Exclusive: US intel shows Saudi Arabia escalated its missile program with help from China

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Saudi Arabia, China pledge to strengthen economic, military cooperation
Source: Xinhua| 2019-03-29 22:30:20|Editor: mingmei

Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (R) meets with visiting Chinese State Councilor and Minister of National Defense Wei Fenghe in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, March 26, 2019. (Xinhua/Li Xiaowei)

RIYADH, March 29 (Xinhua) -- Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud pledged to strengthen economic and military cooperation with China, to promote peace and stability in the region.

He made the remarks during a meeting with visiting Chinese State Councilor and Minister of National Defense Wei Fenghe on Tuesday in Riyadh.

Saudi Arabia and China have a long-lasting friendship and their strategic relationship is under continuous development, he said, adding that the two countries are important cooperative partners of the Belt and Road Initiative.

"Saudi Arabia expects to increase bilateral economic cooperation and personnel exchanges, and deepen military collaboration, to jointly promote regional peace and stability," he said.

The initiative, proposed by China in 2013, refers to the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road, which aim at building a trade and infrastructure network connecting Asia with Europe and Africa along the ancient trade routes of the Silk Road.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud said that bilateral cooperation in all fields has yielded fruitful results, and Saudi Arabia is willing to strengthen cooperation with China in politics, economy and security, during a meeting with Wei.

The crown prince expressed expectation for the two militaries to carry out more pragmatic cooperation and expand new areas, as military cooperation is an important cornerstone of the Saudi Arabia-China relationship.

Wei said that China attaches great importance to its relationship with Saudi Arabia and their relationship has become a model for state-to-state relations.

Under the leadership of the two states, the comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries has undergone in-depth development.

The Belt and Road Initiative and the Saudi Vision 2030 reform plan have a broad prospect and bilateral military ties have maintained a sound momentum of growth, Wei said.

"China is willing to work with the Saudi military to implement the consensus of the leaders of the two countries, expand pragmatic cooperation, and promote bilateral military relations," Wei added.

Wei also held talks on Wednesday with Saudi Arabia's Assistant Minister of Defense Mohammad bin Abdullah Al-Ayesh.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-03/29/c_137934740.htm

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Saudi Arabia, China have established ‘comprehensive strategic partnership’

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Updated 03 August 2019
LOJIEN BEN GASSEM
August 03, 2019

• Chinese Embassy counselor says the two sides have also enhanced political trust

RIYADH: Zhu Xinglong, counselor at the Chinese Embassy in Riyadh, said Saudi Arabia and China have established a comprehensive strategic partnership.

Discussing Chinese-Saudi bilateral relations during an interview, he said: “The two countries have set up the China-Saudi Arabia high-level joint committee.”
“The two sides have also enhanced political trust and maintained good momentum in pragmatic cooperation in the fields of economy, trade, energy, science, technology, education and culture, and have achieved fruitful results. The complementarity between the Belt and Road Initiative and the Saudi 2030 Vision has great potential,” he said.
Incorporating the Chinese language into the education curriculum in Saudi schools would have a profound influence on China-Saudi relations, he said. “Next year we will celebrate the 30th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Saudi Arabia. Thanks to 30 years of joint effort, the more mature, stable and profound China-Saudi relations will further serve the common interests of the two countries.”
He described how his government is determined to implement the “One Country, Two Systems” policy.
“During the recent demonstrations and violent attacks in Hong Kong, some irresponsible people in Western countries made some irresponsible remarks and played a disgraceful role,” Xinglong said. “I would like to reiterate here that Hong Kong is China’s Hong Kong and Hong Kong affairs should not be interfered with by external forces.”
Xinglong said that Hong Kong was under attack and the violence had been going on for more than a month. “The radical demonstrators have escalated violence. They violently attacked the legislative council, ruined the facilities and smeared the Hong Kong special administrative region emblem; they blocked the liaison office of the central government and defiled the national emblem, which makes the situation even more critical.”
“This has seriously affected the rule of law, social order, economic livelihood and international image of Hong Kong,” he said.
Xinglong said that the Chinese government would continue to support the chief executive, Lin Zhengyue, and the government of the special administrative region, uniting people to safeguard Hong Kong according to the law and to handle the current problems.

Next year we will celebrate the 30th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Saudi Arabia.

Zhu Xinglong, Counselor at the Chinese Embassy, Riyadh

Xinglong also discussed China-US relations and trade talks. “History and realism prove that China and US will both benefit from cooperation and will both suffer from conflict. It is normal for both sides to have a disagreement in economic and trade fields, and it is crucial to deal with it properly in the spirit of mutual respect and equality and benefit, and to find a solution that both sides accept.”
During the 12th round of China-US high-level trade talks in Shanghai, Xinglong said that the two sides achieved frank and constructive communication.
Xinglong said that the two sides also discussed China increasing the purchase of American agricultural commodities according to China’s needs, and the US providing good conditions for such a purchase.
The Chinese economy was expanding, with 6.3 percent growth in the first half of 2019, Xinglong said. “China is determined to implement economic structural reform and industrial transforming and upgrading, release the dynamics of the market through reform and innovation, and to maintain the momentum of a stable and positive economy.”
President Xi Jinping had announced at the Osaka G20 summit that China would further carry out measures to open up the Chinese market, he said. “Greater initiative will be demonstrated in expanding imports, more steps will be taken to improve the business environment, equal treatment will be extended to all foreign investment, and greater efforts will be made to advance trade talks to accelerate the opening-up and achievement of high-quality development.”

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1534636/saudi-arabia

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Saudi Arabia Pivots toward China: The Rise of a New Global Order

https://wacaustin.org/saudi-arabia-pivots-toward-china-the-rise-of-a-new-global-order/

There is most likely someone with a too big mouth or the open "secret" of acceleration in recent years of the RSSMF could no longer be kept at bay.

Most likely medium-range systems capable of carrying nuclear warheads have already been developed. Depending on the speed of the "acceleration process" quite possibly long-range as well. In particular as China is heavily involved.

If I had to make a guess, China is betting on the right horse (Arabian at that too, lol) as I can see KSA being one of China's biggest military partners. Already is to an extent. China would love to have access (physical as well) in such a key strategic location as KSA even more with the CPEC and Silk Road initiate as we connect 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) and the most key sea trade route (the vast, vast majority of the world's trade is conducted by ship) (Red Sea) not to mention the natural resources that China depends on and will depend on for at least 40-50 years.

 

[Ahmad Bhutta]

Saudi Arabia Pivots toward China: The Rise of a New Global Order

https://wacaustin.org/saudi-arabia-pivots-toward-china-the-rise-of-a-new-global-order/

There is most likely someone with a too big mouth or the open "secret" of acceleration in recent years of the RSSMF could no longer be kept at bay.

Most likely medium-range systems capable of carrying nuclear warheads have already been developed. Depending on the speed of the "acceleration process" quite possibly long-range as well. In particular as China is heavily involved.

If I had to make a guess, China is betting on the right horse (Arabian at that too, lol) as I can see KSA being one of China's biggest military partners. Already is to an extent. China would love to have access (physical as well) in such a key strategic location as KSA even more with the CPEC and Silk Road initiate as we connect 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) and the most key sea trade route (the vast, vast majority of the world's trade is conducted by ship) (Red Sea) not to mention the natural resources that China depends on and will depend on for at least 40-50 years.

Any of these video in English?

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Any of these video in English?

None that I am aware of.

There is this though (have in mind that both CNN and Al-Jazeera are anti-KSA media):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1136601413503594496

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

http://millennialreview.org/2019/08...pabilities-with-trump-administration-backing/

https://intpolicydigest.org/2019/08...ile-program-will-heighten-tensions-with-iran/

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/o...d-nuclear-arms-race-gulf-190801130430388.html

@The SC

Looks like what I wrote once is happening and what I "suspected" would occur.

by Baset Asaba
Aug 13, 2019

Advanced Nuclear Reactors Hold Promise Of Clean Energy For Gulf Countries
The case for investing in advanced nuclear reactors as an alternative energy source is compelling. Russia and China have an advantage in the development of advanced reactors, thanks to state financial backing

Getty Images


Saudi Arabia will be one of a handful of countries expected to receive state-of-the-art advanced nuclear reactors from China and Russia, according to a new report.

The report, “Advancing Nuclear Innovation: Responding to Climate Change and Strengthening Global Security,” was commissioned by the Global Nexus Initiative. This is a project established by the Partnership for Global Security, a Washington DC-based think tank, and the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI), which represents the US nuclear energy industry. It is a publicly available assessment of the non-proliferation, security, and geopolitical characteristics of advanced nuclear-reactor technology.

The report, which took 16 experts over a year to produce, says that advanced reactors will likely be ready for deployment within one to two decades, setting the stage for major technological competition among powerful geopolitical rivals.




Although complicated by politics, the economic case for countries to invest in civil nuclear reactors as part of a mix of alternative energy sources is compelling. The Global Nexus Initiative report says the international community should strive to make sure that any race for market share among geopolitical competitors strengthens nuclear governance rather than weakens it.

“In order to meet the energy and climate challenges which the world faces, advanced reactors should be ready for deployment in the 2025 to 2030 framework,” said John Bernhard, a senior associate at the Partnership for Global Security who earlier served as Denmark’s ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

“These reactors will generally have various advantages — they are smaller and more flexible than traditional reactors, which means inter alia that in many countries, including Saudi Arabia, they can be deployed in remote and arid areas.”


Saudi Arabia’s growing electricity needs are currently met almost entirely by oil and natural gas. In 2016, for example, 40 percent of its electricity came from oil. The result is a loss of potential export revenue. What is more, Saudi Arabia expects a 40 percent jump in electricity demand between 2019 and 2030, according to Khalid Al-Falih, the energy minister.

Electricity use will rise in the Kingdom due to the ongoing growth of urban areas and plans to develop a strong manufacturing sector. At the same time, according to the Electricity and Cogeneration Regulatory Authority (ECRA), nine percent of the electricity is used for desalination, on which Gulf countries are heavily dependent in the absence of fresh-water sources.

Compared with traditional nuclear reactors, the advanced ones can offer reduced construction time and costs, and a wider variety of sizes and outputs for different locations and applications.

“Besides emission-free electricity generation, they may help in desalination of sea water, which could provide a new source of fresh water to areas in need,” Bernhard said.

“A general benefit of nuclear energy is its potential role in producing carbon-dioxide emission-free electricity for a number of purposes. For the foreseeable future, renewable energy sources like wind and sun will probably not be able to deliver the output needed, such as in industrial development.”

Nuclear-energy experts say advanced reactors offer interesting new possibilities, especially for nuclear newcomers such as Saudi Arabia.


“From a climate-change standpoint, this may be a valuable contribution to the achievement of the Paris Agreement goals from some of the biggest oil-producing countries,” Bernhard said. “I would expect that for various reasons, several Gulf states will be interested in including nuclear energy, partly from advanced reactors.”

The economic case for countries to invest in civil nuclear reactors as part of a mix of alternative energy sources is compelling.

A case in point is Saudi Arabia. Among the many goals of its Vision 2030 is a reduction in dependency on oil revenues. To this end, the government has set ambitious goals for renewables, such as 9.5 gigawatts of solar and wind power by 2023.

According to Lady Barbara Judge, former head of the UK Atomic Energy Authority, advanced nuclear reactors are modern, safer, smaller, more convenient and compact. So, “if a country like Saudi Arabia is starting a nuclear program, it might as well start with the best new technology on the market because that’s a great advantage,” she told Arab News. “Saudi Arabia starts with a clean slate and it’s a very fortunate position to be in.”

With their nuclear-export strategy linked to their geopolitical ambitions, Russia and China have an advantage in the development of advanced reactors thanks to state financial backing.

Bernhard said: “Several countries with a nuclear energy tradition and industry are involved in the development of advanced reactors.

“At the moment, it seems that in particular Russia and China have positioned themselves strongly, because of years of experience in this field and state involvement in financing.

“There is a clear geopolitical angle to this. For instance, the sale and servicing of new facilities normally will promote and uphold strong political and economic relations between the providing and the receiving countries for a long period of time.”

The peaceful use of nuclear energy has been globally important for more than 60 years, resulting in 452 nuclear reactor units in 32 countries, most of them in Europe, North America, East Asia, and South Asia.

“Nuclear energy is clean and generates 24/7 so it’s a good companion to sun and wind. Renewables such as solar and wind are excellent sources of energy but dependent on weather conditions, which aren’t always stable,” said Lady Judge, who is also a member of the International Advisory Board for the development of nuclear energy in the UAE.

“So you need to have a stable force of clean energy which is available around the clock to back up any other system of power generation.”

Of course there is no glossing over the importance of the newcomers ensuring, in cooperation with the IAEA, that their nuclear facilities, whether advanced or traditional, live up to the highest standards and requirements with regard to security.

Nuclear technology can have dual use, peaceful or weaponized. An extensive and effective international safeguards regime, implemented by the IAEA, exists to contain the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons.

However, because of their unique features, advanced reactors do not easily fit into the existing national regulatory or international governance regimes, according to the Global Nexus Initiative’s report. In fact, they pose new challenges for the safeguards system.

As such, they will be subject to new security measures to help prevent a hostile outside attack, nuclear terrorism and insider sabotage. “These new technological challenges must be effectively addressed,” the authors of “Advancing Nuclear Innovation” say. “Several countries are focused on developing advanced reactors, including the US, Canada, South Korea, the UK, France, Russia and China. But the lack of a developed regulatory system and regulator experience is a challenge for all nations.”

As advanced nuclear reactors move through the design and development phase, it is also vital to have well-developed test beds to demonstrate the technology, the report says, adding that Russia and China have an advantage in this area.

According to Dr. Peter Bode, a former associate professor in nuclear science and technology at Delft University in the Netherlands, the use of nuclear-power plants in the future energy mix is beyond debate.

“Solar, wind and other renewables will not be sufficient,” he said. “But the future of nuclear in the region is positive, with plants in the UAE expected to be operational soon and used as an example that will quickly be followed by others.”

In a region where the future of oil and gas is unknown, nuclear power is expected to play a significant role. “It is a good companion, even currently, and certainly in the future,” Lady Judge said.

“And that feeling of energy security and energy independence, which nuclear brings, is one which many countries in the Gulf would like to share.”

https://www.utilities-me.com/power/...ld-promise-of-clean-energy-for-gulf-countries

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Saudis to Prospect for Uranium, Thorium with China – over US Objections
Mar 14, 2019 @ 19:34 DEBKA Weekly


Saudi Arabia is pushing ahead with a geological survey to explore and assess its uranium and thorium resources in the kingdom’s western Hail Province, in the face of US objections. Although this largely agricultural region was always thought to hold small supplies of these substances, Riyadh suddenly perked up of late to its potential after Chinese geologists turned up promising finds.

Hail produces large quantities of dates and fruit and most of the kingdom’s wheat and grain. It has historically derived its wealth as a wayside station on the camel caravan Hajj route to Mecca.

Most of the world’s uranium is found either in northern countries like Canada or Russia or the south in places like South Africa and southern Australia. Jordan is thought to have substantial reserves, up to 65,000 tons of uranium plus the potential to extract 140,000 tonnes from phosphates. Foreign firms have been given mining contracts.

However, DEBKA Weekly’s sources report that Chinese geologists hired by the Saudi government reported that Jordan’s uranium deposits extend south as far as Saudi Arabia’s Hail. Riyadh’s eagerness to co-opt Beijing to the start of its uranium mining project has raised suspicions, especially in Washington, that Saudi Arabia is secretly conducting a nuclear program a lot bigger than suggested by intelligence findings.
The project is going forward as a partnership between the King Abdullah City for Atomic Research and Renewable Energy (KACARE) and China’s National Nuclear Cooperation (CNNC) for the stated aim of “exploring uranium and thorium deposits for peaceful use.”

Last October, the KACARE president Hashim bin Abdullah Yamani said his agency was tasked with “nuclear plans” and proposed to “extract uranium domestically as part of its nuclear program” and a step towards “self-sufficiency in the production of atomic fuel.”

Five months ago, Crown Prince Muhammed bin Salman laid the cornerstone for the kingdom’s first nuclear research reactor. This posed a question: Why does the nation with the world’s largest reserves of oil need nuclear reactors for power? It also raised the suspicion that the Saudis wanted a possible infrastructure for manufacturing plutonium from the nuclear fuel produced by this research reactor.

In past negotiations with the Obama administration, the Saudis firmly refused to relinquish their right to enrich uranium for use as nuclear fuel for their power reactors project. The Trump administration, in contrast, is prepared to countenance uranium enrichment in Saudi Arabia under restrictions, despite strong objections in both houses of congress. Antagonism to Saudi Arabia among US lawmakers remains high over the suspicion that the crown prince engineered the death of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi last year.

Although Riyadh replies that putting nuclear energy to civilian use will free up more of its oil for export, no one doubts that its overriding motivation is in the realm of “security.” The Saudis deeply resent lagging behind Iran’s nuclear efforts and watch with covetous and suspicious eyes the rapid nuclear advances achieved by their ally, the United Arab Emirates. In 2018, the UAE completed the construction of its first civilian nuclear plant. In an agreement with the United States the UAE signed a commitment not to use the reactor for uranium enrichment in return for which it was granted international assistance. The Saudis refuse to undertake this commitment, maintaining that since Iran is allowed to enrich uranium, they too have this right.

Ali Shamkhani, secretary of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council, on Wednesday, March 13, accused regional powers of “spending their petrodollars on suspicious nuclear projects” that could endanger security in the region and the world. He did not name those powers. Those new threats, Shamkhani said, would force Iran to revise its strategy depending on their nature and geography and the needs of “our country and armed forces.” Last month, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif accused the United States of hypocrisy for trying to wreck Iran’s nuclear program while seeking to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, Tehran’s regional rival. The Saudi government has so far, with unusual stubbornness, refused to turn over to Washington any information on the nuclear program it is running out of King Abdullah City, or explain what Chinese engineers and technicians are doing there. Therefore, the decision to prospect for uranium and thorium in the Hail province has widened the differences between Riyadh and Washington on the nuclear issue. In an effort to bridge the gap, the US was last week reported to be “encouraging Saudi Arabia to consider bids by American companies to build nuclear reactors.” Washington hopes that if US companies like Westinghouse win those contracts, the administration will have access to a much clear picture on what is going on inside the Saudi nuclear program.

https://www.debka.com/saudis-to-prospect-for-uranium-thorium-with-china-over-us-objections/

Saudi Arabia's first nuclear reactor nearly finished, sparking fears over safeguards

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...early-finished-sparking-fears-over-safeguards

KACARE launches uranium program to train Saudis

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1464706/saudi-arabia

Saudi Arabia owns 5% of global uranium reserves

https://english.mubasher.info/news/3251245/Saudi-Arabia-owns-5-of-global-uranium-reserves

As Saudi Arabia Builds A Nuclear Reactor, Some Worry About Its Motives


Bomb Watchers Twitching as Looser Rules Weighed for Uranium

Countries encouraged to look at extraction from phosphates, providing potential new pathways to the nuclear material used in reactors and weapons

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...xpand-phosphate-link-to-weapons-proliferation

Wa’ad El-Shamal: The capital of global phosphate

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/article/551114

Wa’ad Al Shamal pivotal in development of KSA’s vast phosphate reserves

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/arti...elopment-of-KSAsvast-phosphate-reserves?rss=1


Saudi crown prince warns it will build nuclear bomb if Tehran does the same
Prince Mohammed bin Salman is pressing the US to allow Saudi Arabia to enrich uranium in return for choosing American nuclear technology

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-iran-nuclear-bomb-threat-mohammed-bin-salman

Saudi missile program expanded with help from China, US intel said to show
Trump administration reportedly withheld information from Congress, raising concern it is tacitly approving move; fears raised Riyadh could be seeking nuclear weapons

https://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi...d-with-help-from-china-us-intel-said-to-show/

Exclusive: US intel shows Saudi Arabia escalated its missile program with help from China

Pakistan

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/...udi-arabia-ballistic-missile-china/index.html

Saudi Arabia, China have established ‘comprehensive strategic partnership’

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1534636/saudi-arabia

Saudi Space Agency Begins To Take Shape, Reported $1 Billion Budget In First Year

https://spacewatch.global/2019/04/s...hape-reported-1-billion-budget-in-first-year/

Connect the dots.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The Saudi government has so far, with unusual stubbornness, refused to turn over to Washington any information on the nuclear program it is running out of King Abdullah City, or explain what Chinese engineers and technicians are doing there. Therefore, the decision to prospect for uranium and thorium in the Hail province has widened the differences between Riyadh and Washington on the nuclear issue. In an effort to bridge the gap, the US was last week reported to be “encouraging Saudi Arabia to consider bids by American companies to build nuclear reactors.” Washington hopes that if US companies like Westinghouse win those contracts, the administration will have access to a much clear picture on what is going on inside the Saudi nuclear program

Interesting . Seems the Saudis are not a Western puppet as many here claim. Lol

 

[delta2]

With the kind of wealth and resources the KSA has they should have built bases on the moon by now. They should have been a massive military power self reliant in all things with veto power.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Interesting . Seems the Saudis are not a Western puppet as many here claim. Lol

Ignorant kids at play.

With the kind of wealth and resources the KSA has they should have built bases on the moon by now. They should have been a massive military power self reliant in all things with veto power.

You are overreacting. KSA is the third richest country in the world in terms of natural resource and mineral wealth (some 50 trillion USD) after Russia and USA but in terms of economic size KSA is "just" the 18th largest economy in the world out of some 200 sovereign countries of the world.

No country on the planet, not even the US with a 20 times larger economy have permanent bases on the moon.

KSA is already a regional military power and easily in the top 20 of most powerful militaries.

Only 5 countries have veto power and they are the same countries that had it 70 years ago. They won't welcome any new boys into the club anytime soon.

In any case, KSA could not do what you wrote, purely due to a relatively small population. All the largest economies in the world and most powerful militaries in the world are what they are largely due to their enormous population. USA, China, Russia, India, Japan etc. would not be anywhere close to what they are today if they had say 25-30 million natives as KSA has.

Even European powers like Germany (85 million), France (65 million) and UK (similar number) are the most populous countries for European standards, outside of Russia which I already included.

If there was 1 Arab country or even 3 big regional Arab countries, we could talk, as such a country would be the size of Russia and have 500+ million people (quickly growing) as well but that is unlikely to occur anytime soon. More realistic for 3-4 strong regional Arab blocs to emerge one day in a different political reality and order. Say the Arab Middle East (GCC, Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon) as one country (Sudan could be included too) and the rest being the Arab Maghreb. For example. Could be further divided. In any case the reality is that there are 20+ Arab countries and that is how it is for now.

KSA's main weakness is a relatively small population. Not land mass (size), not natural resources and minerals, nor geography. I cannot imagine what our economic size would be if we had say 200 million people. Easily many times larger as of now. Anyway our population is growing much like the entire Arab world and I firmly believe that ARabia will eventually unite one day so population will not be a problem either (today 85 million in Arabia alone and growing). Reaching 100 million would be a good number.

 

[delta2]

Ignorant kids at play.



You are overreacting. KSA is the third richest country in the world in terms of natural resource and mineral wealth (some 50 trillion USD) after Russia and USA but in terms of economic size KSA is "just" the 18th largest economy in the world out of some 200 sovereign countries of the world.

No country on the planet, not even the US with a 20 times larger economy have permanent bases on the moon.

KSA is already a regional military power and easily in the top 20 of most powerful militaries.

Only 5 countries have veto power and they are the same countries that had it 70 years ago. They won't welcome any new boys into the club anytime soon.

In any case, KSA could not do what you wrote, purely due to a relatively small population. All the largest economies in the world and most powerful militaries in the world are what they are largely due to their enormous population. USA, China, Russia, India, Japan etc. would not be anywhere close to what they are today if they had say 25-30 million natives as KSA has.

Even European powers like Germany (85 million), France (65 million) and UK (similar number) are the most populous countries for European standards, outside of Russia which I already included.

If there was 1 Arab country or even 3 big regional Arab countries, we could talk, as such a country would be the size of Russia and have 500+ million people (quickly growing) as well but that is unlikely to occur anytime soon. More realistic for 3-4 strong regional Arab blocs to emerge one day in a different political reality and order. Say the Arab Middle East (GCC, Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon) as one country (Sudan could be included too) and the rest being the Arab Maghreb. For example. Could be further divided. In any case the reality is that there are 20+ Arab countries and that is how it is for now.

KSA's main weakness is a relatively small population. Not land mass (size), not natural resources and minerals, nor geography. I cannot imagine what our economic size would be if we had say 200 million people. Easily many times larger as of now. Anyway our population is growing much like the entire Arab world and I firmly believe that ARabia will eventually unite one day so population will not be a problem either (today 85 million in Arabia alone and growing). Reaching 100 million would be a good number.

All I read was a list of excuses. The fact is the with all its wealth and resources the KSA is almost an irrelevant player in the international arena.

You took my remarks about the veto power and lunar bases way too literally. If the number of population was a real factor then Indonesia, India and the big African countries should have been world powers 50 years ago. It took China almost 70 years to reach where they are given their enormous population. An average Indian has seen no improvement in his misery and even with its billion + population India is incapable of building anything on its own.

Anyways, my point was totally lost.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

All I read was a list of excuses. The fact is the with all its wealth and resources the KSA is almost an irrelevant player in the international arena.

You took my remarks about the veto power and lunar bases way too literally. If the number of population was a real factor then Indonesia, India and the big African countries should have been world powers 50 years ago. It took China almost 70 years to reach where they are given their enormous population. An average Indian has seen no improvement in his misery and even with its billion + population India is incapable of building anything on its own.

Anyways, my point was totally lost.

Not excuses but facts. As I told, name me a single country with the population size of KSA that is more influential in the world? KSA has tremendous political, religious, cultural etc. clout in the Arab world, MENA region and Muslim world. As well as in terms of natural resources and minerals. Basically de facto controlling OPEC.

That is incorrect. Indonesia is the largest Muslim economy (due to population) and India is poised to become the third largest economy as well (due to population again).

China's rise would not have occurred either without its massive population.

So let us agree to disagree.

 

[delta2]

Not excuses but facts. As I told, name me a single country with the population size of KSA that is more influential in the world? KSA has tremendous political, religious, cultural etc. clout in the Arab world, MENA region and Muslim world. As well as in terms of natural resources and minerals. Basically de facto controlling OPEC.

That is incorrect. Indonesia is the largest Muslim economy (due to population) and India is poised to become the third largest economy as well (due to population again).

China's rise would not have occurred either without its massive population.

So let us agree to disagree.

Norway.

The City of London as a city wields more influence than many countries, including the KSA.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Norway.

The City of London as a city wields more influence than many countries, including the KSA.

Norway is nowhere close to KSA when it comes to influence. Are you serious? Not even a larger economy. In any case Norway is the most oil rich country in Europe and with a population of merely 5.5 million. Less than a few neighborhoods in Riyadh combined. Which makes the average Norwegian incredibly rich as a consequence similar to how Qataris are the richest in the world based on GDP per capita due to numbering just 300.000 nationals and being home to one of the largest natural gas reserves in the world.

City of London is the financial center of the world (alongside NYC) and London has almost 50% of KSA's combined population. Not sure if London has a bigger economy though.

Also let's not forget that the UK (England) was the cradle of industrialization in the modern world and thus had a head start for over 300 years (almost) as well as not long ago plundering colonies for their riches (British Empire - largest in history to date).

KSA should be compared with other developing countries with a similar population size, recent history etc.

By all accounts, KSA is poised to become a top 15 (some saying even reaching top 10) economy in the future. That is a pretty great position. Top 5% in the world (almost 200 sovereign countries as I wrote earlier in the thread).

 

[delta2]

Not excuses but facts. As I told, name me a single country with the population size of KSA that is more influential in the world? KSA has tremendous political, religious, cultural etc. clout in the Arab world, MENA region and Muslim world. As well as in terms of natural resources and minerals. Basically de facto controlling OPEC.

That is incorrect. Indonesia is the largest Muslim economy (due to population) and India is poised to become the third largest economy as well (due to population again).

China's rise would not have occurred either without its massive population.

So let us agree to disagree.

Indians have been forging their growth numbers for the last many years.

I am not discussing religious importance here. Had it not been due to the extreme hard work the Chinese put in, China would be no different from India of today which is a cesspool of misery, poverty, inhumanity and absolute suffering.

Norway is nowhere close to KSA when it comes to influence. Are you serious? Not even a larger economy. In any case Norway is the most oil rich country in Europe and with a population of merely 5.5 million. Less than a few neighborhoods in Riyadh combined. Which makes the average Norwegian incredibly rich as a consequence similar to how Qataris are the richest in the world based on GDP per capita due to numbering just 300.000 nationals and being home to one of the largest natural gas reserves in the world.

City of London is the financial center of the world (alongside NYC) and London has almost 50% of KSA's combined population. Not sure if London has a bigger economy though.

Also let's not forget that the UK (England) was the cradle of industrialization in the modern world and thus had a head start for over 300 years (almost) as well as not long ago plundering colonies for their riches (British Empire - largest in history to date).

KSA should be compared with other developing countries with a similar population size, recent history etc.

By all accounts, KSA is poised to become a top 15 (some saying even reaching top 10) economy in the future. That is a pretty great position. Top 5% in the world (almost 200 sovereign countries as I wrote earlier in the thread).

Norway out ranks the KSA in many terms, including political influence.