Exploring India

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yeah I thought so..The deity looks like a combination of Brahma with the four heads and Durga with the multiple arms. But I did not know She was worshipped throughtout East Asia.

She is very popular in South East Asia too.

I kept the pictures limited to China/Japan/Korea (East Asia) so that there wouldn't be too many pictures all at once. But go to Thailand for example and you will see plenty of Guanyin (Avalokitesvara) worship there too.

 

[KS]

These deities are not Vedic...........Hinduism is a bit more than the 4 Vedas.

Ok yaar..whats the big deal..there is a possibility that they originated from India and he also says so..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Ok yaar..whats the big deal..there is a possibility that they originated from India and he also says so..

Their original names were in Sanskrit, so yes they did originate in India.

Their current names are just Chinese translations of the original Sanskrit. The Chinese translations then went to Korea, Japan, and South East Asia too.

For example in Korea, Guanyin is known as "Gwan-eum". And in Thailand as "Kuan Im".

 

[Joe Shearer]

Getting a bit presumptuous, are we ?



I meant armed as in armed with weapons...Trishul, chakra, sword etc..She looks more like Goddess of war. Is there any background for that ?

Dear KS, a bit of kindly advice: stick to Hindutva. Hinduism is deep, and some of us are out of our depths in those deeps. This is meant with sincerity.

Count the heads on the statue of Avalokitesvara. Count the three-headed structures as four heads, and the topmost two as single heads. This is the eighteen-headed form of the Bodhisattva. If you have the patience to count her arms, you will find a hundred. This is the Chandi manifestation of this Bodhisattva.

Many Hindu deities were represented in parallel in Buddhism. In fact, there was an erroneous thought that Avalokitesvara himself (as male) was a form of Isvara, Siva, since that is what the 'sandhi' seems to imply from the rules. Actually, there is a form of the name, Avalokitasvara, which is legitimate in Sanskrit, and which was the original form. The Chinese form was earlier thought to be a distortion, based on misunderstanding. It is now known to be an exact and precise translation of Avalokitasvara, he who hears the sorrows of the world. It was because he heard the sorrows of the world and his head burst into eighteen pieces. The Buddha then made him eighteen-headed. He then fought to bring salvation to all, and faltered, so the Buddha gave him the many arms and weapons of Shakti, in her Chandi avatar.

Buddhism and Hinduism borrowed and exchanged a lot in late mediaeval India, and Tantric forms of both exist. This was largely the theological milieu in which Vikramshila, Nalanda and their three sister institutions flourished, this was one of the forms that the very learned Atish Dipankar took with him when he revived Tibetan Buddhism. It is evident from the forms and aspects in which the Bodhisattvas were visualized in China, and in east Asia, that there was a continuing and lively exchange in those centuries.

Just for the record, not a single one of them is a 'Vedic' deity. They are certainly in one manifestation Puranic Hindu deities.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Just for the record, not a single one of them is a 'Vedic' deity. They are certainly in one manifestation Puranic Hindu deities.

My mistake, since it came from India in the form of Sanskrit I mistakenly assumed that they must be from the Vedas.

It would probably be more correct to say they are "Dharmic" Deities.

 

[zaxcolix]

Shall we blame that on the Brahmins ?

AFAIK there used to be a belief that indians must not cross the border of the bharat-varsha or else they would become a mleccha..

And the reason suggeted by kingkobra could also be one of the reasons..

...If you give credit the Brahmins for evolving gurukuls schools into universities then you can also blame them for putting restrictions on foreign travel

on a more serious note .....only in Manusmriti where only Brahmins were not allowed to go to foreign lands as it involved leaving 'punyabhoomi' (holy land) India, danger involving eating 'unclean' food, living with strangers with unclean habits, inability to take the daily ritualistic bath, inaccessibility to Ganga to wash your sins, and inability to perform sharad if one dies in a foreign land and will not be able to escape the cycle of reincarnation.

India culture/religion always laid stress on education and knowledge and original thinking. These universities were only a natural extension of the same culture.

 

[manojb]

Map of Xuanzang's journey into India.

This dude is one kick-*** back packer, seriously. There are lot of documentaries on Marco Polo( c.1254 – January 8-9, 1324) and his travel to East. Someone either chinese/indian should make documentaries on Xuanzang(c. 602–664)

 

[Yogi]

Shall we blame that on the Brahmins ?

AFAIK there used to be a belief that indians must not cross the border of the bharat-varsha or else they would become a mleccha..

And the reason suggeted by kingkobra could also be one of the reasons..

I don't think the Meelcha theory gotta do much to this...

I believe its got more to do with geographic n demographic issues.

1. Himalayas r very rough terrain for any military adventure even in modern times let alone thousands of years before besides they didn't had much to offer for agriculture or other mineral resources in those times bcoz of ice cover or the deserts whereas the northern plains were the center of attraction.

2. Chinese population was literally thousands of kms away from the subcontinent n it was useless to go for such an adventure unless ur a Alexender or Ashoka which was a rare thing in those days.

3. Historically India was n still is one of the few regions in the world with abundant fresh natural water n fertile land.
Therefore, neither the Gulf nor the Chinese had much to offer but that not true in case of SE Asia n thats why u see such a strong culture impact of Hindusim n Buddhism there.

4.In historic times the Subcontinent had remained a bunch of small regional empires fighting to gain control over the Subcontinent(atleast for most of the times), so unless u have a strong footing at home how will u go for a global adventure....

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

This dude is one kick-*** back packer, seriously. There are lot of documentaries on Marco Polo( c.1254 – January 8-9, 1324) and his travel to East. Someone either chinese/indian should make documentaries on Xuanzang(c. 602–664)

The Journey to the West is very popular in East Asia, so everyone here knows about Xuanzang. (Who was based on the real Xuanzang).

For example, the Japanese TV series "Dragonball" was based on the Monkey King "孙悟空", which is pronounced as "Son Goku" in Japanese.

 

[KS]

Dear KS, a bit of kindly advice: stick to Hindutva. Hinduism is deep, and some of us are out of our depths in those deeps. This is meant with sincerity.

Count the heads on the statue of Avalokitesvara. Count the three-headed structures as four heads, and the topmost two as single heads. This is the eighteen-headed form of the Bodhisattva. If you have the patience to count her arms, you will find a hundred. This is the Chandi manifestation of this Bodhisattva.

Many Hindu deities were represented in parallel in Buddhism. In fact, there was an erroneous thought that Avalokitesvara himself (as male) was a form of Isvara, Siva, since that is what the 'sandhi' seems to imply from the rules. Actually, there is a form of the name, Avalokitasvara, which is legitimate in Sanskrit, and which was the original form. The Chinese form was earlier thought to be a distortion, based on misunderstanding. It is now known to be an exact and precise translation of Avalokitasvara, he who hears the sorrows of the world. It was because he heard the sorrows of the world and his head burst into eighteen pieces. The Buddha then made him eighteen-headed. He then fought to bring salvation to all, and faltered, so the Buddha gave him the many arms and weapons of Shakti, in her Chandi avatar.

Buddhism and Hinduism borrowed and exchanged a lot in late mediaeval India, and Tantric forms of both exist. This was largely the theological milieu in which Vikramshila, Nalanda and their three sister institutions flourished, this was one of the forms that the very learned Atish Dipankar took with him when he revived Tibetan Buddhism. It is evident from the forms and aspects in which the Bodhisattvas were visualized in China, and in east Asia, that there was a continuing and lively exchange in those centuries.

Just for the record, not a single one of them is a 'Vedic' deity. They are certainly in one manifestation Puranic Hindu deities.

I dont remember claiming that I knew all about Avalokiteswara or Hinduism (nobody can claim they know enough about Hinduism) and that is precisely why I asked Chinese Dragon about why a Buddhist Deity was carrying arms when the guiding principle of Buddhism is non-violence.

It would really help if people could cut down the snide remarks (which can be replied to) and actually concentrate on the issue, rather than on the person. And that is a sincere request from me.

p.s: Thanks for the explanation though.

 

[Developereo]

I consider all this as part of Indian sub-continent. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh included.

Actually, since a lot of discussion is about Buddhism, I would include Nepal and, especially, Afghanistan.

Although I don't know if Afghanistan was ever considered part of greater India (outside the Maurya empire).

Also not sure what role Sri Lankans (Sinhalese) played in all this.

 

[Joe Shearer]

...If you give credit the Brahmins for evolving gurukuls schools into universities then you can also blame them for putting restrictions on foreign travel

on a more serious note .....only in Manusmriti where only Brahmins were not allowed to go to foreign lands as it involved leaving 'punyabhoomi' (holy land) India, danger involving eating 'unclean' food, living with strangers with unclean habits, inability to take the daily ritualistic bath, inaccessibility to Ganga to wash your sins, and inability to perform sharad if one dies in a foreign land and will not be able to escape the cycle of reincarnation.

India culture/religion always laid stress on education and knowledge and original thinking. These universities were only a natural extension of the same culture.

An interesting reaction. In my view, universities were a Buddhism phenomenon, not Hindu. I cannot think of a Hindu university. This is not a studied or informed response; anybody with facts to the contrary is welcome to cite those.

We cannot blame the Brahmins for the universities ;-) but we can remember that the Buddhists were inveterate wanderers Nd traveled widely bearing the Buddha's message.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

1. Himalayas r very rough terrain for any military adventure even in modern times let alone thousands of years before besides they didn't had much to offer for agriculture or other mineral resources in those times bcoz of ice cover or the deserts whereas the northern plains were the center of attraction.

2. Chinese population was literally thousands of kms away from the subcontinent n it was useless to go for such an adventure unless ur a Alexender or Ashoka which was a rare thing in those days.

That's right.

The cradle of Chinese civilization was in "Zhongyuan" (Central Plains) along the Yellow River.

If you also consider the near-impassable obstacle of the Himalayas, then China and India might as well have been on different planets in terms of geographical access.

But some individuals like Xuanzang and Faxian made the effort, all the way from Zhongyuan and back again. And it paid off big time.

 

[anonymus]

Its a Public Diplomacy Initiative taken by Government of India (Ministry of External Affairs) to inform and attract people around the world towards Indian culture, customs, dance forms etc.

Its a good initiative to build Soft Power by using the inherited characteristics of India and to make a positive impression among people of every country.

As there are many posters from around the world on this forum, we want to inform about India. Its a good platform and helps in creating understanding, removing doubts and learning about various aspects of India.

It also helps in highlighting the cultural ties of India with other nations since a long time.

P.S. A humble request. Kindly avoid India bashing videos.This thread is to inform about India and its rich cultural heritage.

No bashing of any country, no comparison with any country (in negative way).

@WebMaster Kindly issue a statement regrading Code of Conduct in this thread.

Palimpsest: India and Europe - YouTube

Is this advertisement by external affairs ministry?

Then people think why everyone thinks of India as land of snake charmers????

Anyway @KRAIT thanks for all other videos but i find this one creepy.

 

[Star Wars]

Yes that is likely.

The Vedic Deities appear differently to different people in different countries. Theoretically they are supposed to be incarnations of the same original Deities.

The Weapons of these deities carry and the deities themselves would not be comprehend able for a normal human being , hence the deities comes in form and presents themselves in ways which is more comfortable for a normal human being who is accustomed to a particular culture... Essentially...in the end the same deity would be perceived differently at different places....

For example the Mayan God kukulcan has a striking similarity with Lord Vishnu

It appears that Kukulcan is a combination of Garuda and Sesa(gods of the water)
If you visit temples in India you will see many drawings representing Vishnu associated with both the eagle and the serpent. In the Hindu beliefs Garuda is said to represent the solar deities and Sesa(gods of the water)


Its entirely possible that these are the same divine presence in both places....Its kinda fascinating and Mystical when you think about it...