F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[Neo]

I think they had to buy a certain number of planes to be able to qualify for the substantial munitions package that PAF has gotten plus the MLUs for the A/B models. This package is far more comprehensive than anything Pakistan could have gotten from France or China.

Indeed!
Furthermore the F-16C/D is meant to close growing figher gap with IAF, its availabale and PAF already has experience with the platform.
Its a logic choice for many reasons.

 

[Averroes]

What's the latest info on the deal? I can't find any news other than that which was published aug 12 - 13 ish.

 

[TexasJohn]

they dont have any su-27 instead they have su-30 and mig-29 which is around 200 is a great threat towards pakistan....

I should provide a link ( lemme look) but I read all the IAF SU-30s are being upgraded to MKI and all MIG-29s are being upgraded to close OVT class. Additionally the old Jags are also getting new EW packages and weapons.

India believes in upgrades. The MIG-21 Bison did put up a decent fight in the Cope India excercises. It surprised the USAF. China also has had similar upgrade/ reverse engineering projects with the MIG-21 airframe. I can't tell you the various designations off hand but let me look it up. It's there.

 

[TexasJohn]

Indeed!
Furthermore the F-16C/D is meant to close growing figher gap with IAF, its availabale and PAF already has experience with the platform.
Its a logic choice for many reasons.

Neo, here is my take on that. Both the IAF and PAF fall into this trap.

PAF thinks, gee, since we already have the infrastructure and training facilities for the 16 platform, we can simply " upgrade" and get there. The F-16 is also an emotional issue also in Pakistan.

IAF thinks, gee, since we are already familiar with the MIG and Sukhoi platform, lets upgrade and we will get there.

There really needs to be some thinking out of the box in both Air Forces.

Does Britian still fly the Spitfire simply because they won the Battle of Britain?

Time and technology move on. The hero of yesterday is an old man today.

Even the USAF has no more orders for the F-16 - regardless of block.

Every worthy Air Force needs to think with that philosophy.

Air superiority is a moving target. The Air Force that does not quickly adapt will be left behind.

Bottom line, Pakistan should not be wanting F-16s. Of course the US is going to offer " sweetners". Defence companies like money of course.

I bet British companies will start building the Spitfire if some banana republic was to place a firm order for 300 of them!

There are much better planes out there for the money being spent.

 

[araz]

Neo, here is my take on that. Both the IAF and PAF fall into this trap.

PAF thinks, gee, since we already have the infrastructure and training facilities for the 16 platform, we can simply " upgrade" and get there. The F-16 is also an emotional issue also in Pakistan.

IAF thinks, gee, since we are already familiar with the MIG and Sukhoi platform, lets upgrade and we will get there.

There really needs to be some thinking out of the box in both Air Forces.

Does Britian still fly the Spitfire simply because they won the Battle of Britain?

Time and technology move on. The hero of yesterday is an old man today.

Even the USAF has no more orders for the F-16 - regardless of block.

Every worthy Air Force needs to think with that philosophy.

Air superiority is a moving target. The Air Force that does not quickly adapt will be left behind.

Bottom line, Pakistan should not be wanting F-16s. Of course the US is going to offer " sweetners". Defence companies like money of course.

I bet British companies will start building the Spitfire if some banana republic was to place a firm order for 300 of them!

There are much better planes out there for the money being spent.

Texas John,
There is a problem that you have not considered in you post. It is a million dollar one!!! Money my friend. We would all like to change aircrafts like we change cars every 4-5 yrs. Technology changes are advancing at a sufficiently advanced rate for us to do so. But not even the greatest nations on the face of this Earth can afford to do so. F16 is 60-70s technology that has satisfied the American AFs need till 2010-12. It is logical to acquire a platform and use it for 20-30 yrs and upgrade the technology as it appears. Pakistan and India , to a lesser or greater instant have the same problem of high percentile of population below poverty line , a country whose infrastructure demands massive money that they dont have and threat perception! If you looked at it objectively,with both countries having become Nuclear powers, the likelihood of war is minimal and consideration of even a limited aggression would be mad. That is why armies are accumulated at the borders, sabres are rattled and then it is back to normalcy. There is not going to be a war in the region now or ever! But would this prevent both countries from accumulating arms. No. So the second best thing is to upgrade for sabre rattling exercises.I hope you get the drift.
Araz

 

[TexasJohn]

Araz, you do have a very valid point. Sabre rattling appears to be the order of the day. I've watched the Wagah border closing video. It is like watching a comedy show.

 

[Neo]

Good points Taxas John but Araz' reply is as good and valid!
Its not only the money but also accessability to world markets which has resulted into the downscaled purchase of the F-16.

Never the less I'm pretty content with this choice, F-16 will compliment the JF-17 and JC-20 and most likely another 4.5 gen fighter till 2020 and a total of 96 is a good number.

Pakistan could have opted for the Typhoon or the Rafale but not in this quantity. With current budget we can't afford to have more than 24 of these jets, but we need to replace a fleet 300 ageing designs!

F-16 is a logic and a good choice. The design may not be the latest available, its the armament wich makes it lethal.
Look at the broader picture and you'll understand!

 

[Neo]

United Technologies Beats GE on F-16 Deal, People Say (Update1)


By Tony Capaccio and Rachel Layne

Aug. 23 (Bloomberg) -- United Technologies Corp., the world's third-largest maker of airplane engines, won a contract to supply turbines for as many as 36 F-16 fighter jets being bought by Pakistan, people familiar with the order said.
The company's Pratt & Whitney unit beat General Electric Co. for the engine deal, said five people with knowledge of the order who asked not to be named because it hasn't been announced. They declined to put a value on the transaction because the exact number of planes hasn't been determined.

An initial 18-engine order is worth about $200 million, said Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia. The award will boost Pratt & Whitney's engine business as production of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-16 slows in favor of its F-35 Lightning II, formerly known as the Joint Strike Fighter. Pratt & Whitney sells the main engine on older F-16s, including those used by Pakistan.

``It's tough to unseat an incumbent,'' Aboulafia said. ``But it is a good win. F-16 work is winding down, so it is essential for Pratt to avoid a trough until the JSF ramps up.''
The engine order may be announced next month in Pakistan, when the country's government is expected to sign its formal request for aircraft, engines and armaments, the officials said.

Pratt & Whitney spokeswoman Heather Summerer declined to comment, as did Rick Kennedy, a spokesman for Fairfield, Connecticut-based General Electric. Akram Shaheedi, Pakistan's press attache in Washington, didn't return a call seeking comment.

Shares of Hartford, Connecticut-based United Technologies, which trails GE and Rolls-Royce Group Plc in jet-engine sales, fell 13 cents to $60.77 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. GE fell 17 cents to $33.79.

$5 Billion Package

Congress last month approved a basic arms package for Pakistan, valued at as much as $5 billion, including 18 new F-16 fighters with an option to buy 18 more. The single-engine aircraft were to be powered by either GE or Pratt & Whitney, the Pentagon said.

Aboulafia said the initial 18 engines are valued at about $200 million, and more than twice that when upgrades and spare parts are included. The F-16 deal ends a 15-year ban on sales of the fighter to Pakistan, an important ally in the fight against terrorism.
Pratt & Whitney is the sole engine provider for the F-35 Lightning II until 2012, when GE can compete with an engine made in a venture with London-based Rolls-Royce. GE is fighting in Congress to restore funding for a backup engine, which the Pentagon wants to eliminate to reduce costs.
Military Orders

Pratt & Whitney's military division provided about one-third of the engine maker's 2005 revenue of $9.3 billion. Military engines at GE made up $3.5 billion of the aviation division's $11.9 billion in sales last year.

The Pakistan transaction also includes 36 advanced pilot helmets that can display targeting information on the visor, as many as 500 of Chicago-based Boeing Co.'s kits to assemble satellite-guided bombs for ground attacks, and as many as 1,600 laser-guided bombs produced by Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed and Waltham, Massachusetts-based Raytheon Co.

The package also includes 700 bunker-buster, 2,000-pound BLU-109 bombs; 800 Mk-82 unguided munitions and 700 Raytheon air- to-air missiles.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_cKQnpTO7Uc

 

[Quwa]

Guess the Pakistani F-16s will be Block 52+ - was a given since the older F-16s also use P&W engines; and the PAF is poising to cut down on logistical costs as much as possible.

With regards to the PAF F-16 deal; to be very blant, that deal has stuff that India already and does not operate - yet. So I think the deal is fine - with the exception of cost - but as of now, cheaper and equally as good options are NOT available to PAF.

 

[TexasJohn]

Guess the Pakistani F-16s will be Block 52+ - was a given since the older F-16s also use P&W engines; and the PAF is poising to cut down on logistical costs as much as possible.

I could have sworn they were GE engines in the old ones. Did P&W go to some specific countries for export?

 

[Zeeshan S.]

So we are finally getting 700 AMRAAM Raytheon missiles? This is a great news!

 

[melb4aust]

So we are finally getting 700 AMRAAM Raytheon missiles? This is a great news!

700 i dont think so, i think they are around 400.

 

[Owais]

The package also includes 700 bunker-buster, 2,000-pound BLU-109 bombs; 800 Mk-82 unguided munitions and 700 Raytheon air- to-air missiles.
.

what class of this misile we will be getting?? AIM 120A/B/C/D??
is BLU-109 is a JDAM???

 

[Quwa]

I could have sworn they were GE engines in the old ones. Did P&W go to some specific countries for export?

The F-16A/B only uses P&W F100-PW-200. GE engines were introduced on the F-16C/Ds.

For everyone else;
The PAF F-16 deal includes; 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM, 200 AIM-9M8/9, 500 JDAM kits, and the 700 BLU-109s are bunkerbusters.

 

[Averroes]

Not relating to this current purchase but when Turkey receives F-35, would they consider selling their F-16s to Pakistan you think?