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Experts Wary of Pakistan Nuke Claims

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Days after Pakistan hinted that it possesses a sea-based second nuclear strike capability, Indian Defence Ministry officials remained silent on the matter, and outside observers were skeptical that the Navy had such a capability.

On May 19, the head of the Pakistan Navy, Adm. Asif Sandhila, inaugurated the Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC). A press release by the military’s Inter Services Public Relations stated the NSFC “will perform a pivotal role in development and employment of the Naval Strategic Force,” and was “the custodian of the nation’s 2nd strike capability.”

Beyond the announcement, Pakistan’s Navy has said little about the office or about the service’s capabilities.

In February, Sandhila told Defense News that the Pakistan Navy was mindful of India’s plans to complete the sea-based arm of its nuclear triad, and was “taking necessary measures to restore the strategic balance” in the Indian Ocean region.

Christian Le Mière, a research fellow for naval forces and maritime security at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent is “most likely” the widely speculated submarine-launched variant of the Babur/Hatf-7 (Vengeance-7) cruise missile.

“The Babur is already nuclear-capable and is expected to be used on submarines,” he said. “I have not seen verifiable evidence of any tests for a submarine-launched version, but it is perfectly feasible that a [submarine-launched cruise missile] is now available.”

Analyst Usman Shabbir, with the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, said Pakistan has been working on its sea-based deterrent for some time.

“When the Babur was first revealed in 2005, it was claimed that it is mainly designed to be deployed from submarines. There was at least that speculation,” he said.

The Navy “has pretty good experience in using similar systems; for example, both submarine-launched Harpoon and Exocet [missiles] use a similar system, and [the Navy] has operated both for a long time.”

Shabbir speculated that the Babur/Hatf-7 missiles might be fired from torpedo tubes, similar to UGM-84 Harpoons.

But Le Mière believes there may still be some room for doubt.

“The phrase ‘sea-based second strike’ suggests a surface vessel could also be used if a submarine-launched version is not yet ready,” he said. “But obviously, while a surface vessel is mobile, it is far less survivable and far more detectable than a sub.”

As for Pakistan’s neighbor to the east, Harsh Pant, international relations lecturer at the Department of Defence Studies at King’s College in London, said India is neither alarmed nor disadvantaged by this development.

“India had factored this reality into its force posture much before this acknowledgement,” Pant said. “I do not see this changing the ground reality, insofar [as the] India-Pakistan nuclear posture is concerned. Despite what outsiders might think, nuclear deterrence in South Asia remains robust.

“The real problem remains the role of non-state actors,” he added. “In that context, Pakistan’s sea-based second strike capability is more reassuring, because the non-state actors will not have as easy access to it as the land- or air-based one.”

He said, “Indian policymakers should welcome this development, as it removes the veil of secrecy over this issue.”

New Delhi analyst Nitin Mehta also cast doubt on Pakistan’s nuclear maritime capability.

“It is unlikely that Pakistan has the capability to design and develop a sea-based nuclear missile, since even China, which is known to be helping Pakistan in its nuclear capabilities, does not possesses a credible submarine-launched missile,” he said. “Pakistan could be developing an undersea nuclear ballistic missile, but it cannot do it on its own.”

Other analysts are not certain the Pakistan Navy can afford to undertake the responsibility of the nation’s second-strike capability.

Brian Cloughley, a former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, said the size of Pakistan’s submarine force is too small to carry out such a task.

“Pakistan’s current submarine fleet is not adequate in numbers [although well-trained] to be able to undertake detection and effective interdiction of the Indian fleet, given its size — which is increasing, even if slowly,” he said.

Pakistan has two refurbished 1970s-era Agosta-70 and three 1990s-era Agosta-90B subs. The latter are equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP) or are in the process of being retrofitted with the AIP module, and incrementally entered service beginning in 1999.

Le Mière believes Pakistan could, at a stretch, maintain a constant deterrent patrol.

“Once all the Agosta-90Bs are fitted with AIP, this should theoretically allow for one submarine deployed for most of the time, with another in refit and another in reserve,” he said. “In theory, this allows for constant patrols, but in reality, problems with boats usually lead to gaps if there is a three-boat fleet.”

Le Mière conceded, though, this would cause other problems.

“This would be the majority of the Pakistani fleet dedicated to nuclear strike, or certainly dedicating a significant portion of its arsenal to nuclear-tipped Baburs,” he said. “Hence, whether this second-strike capability will in fact be deployed in a form of near-constant at-sea deterrence is questionable until Pakistan is able to procure further submarines to fill the conventional role, as well.”

Cloughley said the interdiction of India’s fleet “must remain [the Navy’s] first priority,” and he considers “conversion of the present assets to take Babur not only costly, but a most regrettable diversion of budget allocation.

“I would go so far as to say that, in present circumstances, it would be a grave error if such a program were to go ahead,” he added.

Pakistan has a requirement for 12 to 14 subs to meet Navy expansion plans. This would allow for a constant war patrol of at least one deterrent-tasked submarine, leaving other submarines to carry out more traditional tasks.

However, Cloughley is still certain that Pakistan does not require such a capability.

“[Pakistan] has plenty of nuclear-capable SSMs and strike aircraft, and does not need a Navy-oriented second-strike capability,” he said.

Correspondent Vivek Raghuvanshi in New Delhi contributed to this report.

Experts Wary of Pakistan Nuke Claims | Defense News | defensenews.com

This is the link for the nuke claim:
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...-Deterrent?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
 
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China, which is known to be helping Pakistan in its nuclear capabilities, does not possesses a credible submarine-launched missile.
The things people do to delude themselves :cheesy:............. I think we have been over this topic numerous times and it's pointless to keep on discussing it over and over. Would be great if mods will just close it.
 
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Pakistan will shock the world, in it's overcoming of complex engineering problems, to ensure the establishment of a powerful credible destructive second strike capability.
 
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Pakistan will shock the world, in it's overcoming of complex engineering problems, to ensure the establishment of a powerful credible destructive second strike capability.

Clearly this is not the kind of news Indian experts wanted to hear so they have gone into denial
 
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Pakistan will shock the world, in it's overcoming of complex engineering problems, to ensure the establishment of a powerful credible destructive second strike capability.

You should acknowledge the fact that it is impossible for Pakistan to have a second strike, because if there will be any first strike from say India, nothing in Pakistan will be left for a second strike which even your political & military leaders know that & that is why Pakistan never adhered to a no first use policy, In a case of war, Pakistan will always will be in nuclear dilemma that either to use it first or to lose it forever!
 
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You should acknowledge the fact that it is impossible for Pakistan to have a second strike, because if there will be any first strike from say India, nothing in Pakistan will be left for a second strike which even your political & military leaders know that & that is why Pakistan never adhered to a no first use policy, In a case of war, Pakistan will always will be in nuclear dilemma that either to use it first or to lose it forever!

we can't let our guard down.....bcoz this NSFC is created by means of planing sec. strike.......sub are in deep oceans....it is not very easy for any country to track submarines of enemy.......In that case we should rely in our BMD Systems.
 
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Kind of make me feel that they got the feeling the conventionally we have almost lost it, lets have the nuclear thing ready, because they think that conventionally they will lose soon and will need non conventional means to survive.

I agree they should work on nukes.
 
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Clearly this is not the kind of news Indian experts wanted to hear so they have gone into denial

what it is......first strike or second strike

it does not show any nations capability to launch nuclear weapons............
India also Had many striking ways.....so prepare ur BMD first bfor launching missiles at neighbours
 
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Kind of make me feel that they got the feeling the conventionally we have almost lost it, lets have the nuclear thing ready, because they think that conventionally they will lose soon and will need non conventional means to survive.

I agree they should work on nukes.

conventional bettel is a matter of weeks if not days in favore of India. they know it very well.

hence they are working on the nukes so hard.
nuclear sub????????????? well not sure, with the chinese help any thing is possible.
but it can be a conventional sub with missile launch capability & not the nuk sub.
ssn or ssbn is a different sum game & at present Pakistan dont have the tech or money to operate one.
 
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Clearly this is not the kind of news Indian experts wanted to hear so they have gone into denial

No one India is in denial. As usual you jumped in after reading the title. Its the 'external' observers voicing their skepticism. How did the Australian defence attache in Pakistan become an Indian ?
 
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I love how these bhartis are "anal-lyzing" the situation here on PDF :lol:

Bhartis are sooooooo brainwashed that I feel pity on them. Just yesterday , I was watching a Indian media report regarding Pakistan's Nasr missile and the "expert" they took on phone for his "expert opinion" said " Well , China is helping Pakistan in building its missile arsenal. They (Pakistanis) aren't capable enough to design and built missiles. I don't even think that this missile (Nasr) is nuclear capable" :lol:

Man o man ... if THIS is "India's expert on TV" then may Bhagwaan help bhartimata... This "expert" will be "factually/intellectually" r*ped by Pakistanis if he had said this on PDF ... Indian experts should atleast visit PDF to get educated...

No wonder bhartis are so brainwashed lot..and when they come to PDF....they get a 'shock' :cheesy:

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Regarding Naval Strategic Command ....Only building is made and officers have moved in ..the strike-capability is not "operational" .....YET. ;)
 
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I love how these bhartis are "anal-lyzing" the situation here on PDF :lol:

Bhartis are sooooooo brainwashed that I feel pity on them. Just yesterday , I was watching a Indian media report regarding Pakistan's Nasr missile and the "expert" they took on phone for his "expert opinion" said " Well , China is helping Pakistan in building its missile arsenal. They (Pakistanis) aren't capable enough to design and built missiles. I don't even think that this missile (Nasr) is nuclear capable" :lol:

Man o man ... if THIS is "India's expert on TV" then may Bhagwaan help bhartimata... This "expert" will be "factually/intellectually" r*ped by Pakistanis if he had said this on PDF ... Indian experts should atleast visit PDF to get educated...

No wonder bhartis are so brainwashed lot..and when they come to PDF....they get a 'shock' :cheesy:

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Regarding Naval Strategic Command ....Only building is made and officers have moved in ..the strike-capability is not "operational" .....YET. ;)

Moderators Please Note This Troll
 
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Lets analyse the situation, pakistan says it has 2nd strike capability in a sub based missile..2nd strike means war has already started and defences are on a war footing with ur awacs ,radars, airforce and naval patrolling on very high levels.
Now pakistan has all diesel subs which are small and cant house large ballastic missiles.more over the subs pakistan operates are pretty old and cant undergo huge modifications has the only optional missiles are babur cm n the haft or any 350 km BM. To fire a 350 km BM pak subs must come at least 250_300kms near our shores which will not happen especially indias large survace fleet and 2 nuke subs one being an akula patrolling those areas hence if a BM can't be fired oppurtunity of delivering a huge payload hence a large nuclear warhead is negeated.

2nd option is babur cm range 700 km payload 300kg say pakistan fires a babur 500km fromindian shores only major city it can target is mumbai and a 300kg warhead means a tactical one, plus a subsonic cm is veryeasy to engage if fired from such large distances if detected and that I hope will be detected with the worlds best awacs in world with india rite now(ppl may differ tough atleast in top 3), lets say even if the missile breaches the defences allit will manage is a tactical nuke in a second strike is it worth??

Can some knowledged person answer ??
 
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