Excalibur Assault rifle

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Do we still need a stamped receiver unit these days? MCIWS in 6.5 grendel should be the standard infantry rifle with 7.62x39 and 5.56 conversions. Apart from that, I like the charging handle on this version, hopefully this can be the second line for law enforcement and Paramil.

MCIWS is good for equipping SOF, Anti Insurgency units like RR.

Not for equipping whole Army with it.

 

[MilSpec]

Hello falsie,wazzup!!

any info from users

MCIWS is good for equipping SOF, Anti Insurgency units like RR.

Not for equipping whole Army with it.

why not?

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

This is a stopgap at best. The MCIWS looks far more promsing.

Ergonomic stock/ collapsing with a decent cheek weld
Ergonomic grip
Full P rail options (3,6,9,12)
Ambi charging and safety
Flip up iron sights

Barrel swapping and caliber swap

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O1QUqKsFZgNTMcZKpnYEDG5zzhWld4eOR6xz3QcksNz5emwE9G2XVjw6khUUSxKFddRi7jIxqXOwPsJovTPqfFCi9ayqPUCKWalU0lyqjJ0MoGT44IkhXOeF8RrWzarWs9M8+6xGT6jkZvfBOuG7o4F1TSuv8AEPy6n3GVP2E5h2XIqfvt+8cK7LzEVXpHgXWfYXWAanYuf01u6M/+X0/vNxpVVcBlIYHcEEEH2InkEVlbn4zKcG41cWhBtK7p4kBu78qdpakerYTiHAuuWuhC3lFagHN6fcf3IPdP7Tb+A9bVncvodalFi2BrAZee2WXl8yo6BCIDnlFgEIRYFeoNzIysncbxmmBAyRhSWdMQrAx90wUepOAPWNNA43O/jDiAxVo55aiPnG0vukDCXHDyd0dg3gc7fIlgK2BncgbybD62GBpwNJ/rmQKzrXCndSudhyMkVR4VUyjk89bZ+JJVOobgY57+kdVtXpVS9Ialb6l8c+Yj2OsfQw88wivWpivR5+qnyI5GNpXLgaaiEkeI5GW+zwMeESBFTznVjBj9cWMMtIlWtJUryiTEFSWkZVa05L1y9INdRLRD3aY7Srjxcg6V+Bv/AKhN36QceWyt3rOCdIwoA5sfpHoMzgF7dtXqM7tlnbWx88mN0Q0x4nx/4I/GeXPMJkuj/Dmua6U05u4QfP1H2Az9pkdb6lOB9ha1Lhh3qz4X/wCNP921fadJDTGWFFaNJKabKiBR7AYltak0ixUUMMMAR5EAj7Gce62+gxQ1L+23p4Br0gqjQFAHaJjmORI+Z10PKnGaJq21emuCz0KqAHkSyEAfvGq8tZAxtnxneep3idKpbVaVMBSlYvpGeVQDcZ9QROCouju1AQVyrA7EMuxB9czYugnG2srtKofChgtRTnvU2Pe8PAb59JlXpnMjuULI4HMowHuQcQSoCAQcgjIPmDyMcDKy8tdJOitzYkfi6TKCcK4YMjHnsRtn0Mxljo7WklZglJqqh6wBLIpOCSORAnqjjXAre9VFuqS1Aj611Z7reYxOY9cPQRdDXtsuMBRXpIuxA2FVQORG2fQZ8JFar0r6satnQa5SpSrUAA2tDpbSxABxybmORmimkRyP32mYtulNwtk1iz5oMysAQSVAYHCnwUnG3nO3dWnB6K8Epm4Sm61O1rPrVWGCxxnPkoERa8/0XbB1TZuhXDPxN1RogfXVBY/5V7zeH8I/eYG5qJUrP2Q0o1RigHIKWJA+0671KcE79W5bJ0jskJ823bHxiDXWkXAwOQGIsSEqFixIsCNokcREgJiJiOhiBS4lZ9qmAcEHKnyI5SG24gMaaw0OOeeR9QZko16YPMA/EIrmsp5EH2iJS8fE+csLSA5ACLpgVmSRtTlvTGlZRSalI2oy+UjCkQY9qUialMkacjNKIrFvSlarRMzTUZE1CSFazxBSUZXpiojDDKRzE5B0o4F2NQtQB0H9DDvL6Z8R6zv720pXfCqdUYqIrD1AiFecKZzsOecYnV+qrg4QNcOPOnTz/wC7/wBvgzLXHVxZs2pRUQ/5G239CDibHacOFJFRNlVQAPQRmGsgtaTLVmP7JhJFJmkZFakkWpKCvJVeB5+6wOHvb8TuFcf4j9uhHIpU/uCCJgTgEYPodp3DpN1f0+IXf4itcVFHZpTCItPYLk/UwPMknlLPDurjh9LGaLVT51XZv2GB+0zFqPqj6RG5tjQqHL0MBT50z9OfUHI+037MoWVrTorppU0QeSqF/pLQaXETAxTuMHcHY+0iDRwMDR+HdV1tRq3dTJcXFKpSRGC6aS1O8QPM6sYPgAJxW26Q3nD6VxZK/wCXU10qikE6TkqxTfuk7/eenL+/p29M1K9RaaLzZyFA+/j6TzT1jV6dXiFarQp1EpVmDKzq6iqQMPUQMPpz/wA3k3jWdYbhg7xPkJ6b6B8N/DcPoIRhmTtH5Z1VO8f6gfE8+9X/AA83V9b0ACQ9Us53wtOmNTE/bHzPUA25SYmn5hG5iyhYsbmPgNMTEUwgJiGIsICRI6JATETEdCA3ETEfiJiEMIiaZhLo1GvqirrK07W3qKBWamgdqlzu6r9Qbs0B2OwjeAcZesaSaCV7BWZ2Lls9mCCW7MU2JJ3CtkZ3UcgGbKRpSYG741pvVV2qU6KCqp1UKy0mK02qPVesyaNAAXBDAfXnOV03OlFzUpUfyMmp3nUAEluxptV04G5DMiqQNyHYDBwRaMgUjTTmBseIPVbs6jlQ9UuGUlWNGohakQ+dg1RKwGMEimPA5MHF+I1aL1DRc1AlrRKA99Wep+NVc6MamapTooMbk4G5MK2I0ow0phbNq9SnVLM+KdVKONXZl0pU8u6vzFU1KhDMCB+SBgENnJXnE1o0adUhjTamWyc68Ck1RcjxJCke+POESNSkZpTB8V47VNOq1BQDTtqxyXP+OlDtWUp2Z1ooZCGzuSQRtLdfiFWndMGCGn2VirBXY6XubmvR1J3e8M9nkkjZYVkNJi6ZFduVrgZwptqrYyANQemAffBP3mB4Zc1TVyWc/mUk3clTq4fSqlOz8y5LavXEDY9EXRNdqXbKqHU+p2s2Yl1Kd+6oJVULzp/Wy45Yz4zO8QuDSpF1AJ7oUEkBmdgqjIBwSSB5eeBvCJgI5TMJR48zFT2QCFLQtlz2ga6rvRACgaSFZQSdXIny3n4fevVrjOkIaDMqhiWyKijLjA0nHlnxgZgNHq012+4u6EEqo0V3BUVcMVFvWdS2pdJVtG2GAyDvlSsjpcWruUYU1Uaq2AzVkFREp0216Xph1IZnUBlH055EQNpDRwaaza8ZrEXD6EKLVp9mCzBgj29GoSwCEnGtjtk5yBnE2Gm+QDtuAdjkfB8R6yh1xbpVAFRFcBgwDKGAYciM+MxfSXopa8RVVuqerQCEZSVdM89JHsNplgY4GRWrdDOgFvwuo9Sk9SozDSvaaMopOSBpAyT5+k28GRgxcxESZi5keY4GIH5kkhzJZFLCEIBCEIBCEIBCEICYhiLCA3QM5wMkAE43IGcD23P3MxVPhVIXXaBMMF2ILYHdxsM45ekIQMnUpK31KDzG4B2IwRv5iOKA7kDbOPTMSECN7VGUqyIVKhSCqkFV+lSPIZOB6x34df4V5KOQ5IcqPg7jyhCA2raI40uiMNWrDKpGeecHx9ZI9MHmAdwdxncHIPuCAfiJCUAor/COZPIczzPzGJaU1ACogACgAKoACHKgD0O48oQkCXFnTqACoiOAcjUqtg+YzyMBZ09ZfQmsjBfSusjy1c8coQgI3D6R1A06ZDnL9xe+RyLbd75jhZ09GjQujTp06Rp0nbTp5Yx4QhARbGmAAKaAAKAAqgDScrj2O48olOwpKxZaaBm+pgqhm9yNzCEBp4bS0lRTQAliQqhd2GC23iRtnnKfBOE0aSHRTAyxznLeA/iJhCBcqcNot9VKmdgN0U7LkqNxyBJx5Zk4or5CEIC9kPIQ7MeUIQDsx5RdA8oQgGgeUNIhCAukRYQgf//Z

This is not a "Stop" gap. But fixing the gap permanently with this.

any info from users

why not?

Cost.

Have you seen any army, any, even US Army equipping his soldier with Multi Caliber weapons for "conventional" warfare.

 

[MilSpec]

Cost.

It's not as expensive as you think it is, a similar configuration of an AR15 with a Rock river lower can retail anywhere from $800 to 1200, compare to AK platforms retailing around $600 which probably is better in in reciever build quality.

When it comes to lifes depending on it 200 to 400 dollars is all the difference (and I am just talking retail prices). This is not the 80's economy, I am sure Indian Army can easily afford machined receiver platform.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

It's not as expensive as you think it is, a similar configuration of an AR15 with a Rock river lower can retail anywhere from $800 to 1200, compare to AK platforms retailing around $600 which probably is better in in reciever build quality.

When it comes to lifes depending on it 200 to 400 dollars is all the difference (and I am just talking retail prices). This is not the 80's economy, I am sure Indian Army can easily afford machined receiver platform.

Can you describe why Army need high caliber rounds in conventional warfare?

 

[MilSpec]

Have you seen any army, any, even US Army equipping his soldier with Multi Caliber weapons for "conventional" warfare.

I am not sure if you are aware of this, but every M16/AR15 platform is by nature a multicaliber platform where you can switch out the upper to fit a wide range of calibers within reason.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

I am not sure if you are aware of this, but every M16/AR15 platform is by nature a multicaliber platform where you can switch out the upper to fit a wide range of calibers within reason.

But that version is not for whole US Army.

 

[Mike_Brando]

any info from users

why not?

Afaik,the Excalibur has successfully passed the Army trials early this year and is waiting to be inducted in Army as an interim solution replacing the earlier versions INSAS-IA versions till the MCIWS has been fully developed by the end of 2018.

 

[MilSpec]

Can you describe why Army need high caliber rounds in conventional warfare?

absolutely,
Every round that you can get your hands on have thier own advantages and deficiencies, 5.56 has always suffered from poor terminal ballistics, on the other hand 7.62x 39 (AK round) has good terminal ballistics but poor range and bullet drop is too high. 7.62 x 51, 30.06, and 7.62 x54R's again are great full size rifle round but comes with a weight penalty.
6.5 grendel and 6.8 SPC were specifically made to overcome the disadv of the 5.56 , and develop a flat shooting round with good terminal ballistics. then there is also a LM 6.5x47mm cart which I hear is exceptionally flat shooting LR round.

But that version is not for whole US Army.

it is my dear. You can take any AR lower and within reason change the upper, to accommodate, 7.62x39, 6.5 gren, 6.8 spc, .300 AAC blackout etc

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

absolutely,
Every round that you can get your hands on have thier own advantages and deficiencies, 5.56 has always suffered from poor terminal ballistics, on the other hand 7.62x 39 (AK round) has good terminal ballistics but poor range and bullet drop is too high. 7.62 x 51, 30.06, and 7.62 x54R's again are great full size rifle round but comes with a weight penalty.
6.5 grendel and 6.8 SPC were specifically made to overcome the disadv of the 5.56 , and develop a flat shooting round with good terminal ballistics. then there is also a LM 6.8x47mm cart which I hear is exceptionally flat shooting LR round.

Are we going to convert whole army for COIN? Why need to equip whole army with Multi caliber?

There are two schools of thought

1) Use small caliber rounds to injure your enemies, so enemy going to need MedEvac. Mostly use in conventional warfare, like most of units of IA.
But not that small that enemy still remain combat effective.

2) Use large caliber for shoot to kill, mostly use in COIN op.

it is my dear. You can take any AR lower and within reason change the upper, to accommodate, 7.62x39, 6.5 gren, 6.8 spc, .300 AAC blackout etc

Yes, any rifle albeit whole army armed with Multi caliber barrels.

 

[MilSpec]

Are we going to convert whole army for COIN? Why need to equip whole army with Multi caliber?

There are two schools of thought

1) Use small caliber rounds to injure your enemies, so enemy going to need MedEvac. Mostly use in conventional warfare, like most of units of IA.
But not that small that enemy still remain combat effective.

2) Use large caliber for shoot to kill, mostly use in COIN op.


Yes, any rifle albeit whole army armed with Multi caliber barrels.

It will go in that direction pretty soon though.

And right tool for the right job, If one platform can be used for battle, coin etc, then why not, with MCIWS your are consolidating platforms, that is the logic. IDF uses 9mm conv kits on their tavors instead of making more UZI's.

For US army, Small arms have been like the arty issue in India. It is overly complicated, it is even reeling with difficulty in switching from M9 to a new platform despite a large section of the force complaining about it.

Yes, any rifle albeit whole army armed with Multi caliber barrels.

That's the thing, it can switch whenever it needs to without having to make the entire rifle from scratch by changing the upper, and US army has tested both the LM 6.5x47 and the 6.8SPC in combat. The next platorms SCAR and ACR both were designed to be MCS's.

Next I am not proposing every infantry man to lug around three barrels all the time. Garrisons can make the conversions during issue, Spec ops can run with a extra barrel if it needs to.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

It will go in that direction pretty soon though.

And right tool for the right job, If one platform can be used for battle, coin etc, then why not, with MCIWS your are consolidating platforms, that is the logic. IDF uses 9mm conv kits on their tavors.

This is physically, practically, theoretically, morally impossible.

it also bring down the moral of Army when you convert whole Army into COIN. For that also require special training. This is impossible to deploy any soldier for COIN. This is what happen with Pak Fauj, and atleast for next 10 years Pak Army incapable for any conventional war with India.

Further, When you deploy whole army for internal security & equipping for it, that means India is under serious threat which still atleast I am not able to see.

On other note, as you stated it may cost $400 more. Which means $400 million more to equip whole army, which is unnecessary. Why not saving that money and using it for buying Field Artillery?

That's the thing, it can switch whenever it needs to without having to make the entire rifle from scratch by changing the upper, and US army has tested both the LM 6.5x47 and the 6.8SPC in combat. The next platorms SCAR and ACR both were designed to be MCS's.

Next I am not proposing every infantry man to lug around three barrels all the time. Garrisons can make the conversions during issue, Spec ops can run with a extra barrel if it needs to.

Thats why I was saying to equip the SOF, and soldiers that is deployed for COIN like in state of J&K, NE & Maoist.

 

[MilSpec]

This is physically, practically, theoretically, morally impossible.

it also bring down the moral of Army when you convert whole Army into COIN. For that also require special training. This is impossible to deploy any soldier for COIN. This is what happen with Pak Fauj, and atleast for next 10 years Pak Army incapable for any conventional war with India.

Further, When you deploy whole army for internal security & equipping for it, that means India is under serious threat which still atleast I am not able to see.

On other note, as you stated it may cost $400 more. Which means $400 million more to equip whole army, which is unnecessary. Why not saving that money and using it for buying Field Artillery?


Thats why I was saying to equip the SOF, and soldiers that is deployed for COIN like in state of J&K, NE & Maoist.

First: 400 million is chum change for equipment that will last you for 10-15 years in combat. especially for Indian Army which is not cash strapped in any case.

Next, I can tell you categorically that getting a good accurate modular combat system doesn;t mean changing the ARMY into a COIN contingent.

I don't understand where deployment question comes when we are discussing changing a platform. No one ever said anything about it. So let me repeat this again.

6.5 Grendel or a 6.8spc is great intermediate range, flat shooting cartridge- suitable for accurate engagement upto 600 yards and can even engage upto 800 yards.

5.56 is a great flat shooting caliber capable of deployment against insurgents and targets without Body Armor.

7.62 is an amazing 250 yard engagement system.

A unit outfitted with 6.5 grendel can do either of the job. When the same system can be outfitted with a 5.56 or 7.62 of required. Now you can issue them as either of the three calibers and have the ability to switch caliber if you chose to, you dont have to if you dont need to.

But what you have done now is - instead of having to contend with say a Insas, AKM and a MCIWS, their trigger groups, barel lugs, springs, gas pistons, furniture, accesories and barrels you can consolidate the platform to use just one lower and three uppers with the same action block same, gas piston, same trigger group, same rails, .simplifying your logistics, training and spares.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Afaik,the Excalibur has successfully passed the Army trials early this year and is waiting to be inducted in Army as an interim solution replacing the earlier versions INSAS-IA versions till the MCIWS has been fully developed by the end of 2018

"End of 2018" means its never going to happen.

 

[GURU DUTT]

"End of 2018" means its never going to happen.

dont worry even till then we have INSAS & now Excalibur + not going to ask your real nation to fund it