F-22P a bad decision by PN?

[Quwa]

PN is still likely to pursue the MILGEM for future corvette requirements, just keep in mind that the ship is under development. I have also seen a trend lately of the Turks revealing indigenous substitutes for a lot of the Western subsystems on MILGEM. I wouldn't doubt that PN is keeping an eye on these developments, and drawing up a plan for arming these corvettes with preferable weapon-systems.

I'm not sure if the PN will be able to get the MILGEM before 2015 or even 2019, these sort of programs take time. However the PN will definitely push for domestic production of MILGEM, and IMHO acquire 10-12 to take up an array of missions. Plans for larger frigates (such as MEKO or Type-054A) are also on the cards.

 

[Penguin]

Trade? Oil Trade Corridor ?

Then e.g. Japan should have naval presence here too, given this country's dependence on middle-eastern oil.

 

[Penguin]

PN is still likely to pursue the MILGEM for future corvette requirements, just keep in mind that the ship is under development. I have also seen a trend lately of the Turks revealing indigenous substitutes for a lot of the Western subsystems on MILGEM. I wouldn't doubt that PN is keeping an eye on these developments, and drawing up a plan for arming these corvettes with preferable weapon-systems.

I'm not sure if the PN will be able to get the MILGEM before 2015 or even 2019, these sort of programs take time. However the PN will definitely push for domestic production of MILGEM, and IMHO acquire 10-12 to take up an array of missions. Plans for larger frigates (such as MEKO or Type-054A) are also on the cards.

Milgem should be a nice number for PN, even with US armaments like RAM and Harpoon (these could be provides as foreign military aid, thus keeping costs down)

 

[Quwa]

Milgem should be a nice number for PN, even with US armaments like RAM and Harpoon (these could be provides as foreign military aid, thus keeping costs down)

I think there is some indication that PN is looking to expand on domestic reliance just as much as PAF and PA. With that said, I think Pakistan's strategic-thinkers will put a lot of effort in raising defence relations with Turkey, South Africa and Brazil. If possible, I think PN may pursue a program to develop its own Aster-15-like VL-SAM using the Umkhonto? Or perhaps Diehl-BGT (Germany) may offer the naval IRIS-T SL system?

In any case, I think the MILGEM is more or less settled for PN's corvette requirements, just a matter of the Turks readying it for production. I just wonder what PN would choose for its frigate requirements, apparently MEKO is very high up.

 

[Arsalan]

Then e.g. Japan should have maval presence here too, given this country's dependence on middle-eastern oil.

sure!!
i mean why not??

 

[Penguin]

sure!!
i mean why not??

Well, for starters, there are still quite a few Asian nations which would not care to see JMSDF projecting naval power out that far, for 'historical reasons', and they would be at least as wary of such a development as they are of the development of Chinese power projection capabilities.

 

[Adios Amigo]

good news,,, the first f 22 P frigate PNS ZULFQAR has arrived at Karachi today.

 

[Penguin]

I think there is some indication that PN is looking to expand on domestic reliance just as much as PAF and PA. With that said, I think Pakistan's strategic-thinkers will put a lot of effort in raising defence relations with Turkey, South Africa and Brazil. If possible, I think PN may pursue a program to develop its own Aster-15-like VL-SAM using the Umkhonto? Or perhaps Diehl-BGT (Germany) may offer the naval IRIS-T SL system?

In any case, I think the MILGEM is more or less settled for PN's corvette requirements, just a matter of the Turks readying it for production. I just wonder what PN would choose for its frigate requirements, apparently MEKO is very high up.

What is there for PN to develop on the basis of Umkhonto? This vertically launched missile high velocity IR homing missile, designed for all-round defense against simultaneous air attacks from multiple combat aircraft, helicopters and missiles, is in service in the South African Navy Meko A-200 patrol corvetes. Kentron has developed a truck mounted land based system, equipped with a quad missile group, fitted with all associated subsystems. An extended range version - Umkhonto-NG, equipped with a rocket booster and an RF seeker head - is under development at Kentron. (Umkhonto air defense system).

But sure, it would be a interesting option, as would IRIS-T SLS and VL Mica.

When you mention MEKO, you are referring too A-100 (e.g. along the lines of the polish Gowron class) or A-200 (along the lines of the South African Valour Class) or yet something else altogether (e.g. Meko CSL)?

 

[Quwa]

When you mention MEKO, you are referring too A-100 (e.g. along the lines of the polish Gowron class) or A-200 (along the lines of the South African Valour Class) or yet something else altogether (e.g. Meko CSL)?

Well from what I know, the term "MEKO" is being thrown around, but they are referring to a proper frigate. Personally I think the PN's next frigate type will an AAW-oriented type; perhaps MEKO D 500? Given the acquisition of F-22P and later MILGEM, I imagine PN would focus to establish some area-wide air defence and longer-range.

Originally I used to think the next frigate-type would be a medium-displacement/general purpose type like Type-054A or DCN FM400. However there is a strong possibility that the "medium type" will be pushed back in favour of settling two issues:

1. Coastal defence, protection of sea-lanes, general maritime duties using MILGEM and F-22P. In war-time these assets - especially MILGEM - can be used to high effectiveness in ASW, denial and short-to-medium-range AAW. These ships are cheaper than Type-054A/MEKO A200, so numbers can swell. In addition, FAC assets such as the MRTP-33 can play a substantial role in defensive operations as well.

2. A larger frigate type suitable for long-range & high-altitude AAW and possible LACM capability through Babur.

As I see it, medium-frigates of 3500-4500 tonnes displacement are more suitable for navies that have greater/larger amphibious assets; substantial development along their entire coast; and extensive naval auxiliary and support network.

I don't doubt that Pakistan can achieve those goals one day, but it certainly is not in the immediate future. The good news is that the seeds for Gwadar and a local civilian ship-industry have been planted, now we need time. Once the need arises, I think the PN would focus in-house or pursue the Turkish TF-100 or S.Korean FFX.

 

[Arsalan]

Well, for starters, there are still quite a few Asian nations which would not care to see JMSDF projecting naval power out that far, for 'historical reasons', and they would be at least as wary of such a development as they are of the development of Chinese power projection capabilities.

there is nothing new in it, , , (both for starters and old fellows)
Japnes when feel that they do need to show there presence in the blue seaz they wont be held back by few asian nation not willing to see JMSDF projecting naval power, what do you think?
it is all about your national intrests, if China thinks that there presence in Indian ocean is necessary fair enough, if India wants the MMRCAs fair enough,,,,

regards!

 

[Penguin]

there is nothing new in it, , , (both for starters and old fellows)
Japnes when feel that they do need to show there presence in the blue seaz they wont be held back by few asian nation not willing to see JMSDF projecting naval power, what do you think?
it is all about your national intrests, if China thinks that there presence in Indian ocean is necessary fair enough, if India wants the MMRCAs fair enough,,,,

regards!

It appears to me your understanding of the sensitivities involved is limited. China would be one of those few asian navies. As would be South Korea. Two countries which suffered occupation by Imperial Japan and these population have not forgotten the suffering of those days. Besides Japan, those are the two most powerfull Asian navies that I'm aware of.

 

[Arsalan]

i do have some understanding of the issue but what i cannot understand is how can one clear the sea for pleasure of other when he feel that it is necessary for his nations survival,,
anyhow let us get back to topic as we two never seem to agree on a point !!

regards!

 

[abbasniazi]

I don't know why but i am not satisfied with the procurement of F22Ps, why we are so eager to induct phassed out oliver perry class ship from US which is a 70s technology when we have F22Ps?, the answer is simple, US obsolete technology is better then the new chines frigates, thats what makes me uncomfortable with F22Ps, i think we should have brought in western technolgy instead of chinese...

 

[TaimiKhan]

I don't know why but i am not satisfied with the procurement of F22Ps, why we are so eager to induct phassed out oliver perry class ship from US which is a 70s technology when we have F22Ps?, the answer is simple, US obsolete technology is better then the new chines frigates, thats what makes me uncomfortable with F22Ps, i think we should have brought in western technolgy instead of chinese...

Abbas Sb, just imagine you are very hungry and wish to have a nicely cooked Full Chicken Roast, but unfortunately you get just a leg piece of the leg roast instead of the full desired.

So what you gonna do, eat what you get or say no no no i don't wanna eat a single piece i need full chicken roast. You will eat the piece offered to get something in your stomach & fulfill some of your hunger and wait for some other day to eat one full roast.

If you read the whole thread, it has been emphasized again & again, that for the time being F-22P is the best available option.

By the time we get hardly one OHP frigate in operational status, we might be having 3 F-22Ps in service, 2 already in testing phases. US has just said yes for one OHP, the others are in no sight of when to get, so why waste a decade on some uncertainty, as who knows when US again embargoes us and blocks the OHP in getting to us. Latest Harpoon missile row is a testament to US double standards in dealing with us.

So kindly read the whole thread, see the pros & cons of such acquisition.

 

[Arsalan]

I don't know why but i am not satisfied with the procurement of F22Ps, why we are so eager to induct phassed out oliver perry class ship from US which is a 70s technology when we have F22Ps?, the answer is simple, US obsolete technology is better then the new chines frigates, thats what makes me uncomfortable with F22Ps, i think we should have brought in western technolgy instead of chinese...

i guess taimikhan must have satisfied you with his reply. i just want to add the OHP will be sort of stop gap solution. we are about to replace our really really old type 21 frigates and OHP comes in handy as there replacement. on the other hand F22p is a new platform that will stay here to serve us for longer period of time,,
i hope you got the point!

regards!