Ex general released from prison

[NooriNuth]

Uncle Sam never leaves their loyal dog behind.
Be it TTP terrorists or a military officer.
All Judiciary is in Uncle Sam's pocket.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Is there any doubt left?

Absolutely Not!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Late COAS Gen asif nawaz janjua was a sword of honor.
This shows you know nothing you are just here to argue doesn't matter how wrong and illogical you are.

out of how many army chiefs?
sorry

 

[PanzerKiel]

Late COAS Gen asif nawaz janjua was a sword of honor.
This shows you know nothing you are just here to argue doesn't matter how wrong and illogical you are.

He was a graduate of RMA Sandhurst. @Irfan Baloch was referring to PMA Sword of Honors.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

He was a graduate of RMA Sandhurst. @Irfan Baloch was referring to PMA Sword of Honors.

I admit I didn't bother fact checking every COAS. because that's not the point it's not a sire shot given thing.
that point missed that genious very safely. he did a wiki search to pull it out but that's all.

since its not common talked about fact.
Gen Karamat I know is very good writer as well.

look at the quality of posts by the way. swearing and sour one liners.

 

[SecularNationalist]

out of how many army chiefs?
sorry

Oh asif nawaz wasn't army chief? He was havaldar asif nawaz?

out of how many army chiefs?
sorry

He was a graduate of RMA Sandhurst. @Irfan Baloch was referring to PMA Sword of Honors.

Perfect illustration of arguing for the sake of arguing

 

[Irfan Baloch]

He was a graduate of RMA Sandhurst. @Irfan Baloch was referring to PMA Sword of Honor

brick wall might get it.
his follow up posts confirm the matter is hopeless.

 

[SQ8]

Oh asif nawaz wasn't army chief? He was havaldar asif nawaz?




Perfect illustration of arguing for the sake of arguing

That may apply to you - a plain distinction has been made that the PMA sword of honor never made it to chief.

Doesn’t make that argument incorrect.

 

[SQ8]

Khan saaab, please

his case is different. general or no general . there is no leniency. generals sons are drummed out of PMA on the last day for misconduct. rank is no protection if the charges are real.
the media reporting is pathetic. he was punished for a policy violation for writing an article and participating in a meeting with international think tank. his case is in no way related to the other two guys.

how do I know? a friends son is Lt col in JAGs branch and has dealt with the case it was filed for review few times but previous leadership didn't allow it. as far as I know he fell off with Gen Bajwa and his carelessness gave the vengeful Gen Bajwa an opportunity.
do Watch Haider Mehdis' (former army officer now in Canada) blogs he will tell you in detail how mean spirited vengeful Gen Bajwa is because he and his family has personally suffered Gen Bajwa revenge.



there are no angels in GHQ but we must put hatred aside and criticize only where the criticism is valid.

DM me and we can talk over it in detail.

Btw - I posted that story of how former USAF generals are under scrutiny because they supposedly were pushing business towards silkway and were now offered positions by silkway.

So at the most based on what you are stating the general may be guilty of is not following procedures before taking up another job.

Gen B is another matter and is best left to the almighty to fix since no one else can.

Unfortunately, @TaimiKhan isnt entirely wrong in his perception of generals but that is also true for generalization of wall street billionaires - simply because the cultural norm produces a xyz product and while there are exceptions most succumb to basically following the flock.

Many officers I know who are of the exception to the “culture” either retired at Col or Brig and moved on or at most Major General. They just can’t fit in with the boys club as well as the rest.

So if anything, it will take a few generations and cultural input rather than isolation to change the nature of the graduate.

To reiterate , “attitude” issues prevail in institutions be it PMA , West Point, Dehradun or Yale university. Those are fixed by whistleblowers and reformers and as public scrutiny increases it leads to generally betterment. The PMA that produced Gen B isn’t the one that produced the new crop of captains - then whatever experiences Gen B went through shaped him incl staff college and so on.

As these institutions and their culture gets exposed, and if intellectuals exist with both knowledge and agency to highlight the problems and suggest corrections this can be done. A certain US officer school had a Christian supremacy culture emerging which was highlighted by whistleblowers and qualified civilians on the Us house side took measures to fix it.
Unfortunately for Pakistan, most if not all of the political class are crass landlords or barely matriculated street savvy but generally ignorant self serving weasels - this allows the military to not have the checks and balanced it deserves and whether by design by dictatorships or otherwise - it perpetuates the cycle we see today

 

[Goritoes]

don't trivialise faith.
stay within limits when mocking.

Give this warning to that person who started, I don't care. I am just mocking the mentality of people. Don't be a snow flake.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Btw - I posted that story of how former USAF generals are under scrutiny because they supposedly were pushing business towards silkway and were now offered positions by silkway.

So at the most based on what you are stating the general may be guilty of is not following procedures before taking up another job.

Gen B is another matter and is best left to the almighty to fix since no one else can.

Unfortunately, @TaimiKhan isnt entirely wrong in his perception of generals but that is also true for generalization of wall street billionaires - simply because the cultural norm produces a xyz product and while there are exceptions most succumb to basically following the flock.

this was never the disagreement. I am against guilty by association method. my point of view is that criticism must be on the relevant and factual reasons. otherwise it becomes a hateful rant. no matter how justified but not a fact but a rant. this said officer did not spy for another country. lumping him together with other s because he is a "general" just betrays bias /hatred and kills any scope for a civilized debate.

Many officers I know who are of the exception to the “culture” either retired at Col or Brig and moved on or at most Major General. They just can’t fit in with the boys club as well as the rest.

from some experience I know and agree with what you are saying, but still I will say the army rewards good officers.,I have an example of a a close relation of mine who is a brigadier, he is for sure going to make it to Maj General if not Lt Gen but even if he doesnt.. he will be one of the distinguished Brigadiers. few things that I know about him is he was a position holder in PMA, staff courses in Pak and USA, company commander in PMA, taught in Staff college Quetta, war studies , UN back to back 3 deployments as major and colonel, led his unit in war on terror under Gen Tariq Khan, in Siachin as major established new posts and has killed Indians along LOC and TTP personally . has shared pictures he taken personally from his phone . is loved by his unit jawans, fought and led from the front and has a diehard following by his parent unit. in short he is a good career officer who is academically very sound and has proven himself on the field in both national and foreign deployments , his pictures have been shared many times on the forum few years ago but I kept quiet and didnt disclose my relation. he might be in the field again if a big can of whoop *** is opened on the TTP.

So if anything, it will take a few generations and cultural input rather than isolation to change the nature of the graduate.

To reiterate , “attitude” issues prevail in institutions be it PMA , West Point, Dehradun or Yale university. Those are fixed by whistleblowers and reformers and as public scrutiny increases it leads to generally betterment. The PMA that produced Gen B isn’t the one that produced the new crop of captains - then whatever experiences Gen B went through shaped him incl staff college and so on.

no disagreement there.

As these institutions and their culture gets exposed, and if intellectuals exist with both knowledge and agency to highlight the problems and suggest corrections this can be done. A certain US officer school had a Christian supremacy culture emerging which was highlighted by whistleblowers and qualified civilians on the Us house side took measures to fix it.
Unfortunately for Pakistan, most if not all of the political class are crass landlords or barely matriculated street savvy but generally ignorant self serving weasels - this allows the military to not have the checks and balanced it deserves and whether by design by dictatorships or otherwise - it perpetuates the cycle we see today

watch the movie Pentagon wars about the story of Bradley IFV, there are many similarities to our own army as well. to another post I have already stated below

our military code of conduct is based on the British military. just keep in mind that military men no matter how disciplined and restricted and bound by code , are human beings (I will come back to that later), they come from the same pool of people that makes up our country. there is no online copy available to share it.

there is a saying (in army) that we eat our own. to climb the ladder or settle scores the army men do everything and nothing is off the table as long as that person can get away with it.
in war we are all brothers but in peace we will use every trick of trade to use the face of a person to climb to the next level.

elite boys club story maybe true but that same institution drums out sons and relatives of very powerful generals on conduct unbecoming of an officer and on another hand . there maybe nepotism suggested by unexplained high concentration of generals from some one village in Punjab but then again a son of a JCO also became the army chief

 

[khansaheeb]

The spying General will flee to his owners in America, while Pak Army will receive some perks, hotel stays and dollars for this service.

Mother Pakistan has such a children who rule over her.

In a corrupt society fist full of dollars is the way.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Give this warning to that person who started, I don't care. I am just mocking the mentality of people. Don't be a snow flake.

Dont be a sheep
I say again, stay within limits so that people of opposing PoV still find room to engage with you.
it might be fine in a private gathering. but its a public forum and a little self control is in order.

@Irfan Baloch I understand, sir, that the truth is painful, and I get why you're frustrated. Imagine if the people of Pakistan had the ability to give a negative rating to what the Pakistan Army is doing to them and to this country—you'd be shocked.

Enjoy your power to put negative stickers on patriotic Pakistanis. I hope you're loving it.

I have removed all negative ratings applied by me since I was involved in the discussion here. let me know if any still remains and quote that to me. and I will remove it.

I cant stress enough that we need to be mindful of international audience as well as to those who are just visiting the forum. just relax and review and tone down your responses if they or delete them altogether if possible . I do that a lot and sometimes delete and edit my own posts where I realize that the emotions are getting the better of me.

 

[Goritoes]

Dont be a sheep
I say again, stay within limits so that people of opposing PoV still find room to engage with you.
it might be fine in a private gathering. but its a public forum and a little self control is in order.

You are mad because I called you out over your stupid IK which leg gets shot Thread, and now just upsets that someone can call your stupid conspiracy theories. If you have nothing better to add than stop quoting, its an open forum where are allowed to use Sarcasm to counter the stupid narrative, you disagree with me than its your problem not mine.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You are mad because I called you out over your stupid IK which leg gets shot Thread, and now just upsets that someone can call your stupid conspiracy theories. If you have nothing better to add than stop quoting, its an open forum where are allowed to use Sarcasm to counter the stupid narrative, you disagree with me than its your problem not mine.

trust me. NO. haha I dont take things that seriously specially when I have been dealing with you guys for well over `10 years. I dont even remember you calling me stupid.
I never claim to be a smartass. so thanks for educating me, and dont hold any grudge ok?
if you think any of my moderation is unjustified then raise it with out admin and you will be heard fairly.

re that leg thread (although on the face of it it looked on the nonserious side) I asked for clarification and there was someone who actually played and explained the video flipping it. so shout out to him. I knew already that Imran Khan is everything but not stupid and cant be too careless in faking it . but like I explained in that thread. but I am hassled by my former colleagues and friends who are not all PTI fanclub and they send me over videos and tell me to explain about these videos,


that aside, this is a general request to you and other PTI blowhards to please calm down. because I will not ask again and remove and moderate as per our forum rules.
thanks

You are mad because I called you out over your stupid IK which leg gets shot Thread

if I was that petty then I wont have survived that long. I have been shot at and faced fatal danger many times in my life. those words of yours I already forgot because I didn't care about them