper to produce.
F-35 is cheaper to operate.
F-35 has much bigger A/G internal load.
F-35 has more fuel.

 

[PRACTICAL PATRIOT]

F-35 is perfectly what it is meant to be
a 5th generation plane cheaper than F-22, a cost effective solution for having more number of 5th gen. planes at lesser cost.
its also meant to be exported to allies, and nobody gives their best weapon to others.

 

[unicorn]

I agree, from talking to one of the senators on the defense appropriations committie. There is a chance we may see a renewed effort to approve a export F-22 variant. It has been stuck in political limbo. China's J-20 may be what is needed to spur action on it.

I also would like to see them cut 400 - 500 F-35's and replace them with about 300 upgraded F-22's.

Replacing F35 with upgraded F22 will indeed be a very wise decision.

 

[unicorn]

F-35 has better sensor suite than F-22.
F-35 is cheaper to produce.
F-35 is cheaper to operate.
F-35 has much bigger A/G internal load.
F-35 has more fuel.

Between F35 and F22 the cost comparison ratio is 1.23 and a capability ratio is 2.8.Also both aircraft costing about the same over the 2011-2018 time frame.

Some advantages of F22 on F35 are

1)F-22A carries twice as many Air-to-Air missiles as the F-35A

2)In combat, the F-22A is flown at almost twice the altitude and twice the speed of the F-35A. This increases the range of the F-22A's Air-to-Air missiles by almost 40 percent, increasing lethality, while it doubles the range of guided bombs like the JDAM.

3)The higher speed of the F-22A vs the F-35A allows it to control twice the area, when targets are mobile and time sensitive. In such situations, a single F-22A can do the same work as two F-35As.

4)F-22A is much more lethal than the F-35A. It is also much more survivable than the F-35A.

5)F-22A provides around three times more capability than the F-35A, yet costs only around 23% more per unit.

6)F-22 is currently in production, yet the planned Initial Operational Capability for the F-35A is 2013 and this is at the Block 3 configuration level, with the prospect of further schedule slippages with commensurate increases in cost.

 

[Safriz]

Humorous video showing a 16 year old in f-35 sim

YouTube - F-35 Simulator

Oh no...you just revealed America's deepest darkest secret.....

what if the taliban watch this video and build an F-35 of their own?

 

[IceCold]

F-35 has better sensor suite than F-22.
F-35 is cheaper to produce.
F-35 is cheaper to operate.
F-35 has much bigger A/G internal load.
F-35 has more fuel.

If there is so much to the F-35 as compared to the F-22, why countries like Japan and Australia are pushing the US to open up the sales of the F-22 and are reluctant to buy the F-35?
F-35 has gained criticism from every corner within and out side the US.

 

[Safriz]

F-22 is a Mature platform which hasnt made any revenue for USA..The main problem behind closing F-22 production was cost...if they start selling the plane..it will sell as hot cake as its the most advertised fighter jet in the world.That will lower production cost and make revenue for USA...

On the other hand F-35 has yet to prove its worth.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Many of F-35's electronics and systems have been taken directly from F-22 Program, many of them downgraded yet superior. Till date the only superior electronics and systems are on board F-22 yet F-35 comes second, to keep the program with-in affordable costs F-35 is not meant to surpass F-22 because there would be no reason for F-22 to Exist..

 

[amalakas]

Many of F-35's electronics and systems have been taken directly from F-22 Program, many of them downgraded yet superior. Till date the only superior electronics and systems are on board F-22 yet F-35 comes second, to keep the program with-in affordable costs F-35 is not meant to surpass F-22 because there would be no reason for F-22 to Exist..

..........................
True

 

[SpArK]

 

[Luftwaffe]

There is no way in this world that the F35 can surpass the F22,

well only in the magical world of lala land

That I explained F-35 is the decedent of F-22