Expatriate Pakistanis visit Israel

[A.Rahman]

Bull wrote:

You cant blame the Israelis for putting their head down and developing a formidable army and a vibrant country while palestineanes where just mere pawns in the hands of the very arabs.


Isreal is a military state, what do you expect; of course they do have large army

Are you crazy..jews enjoying rights in a Islamic country.Arent they islam's eternal enemy?


When they had Islamic state back then, muslims,jews & christains lived in peace, they were even given high postion in king's court.

No jews are not Islam's enemy, we only dont like Zionist, Jews are people of the book like christains & are held in high regard, they come from line of prophets, that are respected in Islam too.

Israel withdrew from Gaza and Lebenon...what did they get in return???

You are forgetting that Isreal is an illegal state, they have occupied land by force


Children hmmmm.. have a look at those pictures.Now of somebody fires those rockets into Israel from that crowd surrounded by children then they are the ones who are putting the childrens life at risk.Israel cant let their civilians die for the sake of palestinean children.

From the pics you posted, it looks like they are celeberating, maybe wedding? dont know.

I dont see kid firing rocket at Isreali settlement.


The US realised that Pkaistani soil has been used by forces that threaten the world and thats why they asked Mushraff to join WoT or face music.

US is using Pakistan for its need & we are doing the same for their weapon.

wise move by Musharraf.

 

[A.Rahman]

So you the moderator of PFF, feels that Americans wont be Americans if they dont kill and rape women and children for no reason.

o yea that is wrong..... I am really sleepy.. 2 am here in Canada, thank you for pointing this out

 

[Bull]

Isreal is a military state, what do you expect; of course they do have large army.

its democratic state,has elections,has courts....?Why would you call it a military state.

No jews are not Islam's enemy, we only dont like Zionist
.

All jews are considered as zionists,so gain back to what is aid.Muslims hate jews.And its mutual.

You are forgetting that Isreal is an illegal state, they have occupied land by force.

So this can only be solved if israel ceased to exist,is it? So you are towing the same line as Ahmedinjad.

From the pics you posted, it looks like they are celeberating, maybe wedding? dont know.

I dont see kid firing rocket at Isreali settlement..

I didnt say Kids fire rockets,you can also see men among those children if they fire rockets Israeli retaliatory fire would definitly kill children among them.

I really appreciate seeing kids firing Ak 47 to celebrate weddings?

 

[Bull]

o yea that is wrong..... I am really sleepy.. 2 am here in Canada, thank you for pointing this out

Cheers

 

[Sid]

Nobody is underestimating your importance,but you wont be able to live as an islamic country after recognising Israel and renewing diplomatic ties..you wont be a aprt of OIC, you will have to face the backlash from the muslims...and so on. Pakistan is finding it hard to maintain a healthy relationship with US, a secular state, So Israel is far far away.

Really? I do not see Egypt and Jordan being kicked out of OIC even though they recognize Israel, trade with it and have a peace treaty with it and they're STILL Islamicate (not Islamic - learn the difference between the two words) countries/societies so why not Pakistan?

Pakistan only finds it difficult to cope with US' foreign policy, overall a majority of educated Pakistanis respect US' values (such as freedom of speech and expression). Relations with Israel are not possible due to more political differences than any religious issues.

 

[Sid]

its democratic state,has elections,has courts....?Why would you call it a military state.

Israel is a National Security State and there is NO denying that no matter what. My friend A. Rahman may have not used the proper words but his intentions were correct in pointing out the fact.

All jews are considered as zionists,so gain back to what is aid.Muslims hate jews.And its mutual.

That is a fallacy. All Jews are not considered Zionists because they simply are not and Muslims don't 'hate' Jews for who they are or what faith they subscribe to. For centuries they both have lived together and prospered together in the region.

So this can only be solved if israel ceased to exist,is it? So you are towing the same line as Ahmedinjad.

Israel being an illegitimate state or not is for the world to decide but what it does on a daily basis to the Palestinians by subjugating them, occupying more of their lands, building barriers, making life hell is ALL considered Illegal and Criminal under international law, which ironically enough is considered by Israel not applicable to it. A state not respecting international laws and conventions! Hmm.. Rogue state anyone?? ...As dubya would say!

I didnt say Kids fire rockets,you can also see men among those children if they fire rockets Israeli retaliatory fire would definitly kill children among them.


I really appreciate seeing kids firing Ak 47 to celebrate weddings?

Killing of civilians by both sides is a dissappointing approach to the conflict and a criminal one. As far as firing Ak-47 or whatever to celebrate weddings, its become a tradition and that is just what they do. If you want to live in a pluralistic world, learn to respect others' traditions and culture. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone didnt agree with a lot of wierd traditional things that happen in India.

 

[Bull]

Israel being an illegitimate state or not is for the world to decide but what it does on a daily basis to the Palestinians by subjugating them, occupying more of their lands, building barriers, making life hell is ALL considered Illegal and Criminal under international law, which ironically enough is considered by Israel not applicable to it. A state not respecting international laws and conventions! Hmm.. Rogue state anyone?? ...As dubya would say!.

They withdrew from lebenon and gaza.didint they

As far as firing Ak-47 or whatever to celebrate weddings, its become a tradition and that is just what they do. If you want to live in a pluralistic world, learn to respect others' traditions and culture. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone didnt agree with a lot of wierd traditional things that happen in India.

AK 47 been part of a tradition ,that says a lot right. And that too in the hands of the children. Wow.

 

[sigatoka]

AK 47 been part of a tradition ,that says a lot right. And that too in the hands of the children. Wow.

In modern warfare the ak-47 is a toy, Bull should know that.

 

[Sid]

They withdrew from lebenon and gaza. didint they

They did so as part of a highly conceived plan which was to withdraw from Gaza while annex land in West Bank in its stead. Big Deal! And they did so under their 'unilateral' disengagement plan which is entirely unacceptable. Because when there is a dispute, things are done by mutually agreeing on things, not unilaterally.

AK 47 been part of a tradition ,that says a lot right. And that too in the hands of the children. Wow.

Says what? Says nothing! Its how it is in that region and you cannot change that. And its their children. They're not coming and shooting up your townsfolk to celebrate a wedding. They fire a few shots in the air. Your intolerance is more than visible by your posts.

 

[Bull]

Says what? Says nothing! Its how it is in that region and you cannot change that. And its their children.They're not coming and shooting up your townsfolk to celebrate a wedding. They fire a few shots in the air. Your intolerance is more than visible by your posts.

what?

 

[Neo]

Neo, i think the most important and critical part of India - Israeli friendship is India's access to israeli weapons and if its going to take decades for pakistan to get access to that,it wont hurt Indo Israeli friendship.

I already said that weaponsales to Pakistan are unlikely to happen nor does Pakistan has the need to buy them.
But I do believe that dipolomatic ties will somehow have an impact on Indo-Israel dealings as they'll have to maintain good relations with one of the most important muslim country that recognises her!
But under the current circumstances there's no chance of an opening window..

Nobody is underestimating your importance,but you wont be able to live as an islamic country after recognising Israel and renewing diplomatic ties..you wont be a aprt of OIC, you will have to face the backlash from the muslims...and so on.Pakistan is finding it hard to maintain a healthy relationship with US, a secular state, So Israel is far far away.

Wrong again!
Turkey, Egypt and Jordan are keyplayers in OIC, all have recognised Israel!

 

[Spring Onion]

Originally Posted by Bull
Neo, i think the most important and critical part of India - Israeli friendship is India's access to israeli weapons and if its going to take decades for pakistan to get access to that,it wont hurt Indo Israeli friendship.

Well for weapons' sale thers is no need for diplomatic ties

If u r getting my point :biggrin:

 

[A.Rahman]

under current circumstances.. NO WAY!.

 

[Neo]

under current circumstances.. NO WAY!.

Agreed, current aggrivation shown toward innocent civilians in Lebanon has made me change my mind!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Israel is a National Security State and there is NO denying that no matter what. My friend A. Rahman may have not used the proper words but his intentions were correct in pointing out the fact.




That is a fallacy. All Jews are not considered Zionists because they simply are not and Muslims don't 'hate' Jews for who they are or what faith they subscribe to. For centuries they both have lived together and prospered together in the region.

That Jews are not hated maybe a valid point to some extent.

If both the communities have lived together for ages, then why the animosity? It is indeed regrettable that there is so much of animus and that results in the unwanted killing of innocent civilians on both sides with hardly a scratch on the military or quasi military of the contestants.

In so far as the prosperous aspect is concerned, one has to just observe that Israel has prospered and made the desert bloom. The Arab side wallows in poverty and even the agriculture is not worth writing home about. It is the question of psyche - being industrious or being plumb lazy!

I cannot believe that in the various wars fought with Israelis, the Arabs who outnumbered them in all departments have roundly been defeated all the time. Even the Yom Kippur where they Arabs did magnificently and then petered out.

Israel being an illegitimate state or not is for the world to decide but what it does on a daily basis to the Palestinians by subjugating them, occupying more of their lands, building barriers, making life hell is ALL considered Illegal and Criminal under international law, which ironically enough is considered by Israel not applicable to it. A state not respecting international laws and conventions! Hmm.. Rogue state anyone?? ...As dubya would say!

Israel is not an illegitimate state or is it?

The Wall is not legal, but then it has halted to a great degree the attacks on the Israeli civilians. Maybe, this was for self preservation or self defence, if one wants to call it so.

Killing of civilians by both sides is a disappointing approach to the conflict and a criminal one. As far as firing Ak-47 or whatever to celebrate weddings, its become a tradition and that is just what they do. If you want to live in a pluralistic world, learn to respect others' traditions and culture. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone didnt agree with a lot of wierd traditional things that happen in India.

Killing of civilians is indeed disgusting.

It is true that Arabs fire for the sake of noise or whatever to celebrate. It also shows that there is enough money going around to waste on a precious commodity - ammunition - that is required to take on Israel. Therefore, money is no problem with the Arabs.

Indeed, a lot of people will not appreciate weird traditions anywhere - be it in India or Pakistan or the US.