F-16's are best to counter immediate threat!!!

[angeldemon_007]

He never mentioned about F-16 block 52 having AESA radar, he just compared the tracking range.

Sorry, i misinterpreted. Bu then he is saying the aesa range of F16IN is 300-400 km. I doubt this. But if true, we should think again about F16. This range is very lethal.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Sorry, i misinterpreted. Bu then he is saying the aesa range of F16IN is 300-400 km. I doubt this. But if true, we should think again about F16. This range is very lethal.

Range of any radar is calculated keeping a standard RCS aircraft in consideration, generally a MIG-29 is taken as a standard target having rcs of 5 sq m. Still i highly doubt that figure of 300-400km, anything around 200 is quite good. So unless the target size is given, radar range has no significance.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Still i highly doubt that figure of 300-400km,

Its the range of PAF AWACS I don't think right now its possible.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Its the range of PAF AWACS I don't think right now its possible.

Are you suggesting to buy couple of them, and then datalink them to work as Awacs?

 

[Kinetic]

# F-16's are best to counter immediate threat!!!

Why should India just look to counter current threats? EFT can counter current and future threats. Rafale also good choice. Any of these combined with their sensors and weapons like Meteor and Storm Shadow can give edge over its enemies.

 

[SpArK]

No need of an american Jet to counter "immediate" threat.

The deal is seen as a long term relationship and Americans does nt fall into the catagory.

Obama will try his best to save every american job inside US, hence its better to forget full transfer of any production, not to forget the ToT issues and sanction threats.

And politically there is no gain in getting EF too.. Once the deal is over, we will see virtually no influence which is enjoyed with single vendors like France or Russia . We wont be enjoying any strategic or political influence over Spain, Italy or even Germany. Only last month Germany has refused to sell Mp-5 submachine guns to 7 states' police forces due to the pressure from green activists s citing Bad human rights records of those states.

We never had any of those issues with Russia or France.


If speedy acquisition is the key and since the numbers have gone up to 260 , the deal should be ideally splitted between Rafale and Grippen with Rafale using infrastructure used for Mirage and the production of Grippen going to Saab_TATA JV, so that burden of HAL is reduced and we can induct quickly.

 

[Andross]

F16 is a old 70's legacy fighter even countries who have them are replacing them for f-35



it must be remembered that the F-16 is a so-called fourth-generation fighter jet. Most countries in the region, such as China, India, Australia, Japan and Singapore, are currently working on an upgrade of their air forces to fifth-generation fighters, like the Chinese-made J-20, the American F-35 and the Russian T-50/PAK-FA. South Korea and Malaysia are also rumored to be considering such a move. Even the most modern version of the F-16 will be little more than a sitting duck in any dogfight with these advanced military aircraft.

The Folly of Foreign-Made Jets | The Jakarta Globe

 

[blackops]

The combo of f18 sh and ef would be very good for us firstly the f18 can be used for deep strike missions and ef as an partner with our mki or rafel can also be a gud choice as it is a mature platform and will improve indo french relation more

 

[sancho]

F-16IN

AESA is operational
with CFT hence longest range
7.8ton payload.better then EF,Mig 35,Gripen,f-18 except rafale
single engine bt thrust equals to twin engine rafale(150KN both engine) and F-16 single engine thrust is 144KN
A true multirole.
War proven
avionics as we knw in avionics USA is second to none..and F-16IN is the newest and will have the latest avionics
AESA of f-16 range is said to be twice of the older block 52 radar which tracking range is 180-200km
I am sure the f-16 AESA will be better then the AESA for Rafale or EF in development
better t/w ratio then rafale,Gripen,f-18,Mig 35
Supercruise may be possible

well F-16 is no less then any other fighter in the MMRCA and is better then Gripen and Mig 35 in all aspect

Some corrections!

Although TWRs are often calculated with AB thrust, the dry thrust is more important, because fighters used that mainly. If you compare these, you will see the difference of single and twin engines in this regard:

Gripen NG - 62kN
F16IN - 84kN
Rafale - 100kN
Mig 35 - 106kN
EF - 120kN
F18SH - 124kN


Add that the F16IN has a higher emptyweight than the Rafale, won't remove the CFTs (because you would also remove the inflight refuelling capability), which means even more weight, it should be obvious that its maneuverability is restricted.

The main design and the US weapons are war proven, but neither the UAE B 60s, nor the IN techs and engines are.

According to reports from Greece, their Mirage 2000s has better EW systems then their F16 B52+, because the US downgrades the export versions more than others do.

The F16 B52 radar has no range of 180 - 200Km and neither will AESA give twice the range.

LM officially stated that an F16 with wingtip missiles only, could SC at mach 1.1, but only for very short times, which means SC is not possible.


At the end the F16IN is just an upgraded old design, with no future potential and like Kakgeta said, would offer PAF more advantages, than IAF, because of decades of experience with this type. AESA, or slight changes aren't important here.

 

[farhan_9909]

But we are looking for MMRCA to serve us more than 30 years, so after around 15 years of service, what will we do with F-16? for MLU update?

Nothing..!!, it will be like Mig-21 now in IAF whereas, MKIs and FGFAs will be preferred over.

why do you think it dont have any room for further upgrades?

you can add more capable radar to it.

you can upgrade its avionics

America is very far from us..they are replacing f-18 by 2020 also.

 

[rockstarIN]

why do you think it dont have any room for further upgrades?

you can add more capable radar to it.

you can upgrade its avionics

America is very far from us..they are replacing f-18 by 2020 also.

Any update, you need to upgrade the air frame, there is a limit to it, even in order to add stealth features..

 

[farhan_9909]

Sorry, i misinterpreted. Bu then he is saying the aesa range of F16IN is 300-400 km. I doubt this. But if true, we should think again about F16. This range is very lethal.

well this is mentioned in wikipedia

AN/APG-80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

\\\\it has a higher reliability and twice the range of older, mechanically-scanned AN/APG-68 radar systems./////

its range will be atleast +250Km..traccking range

 

[Skull and Bones]

why do you think it dont have any room for further upgrades?

you can add more capable radar to it.

you can upgrade its avionics

America is very far from us..they are replacing f-18 by 2020 also.

Probably not, F-18 is here to stay, take a look at the new F-18 with cft, internal weapons bay, AESA radar. The future prospects of F-18 is quite good. I don't think they are going for so much upgrades just to keep it in service for only nine years

 

[Skull and Bones]

well this is mentioned in wikipedia

AN/APG-80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

\\\\it has a higher reliability and twice the range of older, mechanically-scanned AN/APG-68 radar systems./////

its range will be atleast +250Km..traccking range

Range is nowhere mentioned here, but even if so without the RCS of the target aircraft range has no significance. You can always detect a Boeing 747 at a distance more than 200km.

 

[farhan_9909]

Some corrections!

Although TWRs are often calculated with AB thrust, the dry thrust is more important, because fighters used that mainly. If you compare these, you will see the difference of single and twin engines in this regard:

Gripen NG - 62kN
F16IN - 84kN
Rafale - 100kN
Mig 35 - 106kN
EF - 120kN
F18SH - 124kN


Add that the F16IN has a higher emptyweight than the Rafale, won't remove the CFTs (because you would also remove the inflight refuelling capability), which means even more weight, it should be obvious that its maneuverability is restricted.

The main design and the US weapons are war proven, but neither the UAE B 60s, nor the IN techs and engines are.

According to reports from Greece, their Mirage 2000s has better EW systems then their F16 B52+, because the US downgrades the export versions more than others do.

The F16 B52 radar has no range of 180 - 200Km and neither will AESA give twice the range.

LM officially stated that an F16 with wingtip missiles only, could SC at mach 1.1, but only for very short times, which means SC is not possible.


At the end the F16IN is just an upgraded old design, with no future potential and like Kakgeta said, would offer PAF more advantages, than IAF, because of decades of experience with this type. AESA, or slight changes aren't important here.

the F-16 IN is the upgraded version of the proven f-16..almost the design is same

AN/APG-68 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the f-16 block 52 radar search range is 300km..tracking range will atleast 180-200km