F-22P a bad decision by PN?

[MastanKhan]

You do not know who i am? how dare you.... I have 10 years of experience working as a adviser for the Pentagon then resigned and now currently sharing my "expert" experience with GHQ here in pakistan.
Btw unless you can contribute to the topic and not show to much personal interests on me I will spare your life

just chill sir g..

Hi Xeric----Mods----,

If you read this post---please verify from the gentleman if he is who he claims to be----if not.

We don't need no liars on this board----from further on---all comments by member "Growler" maybe taken as comments associated to GHQ by any foreign agency---as the member states that he is associated with GHQ.

I believe that it is a serious issue---.

 

[Muradk]

Hi Xeric----Mods----,

If you read this post---please verify from the gentleman if he is who he claims to be----if not.

We don't need no liars on this board----from further on---all comments by member "Growler" maybe taken as comments associated to GHQ by any foreign agency---as the member states that he is associated with GHQ.

I believe that it is a serious issue---.

MK Eid Mubark

MK come on yar Growler is one of us.

 

[qsaark]

Hi Xeric----Mods----,

If you read this post---please verify from the gentleman if he is who he claims to be----if not.

We don't need no liars on this board----from further on---all comments by member "Growler" maybe taken as comments associated to GHQ by any foreign agency---as the member states that he is associated with GHQ.

I believe that it is a serious issue---.

It was nothing but sarcasm. Anybody can see that he (Growler) was joking. What has happened? Why so much intolerance? Why for simple things, Mod's intervention is being requested? You know what Mastan? Do yourself a favor. Float this idea through your TT club.. Fire all the members who dare to disagree here. And do new hiring, this time, only the folks who take an oath not to go against the set policies on what to say and what not to say. And hire all the professionals.. and let others know that non-professionals are not allowed, they should try their luck elsewhere.

 

[MastanKhan]

It was nothing but sarcasm. Anybody can see that he (Growler) was joking. What has happened? Why so much intolerance? Why for simple things, Mod's intervention is being requested? You know what Mastan? Do yourself a favor. Float this idea through your TT club.. Fire all the members who dare to disagree here. And do new hiring, this time, only the folks who take an oath not to go against the set policies on what to say and what not to say. And hire all the professionals.. and let others know that non-professionals are not allowed, they should try their luck elsewhere.

Qsaark,

Happy eid mubarak to you as well.

Un-called for anger---please don't take it any farther than it is---.

You being a scientist---you ought to know it better---why do you introduce yourself before reading a paper in front of your colleagues.

Many a pakistanis ended up in jail or in trouble in the u s because some of their pakistani friends made some tardy comments about their relations to the "unknown"---they were also joking---.

Here we have a senior member claiming to work for pentagon and ghq---and that is not the truth---he is coming a swinging with his reasonings---why it ought to be that way---and that is all sarcasm---well maybe the rest is also hogwash then.

 

[qsaark]

In matters of defence procurement--it is not a matter of making sense all the time---it is a matter of what is available at the earliest possible---the maximum bang for the buck----.

Just tell this in your reply. Why asking for the credentials?

When you go out on a limb and make it either black or white---then you need to know where that person is coming from---what experience does that person have to have based his discussions----.

That happens in professional environment, not on a public forum.

I reccommend you to visit a forum defence talk dot com---a world class very informative techincal forum----over there if you make a technical statement---every one wants to know your background---you know why---because there are a lots of ex-servicemen and defence pros on that site---they would want to know why you are talking different than everybody else---what is your source and experience that makes it different.

This forum is not defence talk dot com or is it? The threads are not closed for the non-professionals at least as yet.

Same thing---while discussing microbiology with you---there would come a stage that you will ask me---MK---what is your background in microbiology---so that you may understand that I am not 'winging' it just like that----you want to find out if there is 'substance' behind my argument.

If I was discussing the issues in Microbiology forum, than ‘Yes’. This is however, a general public forum where people from different walks of life are encouraged I (at least it used to be like this) to take part in debates. There are no restrictions on the members where to post and where not to post. If what they are saying makes no sense, there are more informed members who can and must put the discussion back on track.

Other than that---talk is so very cheap----the board is filled up with paste and post information---.

Please give your input and put the discussion back on track.

If you are giving my example---then you conveniently forgot that so many times I have given out my background as to what I do for a living and for every argument that I have, I have shared my reasons basing it upon my experience.

Your example was given in a very positive way. That you deal in Cars yet possess exceptional grip on defense procurements etc. We have not forgotten your reasoning on M2K purchases where you even went head on with MuradK. If it was all about the profession, why you opted to go into arguments with an Air force professional? And I also remember very well that you did not agree with him on one point regarding the M2K procurements. Even though you were not an Air force professional, many including myself supported you. Only because your arguments were making sense and were on merit.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

MastankHAN you have spend over an hour just on this thread over me... Please kindly show some professionalism and maturity. get over it.. thank you and eid mubareek

 

[qsaark]

MastankHAN you have spend over an hour just on this thread over me... Please kindly show some professionalism and maturity. get over it.. thank you and eid mubareek

To be honest with you, you did not have to say all this. Mastan Saheb is a very senior and a respectable member of this forum just like you are. I am a fan of his professionalism and maturity. But these days, something has gone wrong. It is not only him, but the general environment of the forum that is getting less tolerant. I only hope this situation will not last for long.

 

[Arsalan]

To begin with, China never offers its top of the line equipments... even if it does... they will make you wait for 10 years until they have something better for their own. the reason why pakistan chose F-22P had to do more with "politics" gain/importance then technical...

ok let us suppose that you are right on this, even then do you favour the US and the system they have to offer us??
dont you think it is highly unfair to say that haa, chines never give us top line systems, look they gave us just the F22p whereas US are really sincere with us giveing us just a 30 year old retired ship!!!

regards!

 

[MastanKhan]

Qsaark,

You are missing my point---Growler has stretched it so far that I am thinking---ok---it is time to agree with his stuff---for that I for one would like to know how he is getting there----there is some path to sanity---isn't there. Is this simply a public forum---a public forum needs to have some kind of authenticity and members need to be truthful---I work hard as do so many others on this board to make it real---so many of us put a major major effort for this place to be outstanding.

It was not a matter of banning anyone---but to have a talk with them to make them realistic in what they write.

Do I get the feeling that you always want to jump the gun.

My experience in sales is in dealing with the americans white, black, yellow or brown, face to face on daily basis---that is where I center my reasoning---my comments about american generals screwing it up in iraq and afghanistan were based on historical precedents---drawing the information from all different sources and giving referneces----same was in case of m2k no purchase---in the 80's or 90's---there were references to why I got to where I did in my analysis---and the analysis was based on my personal experience, news outputs, strategic out maneuvouring by india etc etc etc.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

ok let us suppose that you are right on this, even then do you favour the US and the system they have to offer us??
dont you think it is highly unfair to say that haa, chines never give us top line systems, look they gave us just the F22p whereas US are really sincere with us giveing us just a 30 year old retired ship!!!
regards!

And remarkably once the 30 year old frigate is upgraded it will be superior to F-22P in ASW and generally equally as good. or am i wrong?
btw good thing you have brought up the right topic again... hopefully this should change the tone of this thread... thanks alot.. and happy eid..

 

[Arsalan]

chill,,
well this sounds like it is actually Eid tomorrow as the devils are alread fre creating confusion between our bands,,

let us get over it Sir Mastan Khan and Growler i request you for the same. i mean why make it a matter of ego for nothing, we are herer to learn so lets geet done with it and leave,,,

regards!

 

[qsaark]

You are missing my point---Growler has stretched it so far that I am thinking---ok---it is time to agree with his stuff---for that I for one would like to know how he is getting there----

First of all, I am not necessarily agreeing with him. I am only saying that we should look into the sanity of the words rather than investigating a person’s profession. And as you have said, “for that I for one would like to know how he is getting there..” is the correct approach. Let’s ask him this question instead of asking him about his profession.

there is some path to sanity---isn't there. Is this simply a public forum---a public forum needs to have some kind of authenticity and members need to be truthful---I work hard as do so many others on this board to make it real---so many of us put a major major effort for this place to be outstanding.

No where in his posts did I get the impression that he was not truthful. He might have been getting things wrong possibly, but he was intentionally not presenting thing in their right perspective, I doubt that.

It was not a matter of banning anyone---but to have a talk with them to make them realistic in what they write.

Do I get the feeling that you always want to jump the gun.

All this could have been done and done more effectively through PMs.

My experience in sales is in dealing with the americans white, black, yellow or brown, face to face on daily basis---that is where I center my reasoning---my comments about american generals screwing it up in iraq and afghanistan were based on historical precedents---drawing the information from all different sources and giving referneces----same was in case of m2k no purchase---in the 80's or 90's---there were references to why I got to where I did in my analysis---and the analysis was based on my personal experience, news outputs, strategic out maneuvering by India etc etc etc.

You are absolutely right here, and that is why I got really confused why you were asking for the professional credentials. Selling cars to individuals is very different than selling top of the line multimillion dollar military hardware to another country. Accordingly, your credentials can be questioned, but it would not be right to do on a public forum. For the reasons you gave above, we respect your opinion and look forward to read more posts from you.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

chill,,
well this sounds like it is actually Eid tomorrow as the devils are alread fre creating confusion between our bands,,

The moon was not even spotted in islamabad and rawilpindi and here we are celebrating chand raat. so its eid tomarro without eid chand? huh.... however it was spotted in lahore quetta and other parts of pakistan...

 

[Arsalan]

btw good thing you have brought up the right topic again... hopefully this should change the tone of this thread... thanks alot.. and happy eid..

well friend i knew what wil be your answer but still i posted it just to get back on track!!
you can take out your anger on F22p as always rather then member,,
atleast F22p wont be firing back,

well again i am, just like you are, sticking to my idea, that there is no way you can compare a brand new platform with a 30 year old one. i hope it get all the lucrative upgrades you have mentioned and that wll bring something out of these frigates.
future of PN belongs to F22p and milegem class coverttes and frigates!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

The moon was not even spotted in islamabad and rawilpindi and here we are celebrating chand raat. so its eid tomarro without eid chand? huh.... however it was spotted in lahore quetta and other parts of pakistan...

oh now dont tell me that, we are already having two eid in our country, i wint like to split the nation into further parts,, i hope you wont either!

regards!