F-16 deal expires amid Pakistan-US row over finances

[Zibago]

I mean no disrespect but pak never had those 700 million dollars they barely managed 270 millions which where needed as a compulsion to pay for 8 block 50/52 f 16s hence its need less to say they had so much money it was actuly a great oppertunity missed because in 270 million you will never get 8 jets brand new and with decent capabilities as f 16s.

brag all you want about f 16 but currently f 16 block 50/52 is better than anything you have or you will have in near future and pak airforce needed them urgently to fill some gaps and with no funds they must be hurt like hell.
i dont think their is much money saved from this to invest in jf 17 or to buy j 10(lol not even half squadran in 270 million) or to invest in any other program.

Unit cost of J10 is 35 million and of jf17 is 28 million.options are there but inducting a new platform like j10 will reqyire additional investment

 

[MastanKhan]

Smooth. Very smooth. Iam watching you. You will go places if you continue to show interest. Carry on.
Regards
A

Hi,

One can always expect @araz to slip in the knife from behind holding someone's else's hand out of habbit.

 

[araz]

Hi,

One can always expect @araz to slip in the knife from behind holding someone's else's hand out of habbit.

No my friend if required I am very capable of tearing you apart argument from argument. It is just that I gave up on debating you because of your rants and repeated regurgitation of the same old arguments. When you lose you will come down to name calling as you have exhibited just now and many a times before.
As to the comment above which earned your ire, it was a very general and encouraging remark for a young poster who was very polite but held on to his view point . I always like that. If such a comment was made against a post of mine I would have thanked him as well. So in short I dont have the time or inclination to sit in wait to stab you in the back. I agree we look at things differently and I respect your opinion as much as anyone else although I dont agree with it.
I have previously stated that if you dont like my posts or feel I am hostile towards you please put me on your ignore list. The fact that you have omitted to do so means you are still looking to get into an argument and I dont have the time for petty arguments. As to why I responded to this post you have addressed me directly by name and so I had to clear the confusion.
Regards
A

 

[wasileo80]

I mean no disrespect but pak never had those 700 million dollars they barely managed 270 millions which where needed as a compulsion to pay for 8 block 50/52 f 16s hence its need less to say they had so much money it was actuly a great oppertunity missed because in 270 million you will never get 8 jets brand new and with decent capabilities as f 16s.

brag all you want about f 16 but currently f 16 block 50/52 is better than anything you have or you will have in near future and pak airforce needed them urgently to fill some gaps and with no funds they must be hurt like hell.
i dont think their is much money saved from this to invest in jf 17 or to buy j 10(lol not even half squadran in 270 million) or to invest in any other program.

Pakistan have money even more than 700 million dollars but as per commitment by USA they have to pay form FMF 400 million dollars and Pak have to pay 270 million. So Pakistan don't want to waste that money of FMF because if Pakistan pay full amount of 700 million dollars its most probably we will lost those 400 million. So that's why Pakistan clearly told USA that if they cut the FMF and not subsidize the deal we will not pay full price for 8 F-16s.
Secondly, Pakistan's focus is to develop JF-17s block 3 and they want to invest the bulk of their funds onto the full package they are eyeing on, like AESA, IRST, HMS/D, 5th Gen AAM and other equipment for Block 3.

And soon you will see those F-16s will be in PAF

 

[IceCold]

I think the deadline is over and naturally we did not issued LOA so is it safe to assume that the deal is now officially dead?

 

[hacker J]

Unit cost of J10 is 35 million and of jf17 is 28 million.options are there but inducting a new platform like j10 will reqyire additional investment

exactly but that unit cost is of dry plne its going to increase but atleast 25-30 million with complete weapons,sensors,repairs package anyways a fighter jet is no good without its weapons i know that but my point was different on earlier post bro.

Pakistan have money even more than 700 million dollars but as per commitment by USA they have to pay form FMF 400 million dollars and Pak have to pay 270 million. So Pakistan don't want to waste that money of FMF because if Pakistan pay full amount of 700 million dollars its most probably we will lost those 400 million. So that's why Pakistan clearly told USA that if they cut the FMF and not subsidize the deal we will not pay full price for 8 F-16s.
Secondly, Pakistan's focus is to develop JF-17s block 3 and they want to invest the bulk of their funds onto the full package they are eyeing on, like AESA, IRST, HMS/D, 5th Gen AAM and other equipment for Block 3.

And soon you will see those F-16s will be in PAF

Really they do have so much money wow then why dont they simply buy those f 16s or any other plane j 10, rafel , gripen , sukhoi etc etc to bridge short term gap ???

and even with block 3 upgrades f 16 block 50/52 will still have edge over jf 17 bro which is atleast few years away. just imagine an f 16 with aesa if you upgrade those f 16s it already has a amazing litning pod powerful engine HMD/S and even compatible with IRST, best electronics jammers.

 

[Zibago]

exactly but that unit cost is of dry plne its going to increase but atleast 25-30 million with complete weapons,sensors,repairs package anyways a fighter jet is no good without its weapons i know that but my point was different on earlier post bro.




Really they do have so much money wow then why dont they simply buy those f 16s or any other plane j 10, rafel , gripen , sukhoi etc etc to bridge short term gap ???

and even with block 3 upgrades f 16 block 50/52 will still have edge over jf 17 bro which is atleast few years away. just imagine an f 16 with aesa if you upgrade those f 16s it already has a amazing litning pod powerful engine HMD/S and even compatible with IRST, best electronics jammers.

The options we have is either get new jf17,go for new platform j10 or upgrade all older f16,s

 

[hacker J]

The options we have is either get new jf17,go for new platform j10 or upgrade all older f16,s

out of the three you mentioned what do you think is the best option ? i think upgrading f 16 and develop jf 17

 

[The Eagle]

The options we have is either get new jf17,go for new platform j10 or upgrade all older f16,s

IMO, the deal would be over but not like goodbye forever. In the meantime, we will ask for US permission to buy Jordanians F-16s and upgrade of fleet in lieu of rejecting the FMF for new birds.

 

[Zibago]

out of the three you mentioned what do you think is the best option ? i think upgrading f 16 and develop jf 17

Our priority should be upgrading all older F16,s
J10 induction was shelved in the past because we are looking for fc31 by mid 20,s
Many rumors on the internet
http://quwa.org/2016/05/24/pakistan-planning-upgrade-f-16s/
But it will only cost 100 million maybe rest will be utilized for additional jf17,s

 

[wasileo80]

exactly but that unit cost is of dry plne its going to increase but atleast 25-30 million with complete weapons,sensors,repairs package anyways a fighter jet is no good without its weapons i know that but my point was different on earlier post bro.




Really they do have so much money wow then why dont they simply buy those f 16s or any other plane j 10, rafel , gripen , sukhoi etc etc to bridge short term gap ???

and even with block 3 upgrades f 16 block 50/52 will still have edge over jf 17 bro which is atleast few years away. just imagine an f 16 with aesa if you upgrade those f 16s it already has a amazing litning pod powerful engine HMD/S and even compatible with IRST, best electronics jammers.

See you didn't get my point, we have money and we can buy those 8 F-16s even further 10 as well. But see what PAF wants to achieve?
1- As USA promised to fund those F-16s through FMF, that's why PAF go for those F-16s because it seems very cheep like in 270 Million dollar they will get 8 New Block 50/52 F-16s but when congress stoped the FMF then it is on PAF to bear full cost. Now for PAF, PAF actually wants to spare that money for JF-17 Block 3 although it is 3-4 years away but the working is going on to purchase a complete package for Block 3. So for that matter PAF willing to invest on Block 2 and Block 3 package.
2- We can buy J-10 and grippen or sukhoi but see its not only the aircraft that we will buy it and it will be operational. See for inducting a new platform there would be a lot more investment required to ope rationalize that jet from infrastructure to ground crew training, engineering training, pilot training, tactics development and many other things will cost 2 to 3 times more than the cost of the aircraft so for a new platform minimum 4-5 years required to be fully induct a new platform and operationalize it on combat duties. But for F-16s, there is no difficulty to absorb new F-16s because every thing is already there so it would only cost the aircrafts. That 's the reason why PAF going for F-16s because infrastructure is here and subsidized by USA itself. so in other meaning Pakistan will get these F-16s almost free.

3- And see Pakistan will procure old F-16s and upgrade them with block 50 standards but as far as AESA on F-16a are concerned then there is no chance in near future because USA not allowed to upgrade PAF F-16s with AESA. So F-16s whether Block 15 MLUs or Block 52s in PAF would be without AESA.

4- AESA on JF-17s will make it a formidable fighter along with IRST and HMS/D with Fifth Generation IRIS-T or A-Darter. So yes weight carrying capabilities, power ful engine, range , ECM and hard points, F-16s Block 52 will have an edge over JF-17s Block 3. But in terms of radar, IRST, Fifth generation missile and other variety of ordanance JF-17s will have an clear edge over F-16s Block 52.
Like For Naval Role, USA didnt allow our F-16s to carry Harpoon, USA refuse to release AIM-9X. So in that case JF-17s can carry long range AShM, Cruise missiles and High off boresight missiles.

And for J-10s and Grippen, those fighter will not change the PAF battle of order so much because J-10 is supplement by JF-17 and F-16s in capabilities even Block 52s are supperior than J-10 A/B. and Grippen can be supplement by JF-17s and Block 3 will come close to Grippen NG in terms of performance.
So for inducting new platform like J-10 and Grippen, it would be wise that PAF should stick to JF-17s and F-16s.
And if PAF really wants to add a new platform then they should go for SU-35 or EF (Which is too expensive).

 

[aftab_s81]

I think instead of spending 700M on F-16s, PAF should spend this money upgrading JF-17s. Block III should be the focus. Meaning they should seriously engage in J-31 development and push for an early 2nd prototype. J-31 will be future proof compared to F-16s. Lets see what PAF decides.

 

[singlefighter]

700 millions $ for eight F16 is not a wise decision. If we suppose the price of JFT block 35 million per bird then it means we can induct 20 JFT block 3 in our arsenals. That would be not a bad idea . and that has advantage of no future embargo every one is telling that with AESA radar ,HMD/S and IRST and new weapons we can make JFT block 3 near to the f16 then why we go for old guard for feared embargo like 90s. And i have also an idea what we done with phase out A 5 and F7p.can we distribute these phase out aircraft to engineering universities and engineering colleges students in their Labs for experiments carried out on them to teach them in their respective feilds like electrical,electronics mechanical and metallurgical departments .we have more then 50 engineering intitutes through out the country, might some engineers will be successful in to reverse engineering of these aircraft and get some valuable knowledge that will break the strings of dependencies on foreign millitary assistance and we successful for future new aircraft designing becoz i dont believe that we cant do this .i hope always for better solution

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

soon US will release them for shut our mouth on balochistan drone attack

and belief me we will shut up ....

Looks like Pakistan has finally decided to part ways with this gem of a fighter....F-16's...you will be missed...

oh no ......... we should go and beg and beg and beg uncle sam ..... what do you say we hand over our nucs and we will get them and in good numbers .....

 

[singlefighter]

I think in near future another arms embargo is waiting for Pakistan, becoz u.s Congress is getting ready for voting a new bill to put sanctions on Pakistan like the 90s.santions main issue are shakil afridi, operations against haqani and afghan taliban, and fissile material cut off treaty .so i don't think Pakistan will give up against new american demands F 16 will be on secondary matter main issues are above mention.Allah knows better