F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[Neo]

US Congressman introduces resolution disapproving F-16s for Pakistan



Washington, July 22:

Mr Gary Ackerman, Democratic co-chair of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans, has introduced a joint resolution in the House of Representatives disapproving the proposed sale of F-16 fighter jets and other weapons to Pakistan in a $ 5.1 billion arms deal.

The resolution, introduced on Friday, has been referred to the House Committee on International Relations which on Thursday upbraided the Bush administration for what it called a calculated move to diminish Congressional authority in rushing the deal without the traditional 20 days of pre-notification consultations to address any of its concerns.

But despite the swell of all-round anger witnessed during an open hearing, there is little likelihood of the deal being blocked, as there was no real opposition to the F-16 sale as such from either Republican or Democrat members of the panel.

To block the deal notified to Congress on June 28, both the House and the Senate must pass resolutions rejecting it before the 30-day review period runs out next week - a prospect which appeared highly unlikely - and then override a Bush veto.

Mr Ackerman introduced the resolution despite assurances from the Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs, Mr John Hillen that members’ concerns about leakage of technology from Pakistan were being addressed by “an extraordinary security plan” imposed on the planes and components, and accepted by the Pakistan Air Force.

Democrat, Mr Brad Sherman said the Congressional “outrage” over lack of consultations could not be addressed by mere promises of better behaviour in the future or a resolution of disapproval as proposed by Mr Ackerman. But he too was not opposed to the deal and wanted it to be kept on hold until the administration retraced its steps.

Describing Pakistan as a key country and a strategic partner in South Asia, Mr Hillen said Islamabad had paid a high political price with the Al Qaeda and its extremist allies assailing the Pakistani government regularly for allegedly doing America’s bidding with no benefit to Pakistan.

http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=072333

 

[melb4aust]

So whats gonna happen:what1: .

Even if they approve the deal, is Pakistan gonna get those avionics and same other stuff they've ordered. As they've already given the indication that the F-16's are not going to have usual advance tech along with the avionics.

 

[Neo]

We're going to get the deal, don't underestimate the Pakistan lobby.
F-16 won't have the nuclear delivery capability, its not a high priority for us anyway, its vital that other systems are cleared to counter IAF.
Without those the F-16 is no better than the J-10.
We'll be spilling money.

 

[Averroes]

ok but Neo, do you know what these measures are that the US are putting into the planes? tracking them or what?!

 

[Neo]

ok but Neo, do you know what these measures are that the US are putting into the planes? tracking them or what?!

Basically bugs to track position if they leave Pak aerospace, but I'm speculating.
US' main concern is not Pakistan but China. Beijing is still years away from developping some systems we've asked for, even AMRAAM 120C is too advanced for China.

Although I'm not an expert in this field, I don't think the Pentagon will keep track of PAF all 96 Falcons 24/7, it might become too costly if possible at all.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

We're going to get the deal, don't underestimate the Pakistan lobby.
F-16 won't have the nuclear delivery capability, its not a high priority for us anyway, its vital that other systems are cleared to counter IAF.
Without those the F-16 is no better than the J-10.
We'll be spilling money.

no i dont agree at all, what did our lobby in the U.S do to get us the f-16,s that we brought in the eighties what have they done for pakistan to credit them could they even get us a nuclear deal similer to the us/india deal, thier track record in this matter in zero, nada, nill, nothing they have failed us before what,s the garuanty they wont fail us again there is a saying once beaten twice shy and still we rely on this lobby i say no to U.S weapon plain and simple we are not arabs $5.1 billion is alot of money and there are a lot of other markets we can shop for our defence need.
thank:flag:

 

[Neo]

Different times, different era, different leaders, different mutual interest and different geo-politics!
The magic word is the US led WoT in which Pakistan is and will remain a key ally for a long time to come unless our politicians mess up things!

US will be involved in Afghanistan for another few years, yet another battlefield is developping at our borders; Iran!
Chinese growing interest in Balochistan hence the Arabian See and our declared nuclear capability to name a few are all major factors that make Pakistan more important to the US than ever befor!

The Indo-US nuclear deal is not a big thing, its been blown out of proportion by the media and soem political leaders!
There's a difference between getting access to civil nuclear market and being recognised as a nuclear power. The latter is not the case!
Whatever India is getting, we'll get from China as the US will have set a precedent to bypass current policie which could very well result into full elimination of the NPT, which again is a joke in the first place!

Btw Pakistan is targetting a meager 8% power supplly from nuclear enery wich is achieveable from Chinese support and indigenious designs that are under study currently.

Ofcourse we have the option to look into other markets, surly $5.1 billion will open quite a few doors but its in our interests to invest in the USA and to deepen our long term relationship.

In the post 9/11 era, its in every muslim countries interest not to alienate the USA, we can gain more from this and imho we should without compromising our integrity.

Both parties have learnt from mistakes from the past as stated by Condoleesa Rice during her visit to Pakistan and US can not afford to alienate Pakistan, she need us asmuch as we need her.
Thats a first in our 58 year old history!

 

[Averroes]

Basically bugs to track position if they leave Pak aerospace, but I'm speculating.
US' main concern is not Pakistan but China. Beijing is still years away from developping some systems we've asked for, even AMRAAM 120C is too advanced for China.

Although I'm not an expert in this field, I don't think the Pentagon will keep track of PAF all 96 Falcons 24/7, it might become too costly if possible at all.

As i said earlier, this is dangerous! We cannot have a foreign army intelligence center keeping track on our aircrafts. I don't the Pakistani army commanders would've agreed to this, so they've probably installed something else. Time will tell.

 

[Munir]

They are coslty and it is as usual a good weather friendship. But there are not much alternatives and we can blaim USA for everything but do look how well Pakistani politicians performed in the past. Corrupty and pathetic. I am not favouring non democracy but if the democratic lunatics can not perform and look only for personal improvement then we can stop blaiming others.

There are new developments in the world after 911. Anyone anywhere can be attacked and probably the danger will increase. I agree with the fact that these terroristic actions are the result of unfair world policies but blwoing up others will not make the world better place but result in more chaos. Since there is Irac,, Afghanistan, North Korea and Iran... Add to that Syria and we have a very dangerous place. Pakistan is now best armed ilsamic nations and one cannot ignore it. It can make bridges to the rest of the world and with enlightened whatever they can do a lot more then those stupid arabs that only are their thabks to oil exports.

USA can ignore Pakistan. Why not. It is a superpower and it has the right to do so. But Pakistan can move towards other resources like China and that is the last thing USA would like to see.

 

[melb4aust]

Ofcourse we have the option to look into other markets, surly $5.1 billion will open quite a few doors but its in our interests to invest in the USA and to deepen our long term relationship.

In the post 9/11 era, its in every muslim countries interest not to alienate the USA, we can gain more from this and imho we should without compromising our integrity.

Both parties have learnt from mistakes from the past as stated by Condoleesa Rice during her visit to Pakistan and US can not afford to alienate Pakistan, she need us asmuch as we need her.
Thats a first in our 58 year old history!

What relationship, this relationship is wholy based on as long as US has its personal interests involved, once they've finished goodbye Pakistan. What happened to that US after afghan war? Now tell me is it fair to offer India all the latest tech F-16's and F-18's while on the other hand putting bugs on **** F-16's, still thinking whether to approve the deal or not, trying to give us as much of a 3rd class tech.

And do you believe in Condelisa Rice? Because if you do, then you have no idea whats going on.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I have written many a times that U S didnot do anything different to Pakistan that it didnot do to its own. Pakistan screwed up on the original F 16 deal by paying up front and then not taking any legal actions once the delivery was frozen.

After the cold war was over, all the agencies in america, britain, germany, france saw a big cut back in expenses and manpower----nobody in the cabinets wanted to believe that although the cold war was over, there would be other wars that may come up. So, all the great spies and senior and junior analysts who were talking about the unknown enemy were weeded out one by one-----till these presidents and prime ministers of these western nations had yes men in place who were telling them all is fine. There is no more threat. They weakened the defences of their own countries momentarily----but indeed they had enough residual power left to take on any nation in the world without facing the russia like threat in case of combat or full fledged war.

 

[Owais]

No F-16s to Pakistan without security vow: Rice
WASHINGTON (updated on: July 27, 2006, 04:09 PST): Pakistan must provide written security assurances as part of a deal for $5.1 billion in American-made F-16 fighter jets and no equipment will be transferred until anti-diversion protections are in place, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has promised Congress on Wednesday.

Aiming to ease lawmakers' concerns over the weapons package offered to a key American ally in the war on terror, Rice said in a letter obtained by Reuters on Wednesday that before the first aircraft is delivered, Pakistan will sign a document that details Islamabad's security commitments.

In addition, "no aircraft or munitions will be delivered until US officials have determined that all security measures are in place" and Congress has been briefed on those procedures, she said.

Rice was responding to a letter from Republican Richard Lugar of Indiana, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations, and Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware, the panel's senior Democrat, who had asked her for written assurances addressing concerns raised by him and other lawmakers.

"There should be no ambiguity regarding Pakistan's obligations in the security realm," the senators told Rice.

"There should also be no ambiguity regarding Pakistan's capability to meet and enforce its security obligations," they added.

On June 28, the Bush administration formally notified Congress of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 F-16C/D Block 50/52 Falcon fighters built by Lockheed Martin Corp. in a deal worth $5 billion if all options are exercised.

Some lawmakers have expressed concerns about Pakistan's past nuclear proliferation record, citing fears technology used in the Lockheed Martin Corp F-16s could be leaked to China, Pakistan's close military ally, and by extension help Chinese arms customers like Iran and Iran's clients in the Middle East, including Hizbullah, which is now fighting Israel.

DIFFICULT TO BLOCK

Under US law, Congress could block the sale by enacting a resolution of disapproval in both houses within 30 days of the notification date, but such action is rare and it is difficult win the two-thirds majority vote needed to overcome a presidential veto.

Congressional sources said there is no credible effort to do that now and the sale is expected to go through.

A spokesman for Lugar, asked if Rice's assurances satisfied the senator, said: "He believes it is an important response that is helpful in answering questions raised by members of Congress."

But other congressional aides said they were still wary of the security plan, which was still being negotiated and should have been completed before the sale was formally proposed to Congress.

In their letter, Lugar and Biden also expressed concern about administration plans to install upgrades to Pakistan's existing older F-16s at a location in Pakistan because this might allow China -- also a major supplier of new fighter aircraft to the Pakistani air force -- to gain information about the high-performance US fighter.

But Rice insisted the updates will not be done in Pakistan. A Senate source told Reuters the work likely will be done by NATO ally Turkey, one of six non-US sites approved for this sensitive work.

"This sale is a presidential priority and is a key element of our strategic partnership and reflects our long-term commitment to Pakistan," Rice said.

The administration advanced the F-16 sale as the US Congress was taking action to approve a landmark civil nuclear co-operation agreement with India, Pakistan's nuclear rival. Islamabad has asked for a similar deal but the administration rejected it

 

[Arrow]

But Rice insisted the updates will not be done in Pakistan. A Senate source told Reuters the work likely will be done by NATO ally Turkey, one of six non-US sites approved for this sensitive work.
.....


s and no equipment will be transferred until anti-diversion protections are in place, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has promised Congress on Wednesday.

 

[Owais]

But Rice insisted the updates will not be done in Pakistan. A Senate source told Reuters the work likely will be done by NATO ally Turkey, one of six non-US sites approved for this sensitive work.
.....


s and no equipment will be transferred until anti-diversion protections are in place, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has promised Congress on Wednesday.

Thats Not good:embarassed: . Keeping an spy eye on pakistan's Inventory is unacceptable.

 

[Averroes]

get it over with, sign the ****, promise them whatever they want. it's in pakistans interest to keep the weapons to themselves as we need to protect our country against any aggression. chinese are going along fine with their own research.